Do I keep quiet or do I spill the beans?

[Jeikun]

non of our business i think, Dennis and family can do what they like. they will live with the future of this.

 

is Al cfl member yet Dennis ?

 

 

I would agree to it being none of our business as well, Jin. Except that Dennis asked for input, and he knows as well as I do that if you air something here, you get plenty of input whether you ask for it or not. So to use a popular English idiom "He asked for it"

[Guest jin979]

non of our business i think, Dennis and family can do what they like. they will live with the future of this.

 

is Al cfl member yet Dennis ?

 

 

I would agree to it being none of our business as well, Jin. Except that Dennis asked for input, and he knows as well as I do that if you air something here, you get plenty of input whether you ask for it or not. So to use a popular English idiom "He asked for it"

 

so im sure he tell him to join CFL as he has many things to learn for all things, right ?

[Jeikun]

non of our business i think, Dennis and family can do what they like. they will live with the future of this.

 

is Al cfl member yet Dennis ?

 

 

I would agree to it being none of our business as well, Jin. Except that Dennis asked for input, and he knows as well as I do that if you air something here, you get plenty of input whether you ask for it or not. So to use a popular English idiom "He asked for it"

 

so im sure he tell him to join CFL as he has many things to learn for all things, right ?

 

 

As long as he is ok with him reading this thread I would guess that if he doesn't plan on telling him about the matchmaking switch, then he won't tell him to join candle either, at least until after he's met the girl. Since reading this thread would give everything away.

[Guest jin979]

non of our business i think, Dennis and family can do what they like. they will live with the future of this.

 

is Al cfl member yet Dennis ?

 

 

I would agree to it being none of our business as well, Jin. Except that Dennis asked for input, and he knows as well as I do that if you air something here, you get plenty of input whether you ask for it or not. So to use a popular English idiom "He asked for it"

 

so im sure he tell him to join CFL as he has many things to learn for all things, right ?

 

 

As long as he is ok with him reading this thread I would guess that if he doesn't plan on telling him about the matchmaking switch, then he won't tell him to join candle either, at least until after he's met the girl. Since reading this thread would give everything away.

 

oh the games they plays

[Guest Dylan W]

oh the games they plays

Sooner or later, Al is going to (and have to) join CFL and find this topic. The only question is... when? B)

[georgeandli]

Conclusions were leaping all over IMHO. Just to recap, Dennis wanted advice what to tell Al. Al wanted to know what to expect when he goes to China. Al has been working through a translator. There hasn't been any first hand communication here yet. Is that about what it boils down to, Dennis? The fact that it's family has nothing to do with it. There is no visa fraud. If and when a visa is applied for, Al and whoever better make sure not to start the clock on the relationship till after they meet. This will be the blindest of blind dates. As a sidebar I must be a bigger lecher than Al cause there's a wider age difference tween Li and I. Matchmaking has been a profession in China for centuries.

[amberjack1234]

georgeandli: That is a fact that matchmaking has in deed been going on for centuries and has and is still a profession. You know old dummy me never thought about that so it would be something that an older Chinese lady (matchmaker) would consider not only her profession but her duty to family members to find suitable mates tor their relatives as they are seen as all wise and all knowing. Probably having little knowledge about American customs and laws plays into this thing as well.

 

There is that cultural difference again.

 

I don't know if ole Dennis can work it from that angle and tell his sister-in-law the differences in our customs. That this type of matchmaking is not considered in America. We Americans tend to fall in love then get married and some Chinese get married to what they consider a good catch and if they fall in love then that is a plus. I am sure that all of us have read the ad by these young ladies. The first requirement is that their prospective husband have a good education and well financially situated.

 

I don't consider the age difference all that much of an issue. You know that I wouldn't because there is an age difference gap between my wife and I. I do on the other hand, consider a 22 yo Chinese lady a little young for marriage. I have heard and seen it written many times that Chines girls mature more slowly that their American counterparts. About 5-7 years difference. The reason being that mama and baba do everything for most of them. They don't have much responsibility and all they do is study, study, study so that they can get a good job and have a better life. So they don't have much time for socializing with boys until they get out of collage. I think that this is changing now quite a bit but I don't know where this young lady fits in there. Old or new way of thinking and doing things.

 

I will say this "my wife was 27 yo when I married her and she was quite immature even for that age".

 

Larry

Edited January 24, 2009 by amberjack1234 (see edit history)

[IllinoisDave]

The Chinese as a society don't hold a monopoly on helping to "find" suitable mates for their children. In fact, stacked up against some other cultures out there, they're downright subtle.

 

Screaming fraud in a crowded visa office is a wee bit premature IMHO. Was it fraud because I met my now-wife through an online agency whose sole purpose is to "find" mates for Chinese women? Was it fraud for the high percentage of members here who met their fiancees/wives in a similar manner?

 

After all, these two haven't even met yet, let alone filed for any type of visa. Maybe they won't click at all. Or maybe Al will be so pissed he hops right back on a plane to kick Dennis' ass. Or maybe, just maybe, they'll decide to give a relationship a try and see what happens. Hopefully that process would involve some time to get to know each other. But it's up to them. I don't thinks it's our place to decide for them that a short courtship constitutes visa fraud. Especially when many here are/were in the same boat.

 

Having said that, I do hope that if Al and this lady do decide to pursue something they give themselves the best chance possible of success. Which would most likely mean, as others have suggested, giving it a year or more, lots of trips and communication etc.

 

I have no doubt that if Al comes back a happy camper for having met this gal, one of the first things Dennis will tell him is to join Candle. Then he'll have access to the same information and advice the rest of us have been lucky enough to enjoy. And he can read this thread and him and Dennis can have a big laugh over it.

[Jeikun]

As a sidebar I must be a bigger lecher than Al cause there's a wider age difference tween Li and I. Matchmaking has been a profession in China for centuries.

 

 

It's not just age difference. I'm aware of other members with the same age difference who have been married for years, and are very happy. As another member pointed out, it's ratio.

 

When I was 28, I dated a 20 year old girl who (despite not being able to drink) was pretty much on the same level as me (divorced and starting over). BUT if I had met her when I was 22 and she was 14... it would have been a different (and much less legal) situation.

 

Anyway, I'm almost sorry I made the comment, because I know Dennis only wanted input about his decision to tell Al, or not. I just got so shocked at a 22 year old meeting a 45 year old blind, I couldn't stop myself from commenting.

[Guest jin979]

georgeandli: That is a fact that matchmaking has in deed been going on for centuries and has and is still a profession. You know old dummy me never thought about that so it would be something that an older Chinese lady (matchmaker) would consider not only her profession but her duty to family members to find suitable mates tor their relatives as they are seen as all wise and all knowing. Probably having little knowledge about American customs and laws plays into this thing as well.

 

There is that cultural difference again.

 

I don't know if ole Dennis can work it from that angle and tell his sister-in-law the differences in our customs. That this type of matchmaking is not considered in America. We Americans tend to fall in love then get married and some Chinese get married to what they consider a good catch and if they fall in love then that is a plus. I am sure that all of us have read the ad by these young ladies. The first requirement is that their prospective husband have a good education and well financially situated.

 

I don't consider the age difference all that much of an issue. You know that I wouldn't because there is an age difference gap between my wife and I. I do on the other hand, consider a 22 yo Chinese lady a little young for marriage. I have heard and seen it written many times that Chines girls mature more slowly that their American counterparts. About 5-7 years difference. The reason being that mama and baba do everything for most of them. They don't have much responsibility and all they do is study, study, study so that they can get a good job and have a better life. So they don't have much time for socializing with boys until they get out of collage. I think that this is changing now quite a bit but I don't know where this young lady fits in there. Old or new way of thinking and doing things.

 

I will say this "my wife was 27 yo when I married her and she was quite immature even for that age".

 

Larry

 

 

umm...... very generalised I started work at 15 in factory, never went to college.

maybe you talk about rich chinese I think

 

having started work in steel factory at 15 and lived and paid my life since, thinking maybe i matured (and most of my girl friends the same) much quicker than USA college girls. I was driving truck at 17 across china.

 

yes chinese parents care for their children within their means, but big difference if parents are rich business people in HK or factory worker in Kunming

 

many of my school friend girls like me never finish high school as could not afford it (parents need to spend on brother) so we work instead.

 

maturity comes earlier for most chinese women

[david_dawei]

except... you assume GUZ is somehow informed of these discrete details... who exactly is going to tell GUZ so clearly the details when AL is not told?

 

Doesn't anyone get it?

 

 

If I remember correctly, both you and I, David, were required to offer certain items of "evidence" for our fiancees for their interviews. While ALL the details won't come out (like not knowing she wasn't the girl he was originally planning to meet) unless he just wanted to shoot himself in the foot... some like:

 

Age (actually generation) Gap - birth certificates, anyone?

Language Barrier - Let's see someone try to fake this at the interview

Beginning and Evolution of the relationship - Can be lied on (but then that WOULD be fraud)

 

Not saying it means they would definately be turned down... hey maybe they won't file for a year, and she will learn English in that time, he will visit her 6 times, and they will have thousands of emails and phone logs, right? But "better" couples have been turned away for far less.

 

So yeah, I DO "get it", David. Do you?

sorry... I realize that I am talking a metaphor on a much different level than what is being discussed. This is not about AL nor GUZ... but we like to chop up life into small discrete issues which allows us to swallow some event and move one. In Dennis's case, the piece was too big to swallow...

 

As he considers it more and more, it will become not just too big, but it will be like the sky over his head. At some point, he'll accept that idea, 'nothing is what it seems'... our reality is not what we think it is.. it is built up of only those parts we know. There is a world of what we don't know too... and that is a part of a bigger reality.

 

Back to advice for Dennis.. how to deal with his reality... and whether he alters AL's reality... and whether GUZ will be faced with this or that reality of each couple...

 

Dennis knows I am just having fun at his expense.. I'd apologize to him, but if I did, I might change his reality a little bit

Edited January 24, 2009 by DavidZixuan (see edit history)

[lubmahgrl]

I'd stay out of it. This is between Al, Jin, Jie, and Auntie.

 

However, The man needs to be introduced to Jie before his visit. Jin needs to come clean to him, that she is married and has just been speaking for her sister Jie.

 

Landing in china only to find out all of this then would be the worst possible way for these ladies to go about getting what they want.

 

This is NOT your responsibility to tell him it is theirs but it needs to be done. It is pretty sicking what they are doing even if it is for the right reasons. It is not the way to go about it. Honesty first, and no one would have been in this situation.

[MarkHui]

except... you assume GUZ is somehow informed of these discrete details... who exactly is going to tell GUZ so clearly the details when AL is not told?

 

Doesn't anyone get it?

 

 

If I remember correctly, both you and I, David, were required to offer certain items of "evidence" for our fiancees for their interviews. While ALL the details won't come out (like not knowing she wasn't the girl he was originally planning to meet) unless he just wanted to shoot himself in the foot... some like:

 

Age (actually generation) Gap - birth certificates, anyone?

Language Barrier - Let's see someone try to fake this at the interview

Beginning and Evolution of the relationship - Can be lied on (but then that WOULD be fraud)

 

Not saying it means they would definately be turned down... hey maybe they won't file for a year, and she will learn English in that time, he will visit her 6 times, and they will have thousands of emails and phone logs, right? But "better" couples have been turned away for far less.

 

So yeah, I DO "get it", David. Do you?

sorry... I realize that I am talking a metaphor on a much different level than what is being discussed. This is not about AL nor GUZ... but we like to chop up life into small discrete issues which allows us to swallow some event and move one. In Dennis's case, the piece was too big to swallow...

 

As he considers it more and more, it will become not just too big, but it will be like the sky over his head. At some point, he'll accept that idea, 'nothing is what it seems'... our reality is not what we think it is.. it is built up of only those parts we know. There is a world of what we don't know too... and that is a part of a bigger reality.

 

Back to advice for Dennis.. how to deal with his reality... and whether he alters AL's reality... and whether GUZ will be faced with this or that reality of each couple...

 

Dennis knows I am just having fun at his expense.. I'd apologize to him, but if I did, I might change his reality a little bit

 

Life can be fluid and dynamic given a chance. IMHO old Al will be a happy camper with just a small heads up.

Edited January 25, 2009 by MarkHui (see edit history)

[lubmahman]

I'd stay out of it. This is between Al, Jin, Jie, and Auntie.

 

However, The man needs to be introduced to Jie before his visit. Jin needs to come clean to him, that she is married and has just been speaking for her sister Jie.

 

Landing in china only to find out all of this then would be the worst possible way for these ladies to go about getting what they want.

 

This is NOT your responsibility to tell him it is theirs but it needs to be done. It is pretty sicking what they are doing even if it is for the right reasons. It is not the way to go about it. Honesty first, and no one would have been in this situation.

 

it is sicking what they are doing>_<

frist, Jin!!! how could u keep chatting with Al after u already have husband. its unfair to both of them. what ur husband feel when he knows u said ur unmarried to another guy?such a lair<,< dont even try take "help him to find Jie" as excuse, if u really want to help him, why u hiding ur ugly plan? why dont even have a dare to tell him the truth since the "truth" is u just trying to help him? <,< u know, man would get mad cause u dump him, cause u picked another guy better than him, would get hurt maybe but its ok. cause compare with u playing him like a fool,u using his innocent to get what u want, thats insulting him thats the worst to a man ok? meanwhile made uself ugly too<,<

 

oh and Jie. does she know all of this? why she didnt say anything yet since she is one of this messy too? would she feel sorry cause she didnt tell him whats going on even at the end, she get him as husband, or she will feel nothing but cheering she won this trick?

 

hmmm, im agree with lubmahgirl (who is my hubby soon will be btw^^)

u'd better stay out of it since ur wife on their side. dont let those carzy women's messy story mess your love too.im gald hear u asking tho, that showing ur a good guy.at least u can sence this thing feels not right.

can't believe those women wouldnt feel guilty about it. they not just weasting his time, messed his life, also, they're insluting human's love.

sorry im chinese so english sucks>,< anyway,just want to tell u what i think. also, want to tell my man, see? see those women?ur so lucky found me, mwhaha

[lubmahgrl]

also, want to tell my man, see? see those women?ur so lucky found me, mwhaha[/color]

silly I already knew that