Class Action

[Corbin]

You don't need a class action suit if you have been wronged. If an agency of the government has failed to act according to the laws and powers granted them in congress, and you have been wronged by that, you are entitled to compensation through the courts.

 

The problem with that is that no law has been violated, and no court has jurisdiction.

 

Laws must change for there to be any change.

 

I don't know if a law was broken or not, but if constitutional process is not being followed, and or if someone is being denied their liberties provided in the constitution, I do believe the courts are the place to seek remedy.

You forget that the person that is being kept out is not a US citizen so they have no rights under the constitution. They are a citizen of another country. Your rights as a US citizen have not been violated either. You just can't bring her or him to the US.

 

Bottom line is the courts have no power from what I can see, have read and have heard.

 

Respectfully, I didn't forget that. What I am saying is that there are laws and we ( USC ) do have rights pertinent to "bringing" people here. If that can not set America apart, than this isn't America.

Yes the USC has the right to apply to sponsor their spouse or future spouse but that is about it. This type of thread has been posted many times here on CFL. We also have and had members that are from the law community that has checked this out. Bottom line a law suite will not change it. Getting our Representatives to address the laws and change those is the only fix. The way it is written now they have ways of making your life a living hell and you can not do a darn thing about it.

 

The biggest thing you need to remember the spouse or future spouse is not a citizen, which mean no USC rights covers them. Our rights do not extend to them.

 

Edit:

One last thing the above is like being in the US military, once you sign the contract to join the military you the USC has given up all your rights. You can not sue the government over anything that happens to you. Same goes for you can not sue the government because the visa was turned down/bared/banned or how ever you want to word it.

Edited December 14, 2008 by Corbin (see edit history)

[jhammer]

You don't need a class action suit if you have been wronged. If an agency of the government has failed to act according to the laws and powers granted them in congress, and you have been wronged by that, you are entitled to compensation through the courts.

 

The problem with that is that no law has been violated, and no court has jurisdiction.

 

Laws must change for there to be any change.

 

I don't know if a law was broken or not, but if constitutional process is not being followed, and or if someone is being denied their liberties provided in the constitution, I do believe the courts are the place to seek remedy.

You forget that the person that is being kept out is not a US citizen so they have no rights under the constitution. They are a citizen of another country. Your rights as a US citizen have not been violated either. You just can't bring her or him to the US.

 

Bottom line is the courts have no power from what I can see, have read and have heard.

 

Respectfully, I didn't forget that. What I am saying is that there are laws and we ( USC ) do have rights pertinent to "bringing" people here. If that can not set America apart, than this isn't America.

Yes the USC has the right to apply to sponsor their spouse or future spouse but that is about it. This type of thread has been posted many times here on CFL. We also have and had members that are from the law community that has checked this out. Bottom line a law suite will not change it. Getting our Representatives to address the laws and change those is the only fix. The way it is written now they have ways of making your life a living hell and you can not do a darn thing about it.

 

The biggest thing you need to remember the spouse or future spouse is not a citizen, which mean no USC rights covers them. Our rights do not extend to them.

 

Edit:

One last thing the above is like being in the US military, once you sign the contract to join the military you the USC has given up all your rights. You can not sue the government over anything that happens to you. Same goes for you can not sue the government because the visa was turned down/bared/banned or how ever you want to word it.

 

 

OK, but you are bursting my bubble because I believe in law suits, and also believe in radical change. The court elected our last president. They can do things if compelled, and I believe that, and I believe it's possible to compel them, not sure how, exactly. :-)

[jhammer]

 

Respectfully, I didn't forget that. What I am saying is that there are laws and we ( USC ) do have rights pertinent to "bringing" people here. If that can not set America apart, than this isn't America.

 

 

You should read the laws (INS), learn about their application and enforcement, and then decide what country you are in.

 

No offense intended.

 

Sure, America is an idea, a state of mind, a belief, that's where I am.

[Randy W]

OK, but you are bursting my bubble because I believe in law suits, and also believe in radical change. The court elected our last president. They can do things if compelled, and I believe that, and I believe it's possible to compel them, not sure how, exactly. :-)

 

 

The first thing to do would be to find one that will allow you to file one against the Dept of State in a foreign country

 

All it takes to deny your SO a visa is for a Visa Officer to make the claim "not a valid relationship", and stand behind it

[Corbin]

OK, but you are bursting my bubble because I believe in law suits, and also believe in radical change. The court elected our last president. They can do things if compelled, and I believe that, and I believe it's possible to compel them, not sure how, exactly. :-)

 

 

The first thing to do would be to find one that will allow you to file one against the Dept of State in a foreign country

 

All it takes to deny your SO a visa is for a Visa Officer to make the claim "not a valid relationship", and stand behind it

That is what would be called the Catch 22 act.....

 

jhammer, I not trying to bash on you or anything like that, but these are the hard truths. May I ask how old are you because in your avatar picture you look young. Not saying your age is clouding your view, but with age comes some hard lumps that makes you see things younger eyes can't see. Yes we live in America and it is one of the best places to live mostly. But we have several short comings in our system and immigration is one of those areas, has been for decades.

 

Edit: Just for the record I am 43yrs young

Edited December 14, 2008 by Corbin (see edit history)

[jhammer]

OK, but you are bursting my bubble because I believe in law suits, and also believe in radical change. The court elected our last president. They can do things if compelled, and I believe that, and I believe it's possible to compel them, not sure how, exactly. :-)

 

 

The first thing to do would be to find one that will allow you to file one against the Dept of State in a foreign country

 

All it takes to deny your SO a visa is for a Visa Officer to make the claim "not a valid relationship", and stand behind it

 

You mean, find a court that would allow.... OK, good enough, I can accept that.

[jhammer]

OK, but you are bursting my bubble because I believe in law suits, and also believe in radical change. The court elected our last president. They can do things if compelled, and I believe that, and I believe it's possible to compel them, not sure how, exactly. :-)

 

 

The first thing to do would be to find one that will allow you to file one against the Dept of State in a foreign country

 

All it takes to deny your SO a visa is for a Visa Officer to make the claim "not a valid relationship", and stand behind it

That is what would be called the Catch 22 act.....

 

jhammer, I not trying to bash on you or anything like that, but these are the hard truths. May I ask how old are you because in your avatar picture you look young. Not saying your age is clouding your view, but with age comes some hard lumps that makes you see things younger eyes can't see. Yes we live in America and it is one of the best places to live mostly. But we have several short comings in our system and immigration is one of those areas, has been for decades.

 

It's all cool, and you are likely right. I am 42. I lived in some really beautiful places in the US, and I've lived in the "ghetto". I dont accept much of what I've seen growing up. And I tell my kids not to accept it. not to accept strip malls as geology, not to accept cars as legs, not to accept all kinds of things that are accepted as normal. I believe the place for radical change in the US is in the courts. That's my view is all.

[heyjimi]

You don't need a class action suit if you have been wronged. If an agency of the government has failed to act according to the laws and powers granted them in congress, and you have been wronged by that, you are entitled to compensation through the courts.

 

The problem with that is that no law has been violated, and no court has jurisdiction.

 

Laws must change for there to be any change.

 

I don't know if a law was broken or not, but if constitutional process is not being followed, and or if someone is being denied their liberties provided in the constitution, I do believe the courts are the place to seek remedy.

You forget that the person that is being kept out is not a US citizen so they have no rights under the constitution. They are a citizen of another country. Your rights as a US citizen have not been violated either. You just can't bring her or him to the US.

 

Bottom line is the courts have no power from what I can see, have read and have heard.

 

Respectfully, I didn't forget that. What I am saying is that there are laws and we ( USC ) do have rights pertinent to "bringing" people here. If that can not set America apart, than this isn't America.

Yes the USC has the right to apply to sponsor their spouse or future spouse but that is about it. This type of thread has been posted many times here on CFL. We also have and had members that are from the law community that has checked this out. Bottom line a law suite will not change it. Getting our Representatives to address the laws and change those is the only fix. The way it is written now they have ways of making your life a living hell and you can not do a darn thing about it.

 

The biggest thing you need to remember the spouse or future spouse is not a citizen, which mean no USC rights covers them. Our rights do not extend to them.

 

Edit:

One last thing the above is like being in the US military, once you sign the contract to join the military you the USC has given up all your rights. You can not sue the government over anything that happens to you. Same goes for you can not sue the government because the visa was turned down/bared/banned or how ever you want to word it.

 

 

OK, but you are bursting my bubble because I believe in law suits, and also believe in radical change. The court elected our last president. They can do things if compelled, and I believe that, and I believe it's possible to compel them, not sure how, exactly. :-)

 

I am with you brother.....you know its interesting,how everyone brings up spouse is not a citizen.....well,The supreme court ruled in June 2008,that detainees at Guatanamo bay,cuba,have a constitutional right to challenge their detentions in Federal court....they are not citizens.American law is a funny thing,it's like the "line" in the song "stairway to heaven" ...sometimes words have two meanings.Often the law can be interpreted in many ways.and so true the wife is not a citizen,but...religiously,two become one,she is my wife,we are one.maybe....It could be fought on basis of religion.?????....Hey I am just one person,thinking outside the box. sometimes thats what you have to do,maybe i am talking out of my ass.But one day someone will come up with a way to radically change this crap for all of us.

 

JIMI

[C4Racer]

I am with you brother.....you know its interesting,how everyone brings up spouse is not a citizen.....well,The supreme court ruled in June 2008,that detainees at Guatanamo bay,cuba,have a constitutional right to challenge their detentions in Federal court....they are not citizens.American law is a funny thing

 

The detainees are not citizens, but they are being detained overseas at Guatanamo Bay which is considered to be US soil, so this is how they come under US law.

[jhammer]

I am with you brother.....you know its interesting,how everyone brings up spouse is not a citizen.....well,The supreme court ruled in June 2008,that detainees at Guatanamo bay,cuba,have a constitutional right to challenge their detentions in Federal court....they are not citizens.American law is a funny thing

 

The detainees are not citizens, but they are being detained overseas at Guatanamo Bay which is considered to be US soil, so this is how they come under US law.

 

Isn't the any US embassy "considered to be US soil" and what about the consulates ?

[jhammer]

If I remember correctly an embassy is considered the "soil" of the occupying country only so far as protection and safe harbor for its citizens and that the host country can't come barging in and conduct searches or seizures. I may be wrong....

 

The best way to change the Immigration policies/laws/procedures is to find a Senator that is sympathic to the issue and then convince him/her to write new legislation....then, the only drawback is getting all the other Senators/Reps to agree with it. To be realistic, it's not going to happen any time soon....1. because the Immigration issue is already a mess and they can't agree on anything that will fix it, and 2. there are higher priorites on their plate right now 3. There is not a strong enough lobbying organization to force it to a higher priority. 4. It is easier to come to the U.S. as an illegal alien, marry, have children and then apply for amnesty which is offered about every 7 to 10 years...

 

Good point, but I believe those sponsored by the US government are bound to abide by US law while there, so it's a bit more than that.

[jhammer]

If I remember correctly an embassy is considered the "soil" of the occupying country only so far as protection and safe harbor for its citizens and that the host country can't come barging in and conduct searches or seizures. I may be wrong....

 

The best way to change the Immigration policies/laws/procedures is to find a Senator that is sympathic to the issue and then convince him/her to write new legislation....then, the only drawback is getting all the other Senators/Reps to agree with it. To be realistic, it's not going to happen any time soon....1. because the Immigration issue is already a mess and they can't agree on anything that will fix it, and 2. there are higher priorites on their plate right now 3. There is not a strong enough lobbying organization to force it to a higher priority. 4. It is easier to come to the U.S. as an illegal alien, marry, have children and then apply for amnesty which is offered about every 7 to 10 years...

 

It is really interesting what you have said. If it can't happen soon, and you accept that, then how long is tolerable? Please get me right here - I completely sympathize and acknowledge the views , the validity, the experience of the statements I see regarding this here.

 

It just happens to be not at all my style, and let me give you a good example why I dont buy it.

 

Gay marriage

School for illegals

Terry Shrivo

Stem cell research

 

 

If items like these can find priorities, then the immigration stakeholders have just been doing a poor job of making it clear how important this is. And I don't mean to say the above are not high priorities.

My Father, a die hard republican who voted democrat this year for the first time, understands how screwed up immigration is. How our policies and practices are literally un-american.

John McCain brought torture as a high priority, and he is right about that, and we are right about our immigration policy stinking and it is incorrect to believe for a heartbeat that it is anything but one of the very top priorities for America to get right, lest we fail to be America, and I think there are quite a few people here who understand what go t us here in the first place.

In other words, no. I reject the idea that it has to take time, not a high priority. For example, our next president is already touched by an immigration problem in his own family. When we stop thinking that America means going and looking for trouble, and we remember that it means upholding why we came here and doing so in our own backyards, then, immigration can top stem cell debates in congress, it can top gay marriage ban debates, and medicinal marijuana and what not. It is truly a national issue. When we can get a government that can understand and respect what is a state issue and a federal issue, we get to clear the deck on a lot of these priorities.

[heyjimi]

I am with you brother.....you know its interesting,how everyone brings up spouse is not a citizen.....well,The supreme court ruled in June 2008,that detainees at Guatanamo bay,cuba,have a constitutional right to challenge their detentions in Federal court....they are not citizens.American law is a funny thing

 

The detainees are not citizens, but they are being detained overseas at Guatanamo Bay which is considered to be US soil, so this is how they come under US law.

 

not buying that,the Guangzhou consulate is considered the sovereignty of the USa ,all embassys,they are safe havens of the country they represent,maybe i am wrong,anyway my point, i can picture all these detainees sitting around in their cells going,we have to do something,this is not right,(because,some in there are innocent),but i can hear everyone saying,,forget it,you cant change things,your not a citizen,in American peoples eyes you are a terrorist,a dirt bag,who is going to listen to you? you have no rights.how can you change things,the law is set in concrete.Somebody,believed it could change,someone got a lawyer involved,one with a big pair of balls.and he did something. it had to be taken to the supreme court.so it had to be challenged. Thats all i am saying.

 

Jimi

[heyjimi]

The No. 1 reason that Immigration laws have not changed is...

 

( a drumroll, please!)...

 

 

There isn't anyone that has the money($millions$) that it would take to unravel, analyze, and challenge the laws up through the Supreme Court that gives a shit!

 

Sorry...we're on our own!!!

 

OK Larry,

but who gives a shit about Terrorists?

 

Things will change.have faith.

 

 

JIMI

[heyjimi]

Things will change.have faith.

 

 

JIMI

 

 

I have zero faith in the U.S. government. Perhaps someday, someone who is rich enough and is willing to spend their wealth on attorneys that can do all the research and work it will take to figure out the immigration laws and then file a lawsuit, and then appeal after appeal until it reaches the Supreme Court, and then perhaps the Supreme Court will agree to hear the case. I can't hold my breath that long. I wouldn't if I could. The only dealings I have had with the U.S. government since getting out of the service 32 years ago is this current visa application I have pending. When this is done, I will go back to ignoring them. If the application is denied for any reason, I will take my money and move to China.

 

Larry,you and I are in agreement here,do i sound like someone,who has faith in this government?Think again. Hell,i been told by so many people,to not even say anything anymore on this board,because Guz listens in on this board,and i am like......To hell with them,The way i see it,for now it is still America,the problem is most americans don't have balls to stand up for anything, get out and change things,they rather just bitch about how this country sucks.It aint a communist country yet. Dont let them take your balls away.No i am not saying these laws will be changed for us,but maybe for others,down the road.

 

Jimi