Chinese Signs

[whome?]

Can you explain the poetry in the handicapped stall sign I saw that read "toilet for deformed man"

 

I have also seen the handicapped stall sign say "for the weak". More funny is the usually the weak toilet is a western style sit down toilet.

[whome?]

It is interesting the difference between "Keep Off the Grass" and the ways you are finding in China. The KOG is an order, with an underlying threat, whereas the signs in the pictures are asking for cooperation. Talk about context! Just imagine the whole hidden culture involved in that contrast. Which shows more respect for the individual? Of course what might happen to you for actually walking on the grass is another question.

 

While we were visiting the area, there were at least a half-dozen families having lunch on the grass. No-one bothered them. It does seem however, that most everyone has respect for authority in China. It's interesting to note, that it doesn't seem that this respect is rooted in fear, but is deeply embedded in their culture.

 

Do you think this extends to the traffic police?

 

I always thought, and still do, that the translations from chinese to english for "keep of the grass" was due to bad translations. Everytime I see a sign like this and ask my wife what it means she says "keep off the grass". When I ask her why they have the crazy english she says they used a bad translator.

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

Can you explain the poetry in the handicapped stall sign I saw that read "toilet for deformed man"

 

I have also seen the handicapped stall sign say "for the weak". More funny is the usually the weak toilet is a western style sit down toilet.

 

Chinese language is a pictorial language that is rooted in poetic statements that are linked to its culture. When you view that Chinese language as a High Context expression of thought, you can better see the reasons why they choose to express themselves in a certain manner. Of course, you will never see a sign in the US that refers to handicapped people as being "weak," as displaying such a sign is neither culturally acceptable, and further it would likely put the one displaying it in the cross hairs of a lawsuit.

[pkfops]

As a writer, I am beginning to take more notice of signs and how people communicate in China. I tossed around the idea of writing a book during recent weeks, in which I would discuss the many differences between a High Context Culture like China, versus a Low Context Culture like America.

 

Americans use words and phrases to convey thoughts. The better you articulate your thoughts with words, the better you can be understood. China on the other hand, is a High Context Culture, where most everything is implied in the culture, which often leaves those who are unfamiliar with the culture at a real loss for understanding.

 

Most of us have seen funny signs in China, that have been translated into English. The translation process often brings laughs and smiles from Westerners, as many of the cultural aspects of the language simply cannot be translated, or would take several paragraphs to get the real thought across. As I learn more about Chinese culture and language, it is becoming more clear why some of these signs translate the way they do. Chinese people in general, have a hard time being direct in thought and expression compared to their Western counterparts. For us, if we don't want someone to walk on our grass, we may place a sign stating, "Keep Off the Grass."

 

Not so in China. Here are a few examples of signs I've been capturing lately:

 

http://i44.tinypic.com/1r4s3a.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/17df9v.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/2zfiyc6.jpg

 

As you can see, they have gone to great lengths in the Chinese language to convey that the grass is beautiful, and took a lot of work to make it that way. You should therefore be careful to take care of it also, out of respect. Surely my words are unable to convey the exact meaning and cultural aspect, but suffice it to say, the Chinese are much more poetic in their expressions.

 

Course, you must keep in mind that it's winter now when I took these pictures, so the grass isn't too green right now...

 

One thing I've noticed in may travels to parks, zoos, temples ECT is the absence of powered equipment by the landscapers. All work seems to be done by hand with great care.

[Robert S.]

Can you explain the poetry in the handicapped stall sign I saw that read "toilet for deformed man"

 

I have also seen the handicapped stall sign say "for the weak". More funny is the usually the weak toilet is a western style sit down toilet.

 

Chinese language is a pictorial language that is rooted in poetic statements that are linked to its culture. When you view that Chinese language as a High Context expression of thought, you can better see the reasons why they choose to express themselves in a certain manner. Of course, you will never see a sign in the US that refers to handicapped people as being "weak," as displaying such a sign is neither culturally acceptable, and further it would likely put the one displaying it in the cross hairs of a lawsuit.

Nice try at bringing your thread back on topic.

 

Have you read The Dream of the Red Chamber? I borrowed it from Mick's wife a few years ago and was never able to get beyond the first page until recently I opened it up randomly and read a passage that sank a deep hook into me, I went back to the beginning, and read the book, what a great experience. So, I feel I have an inkling of understanding what you are describing. I would be interested to hear more of your thoughts about the language being "rooted in poetic statements." I would guess very few Westerners have the least idea of the sublimity of what you are talking about. I absolutely love the fact that the character "hao" comes from an ideogram of a mother and child.

[whome?]

Can you explain the poetry in the handicapped stall sign I saw that read "toilet for deformed man"

 

I have also seen the handicapped stall sign say "for the weak". More funny is the usually the weak toilet is a western style sit down toilet.

 

Chinese language is a pictorial language that is rooted in poetic statements that are linked to its culture. When you view that Chinese language as a High Context expression of thought, you can better see the reasons why they choose to express themselves in a certain manner. Of course, you will never see a sign in the US that refers to handicapped people as being "weak," as displaying such a sign is neither culturally acceptable, and further it would likely put the one displaying it in the cross hairs of a lawsuit.

 

So how is saying for the "weak" a more poetic way than saying "handicapped"? I can understand what you are saying but I have seen enough englsih language menus to suspect that the translation is part of the problem too.

 

It makes sense to me to use the word weak because a handicapped or infirmed person is just that compared to a healthly person. The translater has no way to know that using weak is not PC.

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

So how is saying for the "weak" a more poetic way than saying "handicapped"? I can understand what you are saying but I have seen enough englsih language menus to suspect that the translation is part of the problem too.

 

It makes sense to me to use the word weak because a handicapped or infirmed person is just that compared to a healthly person. The translater has no way to know that using weak is not PC.

 

One thing we all must be careful about is an English translation of Chinese words and expressions.

 

First, let me say, that I in no way am attempting to use the short English translations of a few signs to convey an across the board illustration of the vast differences between a High Context and Low Context culture. The Chinese language and culture is much too complex to reduce to a few snippets, signs, or posts on a Web site.

 

People will write what they will, and who is to know what is in the writer's mind except the writer? On rare occasions, we may be able to ask the writer personally to elaborate, but in most cases we are left to trying to make that determination ourselves. Often times we choose wrong.

 

As a writer for a large technical firm in Nanjing, it's my daily task to interact with Chinese software design engineers. In meeting with them, I try to learn not only the content of what they try to say, but the context and background. Often times I get confused because of mispronounced words, only to later learn that they meant "correct," instead of "cracked." I've found that with my wife's help, and the help of my Chinese colleagues, that I am much better able to understand the context of general and specific communication in China.

 

As Americans, we are keyed into written and verbal communication. And what complicates it, is that methods of communication change virtually every generation.

 

There is a deep threaded cultural aspect to the Chinese language, that I personally find a bit overwhelming. After all, we're talking of a culture that's thousands of years old. What has helped make it a little more understandable are authors like Edward T. Hall, who wrote the book "Beyond Culture." Hall, is credited with being the first to introduce the concept of High Context and Low Context cultures. You should try to find a copy.

[Appaullo]

When I was in Wuhan with my Wife crossing the Bridge over the Yangtze River I noticed a traffic cop. A man riding a motorcycle was driving between cars, weaving in and out. The cop pointed at him and looked back at traffic, never again turning to look at the motorcycle rider, who turned his bike off, dismounted, walked it to the sidewalk and sat down. Before we left sight of the cop he got 2 more motorcycle riders the same way. With a simple point of the finger. No threat, he never bothered to check to make sure they pulled off, he just KNEW that they had. And they had indeed, the three of them sitting on the side of the road/bridge waiting. I was dumbstruck, and impressed at the same time.

 

Appaullo

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

When I was in Wuhan with my Wife crossing the Bridge over the Yangtze River I noticed a traffic cop. A man riding a motorcycle was driving between cars, weaving in and out. The cop pointed at him and looked back at traffic, never again turning to look at the motorcycle rider, who turned his bike off, dismounted, walked it to the sidewalk and sat down. Before we left sight of the cop he got 2 more motorcycle riders the same way. With a simple point of the finger. No threat, he never bothered to check to make sure they pulled off, he just KNEW that they had. And they had indeed, the three of them sitting on the side of the road/bridge waiting. I was dumbstruck, and impressed at the same time.

 

Appaullo

 

Great story! I've noticed the same thing in larger cities of China. My wife tells me that while you don't see many police on the streets of China, that most laws are enforced using cameras. It's the responsibility of the driver to check the internet to see whether they've received a citation, and then take care of it. There is no other notification to the driver, except a posting on the internet. I'm guessing that anyone that fails to stop for a traffic cop on the street, will be captured on film, and have hell to pay later...

 

[Corbin]

When I was in Wuhan with my Wife crossing the Bridge over the Yangtze River I noticed a traffic cop. A man riding a motorcycle was driving between cars, weaving in and out. The cop pointed at him and looked back at traffic, never again turning to look at the motorcycle rider, who turned his bike off, dismounted, walked it to the sidewalk and sat down. Before we left sight of the cop he got 2 more motorcycle riders the same way. With a simple point of the finger. No threat, he never bothered to check to make sure they pulled off, he just KNEW that they had. And they had indeed, the three of them sitting on the side of the road/bridge waiting. I was dumbstruck, and impressed at the same time.

 

Appaullo

 

Great story! I've noticed the same thing in larger cities of China. My wife tells me that while you don't see many police on the streets of China, that most laws are enforced using cameras. It's the responsibility of the driver to check the internet to see whether they've received a citation, and then take care of it. There is no other notification to the driver, except a posting on the internet. I'm guessing that anyone that fails to stop for a traffic cop on the street, will be captured on film, and have hell to pay later...

 

Also take in to a account that over there to have a drivers license it is more costly I believe and I am sure harder to get. So I'm sure when you are told to pull over you do so the punishment will not be any worse and will have a better chance of keeping that license. Now I could also be off base here.....

[whome?]

Interesting article from China Daily on this subject;

 

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2009-06...t_8292581_2.htm

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

Interesting article from China Daily on this subject;

 

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2009-06...t_8292581_2.htm

 

 

There are quite a few Chinese people that are hurt or even insulted by the references Westerners make to Chinglish. All I can say is that they don't much like us mangling their language, and have the same difficulty understanding when we try to speak.

 

Radtke, meanwhile, accepts that some Chinglish arises from a "cha bu duo" - or "more or less" - approach to translation.

 

"But it'd be very shortsighted to say Chinglish exists because people don't care - that's preposterous," he says. "I smell a certain arrogance behind such an assumption."

 

So, what now? Are we supposed to always be kindly and quietly amused when Chinese people mangle English in signs? I don't think bashing Chinese people over their heads with error after error is a kind approach, but if their going to take the time to write something in English, then they should take the time to find someone to edit the content for them. But hey, that's what they're paying me to do now.

 

I see a lot of laziness on the Chinese part that allows it to continue. If they cared more, they would get it right. There is middle ground though. Westerners should be respectful of the Chinese people that make an effort, but that acceptance needn't go so far as to make them feel like getting it wrong, is okay.

[dnoblett]

Sometimes I encounter English signs that don't make sense.

 

For example when I drove over the road, I use to see these only in TX.

 

http://www.centerlinesupply.com/store_images/144354da59df61_t.jpg

 

I always though "I will be extra careful and NOT try to crash because the guardrail is damaged and wont help". Or "Thanks for the warning, I will try not to have an accident there."

[Bert]

One thing I don't get is how the English subtitles on English speaking movies get so fowled up. They don't have to translate anything, just put the word that is said. I imagine that a lot of Chinese buy the English speaking movies to improve their English, but it is so incomprehensible a lot of times, that it is worse than useless. My fiancee always asks me if the English subtitles are good or not. The ones that are fowled up are the pirated movies for which English subtitles have been added.

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

One thing I don't get is how the English subtitles on English speaking movies get so fowled up. They don't have to translate anything, just put the word that is said. I imagine that a lot of Chinese buy the English speaking movies to improve their English, but it is so incomprehensible a lot of times, that it is worse than useless. My fiancee always asks me if the English subtitles are good or not. The ones that are fowled up are the pirated movies for which English subtitles have been added.

 

Many of the subtitled movies are translated by volunteers. Just a group of students doing it in their spare time to help them learn English:

 

Found in translation: China's volunteer online army

 

SHANGHAI, China (CNN) -- On Saturday at 10 a.m. it's show time for Brenda Zhang and her subtitle team. They roll out of bed, meet each other online and chat, while their modems download the latest episode of "Prison Break," which just aired half a world away on Friday night in America.

 

Once they have the show on their hard drives, the team spends the rest of the day creating subtitles for it in Chinese before putting it back online for other fans to watch.

 

Dozens of such groups exist in China. They are voluntary and are translating a mix of media, from books and magazines to games, TV shows and movies. The translated products are for an audience whose primary means of accessing foreign entertainment is the Internet.

 

The members of these online translations groups participate out of a desire to improve their English. For many there is also a passionate interest in overseas content and a desire to make it accessible to other Chinese people.

 

"This is a way to fulfill your life and do something you are interested in," said Zhang, a 24-year-old who translates for a team that calls themselves "Showfa."

 

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/BUSINESS/06/15...late/index.html