Moving or Retiring in China...

[mredmond]

I just returned from wuhan china and was very impressed with the peoples in that city. I was under the assumption that I would feel afraid of walking down the streets, being told "go home back to USA" by everyone, feeling I did not belong, and/or just not feel comfortable at all about being in a communistic run country.

Boy oh boy was I wrong about them all. I loved it there. The people, yes, stared or looked at me (it seems everyone of them) but they were all as nice as could be or acted as though they did not even care that an American was walking among them.

I was impressed at the amount of people in business. Young people had stores selling items everywhere. Shopping was fun, and different. They do not have shopping malls as we know them. Stalls, small glass divider rooms on a floor of a building along with 100 or so other small glass divider rooms. Street vendors selling everything and anything you can eat or wear or use in one way or another.

It was great. This was my first time in China ever. I met my girlfriend, fiance and confirmed that we were for sure in love and would marry.

I spent 10 days there and with her and we did anything and everything. We visited her family, had dinner with friends, went to see where her parents worked ( the yellow crane tower), ate foods that would never be allowed to be sold on a plate in the USA, window shopped, walked along the Yangtze river at noght and day, looked at people walk by on the crowded streets, etc, etc, etc.

I tell you, I hated to leave and come back to the USA. Not only because I would miss her and she also did not want for me to leave, but because the hustle and bustle of that city is something you never see in the states anywhere. Yes, the air there is so thick that you can hold it in you hand, and you choke on it everyday, but it was a great time !

Anyway, onto my real meaning of this response. I feel for you in being able to live in China. I think that it would be a great adventure and is definitely something that you will remember forever. I have thought of a move to live there myself. My fiance is very afraid to come to the USA because of her negative feelings of learning the language efficient enough to feel comfortable. I on the other hand can and have been learning the Chinese language very good and very quickly. So, I have had the thought of a move for myself to China. My only problem is the money there is very little and how to find a good paying job. One always has bills to pay and if you are only making 1/4 of the amount you wold be making in the USA how do you pay bills and live in another country with that ? Any suggestions ? I know that I can pay off all bills her before going and sell the house and that would go pretty far in China for living on, but I want to live nice there not in a minimal apartment style house in a run down area.

Anyway, good luck to you and I hope you have fun there.

 

You had the same kinds of feelings about China that many of us did on our first excursion to the motherland...It's always great to read posts like this and get that fresh feeling back again...

 

xie xie

 

Glad I could help you remember the excitement of the first trip for you and others. I really did enjoy the trip and would suggest that every USA citizen try to experience it at least once in their lifetime. They will be more for doing so.

[Mike62356]

My Junjie wants us to retire to GZ but, that won't be for about ten years or so , it's a nice plan but, a little to far in the future to worry about to much, yes we are planing for it a little right now, in a year or two we are going to be buying one or two homes there, this way we can live off of my retirement money and the rents from one home there and the rent from thew house here I think, or we might move back to the mountians of Pa., what ever, won't worry about it to much now gotta work to many years yet

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

I like reading Jesse's and others stories about life in China. They are all very interesting and insightful.

 

I often read these stories about experiences in China and discuss them with the lil' rabbit. I have no preconceived notions about living in China, humble to all of it's aspects, and I'm a really laid back sort who fits in to different situations fairly easily. And YES, I will be highly dependent upon the lil' rabbit and our son, Bubba Jr., to get me around.

 

tsap seui

"I have been waiting for this moment, for all my life...Oh Yeah"

 

Many thanks to those of you who posted about creating a blog or similar stories about our experiences in China. I've had a few of my former colleagues and friends in the US request that I do the same. I kinda balked on doing it, probably because I've wanted to do it in a way that would present our real-life experiences. As a writer, I would like to do it in a manner that would be informative, without being too wordy or burdensome to read. Still thinking on this, but maybe one day soon, I may take the first steps on this.

 

[GZBILL]

Your posting is interesting to read, and my husband and I are thinking of doing the same.

 

In my opinion, if you have any bills to pay in USA, then it will be hurt moving to China. The best idea is sell everything , bills free. If you have a house in USA, sell it or rent it.

 

As for jobs in China, it will be very easy to find one. I dont know what you can do, but the bottom line is you can always teach English. You get decent paid and you will live a decent life in China. Instead of renting a flat, you can buy a nice house. I dont know the price of house in Wuhan, but it will not be expensive.

 

I would definitely not recommend cutting all ties with the States in your move to China. China is not like a lot of other countries that allow guaranteed long-term presence in their country based simply on marriage to one of its citizens. Finding yourself in China one day facing expulsion because you cannot obtain a new visa would really suck. It would suck even more if upon returning to the States your only likely place of residence is under a bridge.

 

Also, it is NOT at all easy to find a job in China even in the best of times. First of all, you must have a work visa in order to be legally able to earn any money at all. New requirements for work visas state you must have a college degree, 2 years of relevant post-degree experience and in a field where there are no Chinese nationals able to do the job for which you will be hired. And contrary to popular belief, major multinational corporations are NOT eager to snap up any white face in the crowd and make them a general manager ... or even a doorman.

 

Teaching English will NOT produce the income necessary to buy a house. Right now the average salary for a part-time English teacher in Wuhan is less than 120 RMB per hour with it being very difficult to fill more than 20 hours per week at that rate. Factor in unpaid vacations and no benefits, and it is very unattractive. You could opt for a full-time position in a public school, but the pay there is far less. Whichever route you go, there will be work visa issues that may or may not be insurmountable.

 

I get at least 250 unsolicited resumes per month from expats already in China looking for the Holy Grail. Some of them even appear to be graduates from Ivy League schools. There's only one thing in which they all do not differ: their resumes end up feeding the shredder.

 

I am not saying don't make the move to China. It can be a good experience. Just do not make the move thinking you will find the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. It ain't gonna happen.

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

I don't worry too much about the language issue. I accept that I will never learn more than those few phrases and individual words so I would not be totally dysfunctional. But Lu Li and I are joined at the hip so I would always have her for needed translation. Without a Chinese spouse I would never attempt it...

 

I think it would be extremely difficult to maintain ones sanity over a long period of time without having a partner that knows both the language and culture. Nanjing is growing rapidly, but as of this moment, you would have a bit of a challenge finding Western people that have lived here more than a few months. Most seem to come and go, and very few stay.

 

I love the culture so that is not an issue at all. In many ways I feel more at home in China than the US...

 

For me, because I love the people, country, and culture, it's been quite rejuvenating living and working here. I haven't felt this way since being a teenager. There is always something new to see, or somewhere to go, as China is diverse from city to city and province to province.

 

[rogerluli]

Your posting is interesting to read, and my husband and I are thinking of doing the same.

 

In my opinion, if you have any bills to pay in USA, then it will be hurt moving to China. The best idea is sell everything , bills free. If you have a house in USA, sell it or rent it.

 

As for jobs in China, it will be very easy to find one. I dont know what you can do, but the bottom line is you can always teach English. You get decent paid and you will live a decent life in China. Instead of renting a flat, you can buy a nice house. I dont know the price of house in Wuhan, but it will not be expensive.

 

I would definitely not recommend cutting all ties with the States in your move to China. China is not like a lot of other countries that allow guaranteed long-term presence in their country based simply on marriage to one of its citizens. Finding yourself in China one day facing expulsion because you cannot obtain a new visa would really suck. It would suck even more if upon returning to the States your only likely place of residence is under a bridge.

 

Also, it is NOT at all easy to find a job in China even in the best of times. First of all, you must have a work visa in order to be legally able to earn any money at all. New requirements for work visas state you must have a college degree, 2 years of relevant post-degree experience and in a field where there are no Chinese nationals able to do the job for which you will be hired. And contrary to popular belief, major multinational corporations are NOT eager to snap up any white face in the crowd and make them a general manager ... or even a doorman.

 

Teaching English will NOT produce the income necessary to buy a house. Right now the average salary for a part-time English teacher in Wuhan is less than 120 RMB per hour with it being very difficult to fill more than 20 hours per week at that rate. Factor in unpaid vacations and no benefits, and it is very unattractive. You could opt for a full-time position in a public school, but the pay there is far less. Whichever route you go, there will be work visa issues that may or may not be insurmountable.

 

I get at least 250 unsolicited resumes per month from expats already in China looking for the Holy Grail. Some of them even appear to be graduates from Ivy League schools. There's only one thing in which they all do not differ: their resumes end up feeding the shredder.

 

I am not saying don't make the move to China. It can be a good experience. Just do not make the move thinking you will find the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. It ain't gonna happen.

 

Great PRACTICAL advice... China will not be the pot o' gold at the end of the rainbow if you are not prepared for it...

[GZBILL]

Your posting is interesting to read, and my husband and I are thinking of doing the same.

 

In my opinion, if you have any bills to pay in USA, then it will be hurt moving to China. The best idea is sell everything , bills free. If you have a house in USA, sell it or rent it.

 

As for jobs in China, it will be very easy to find one. I dont know what you can do, but the bottom line is you can always teach English. You get decent paid and you will live a decent life in China. Instead of renting a flat, you can buy a nice house. I dont know the price of house in Wuhan, but it will not be expensive.

 

I would definitely not recommend cutting all ties with the States in your move to China. China is not like a lot of other countries that allow guaranteed long-term presence in their country based simply on marriage to one of its citizens. Finding yourself in China one day facing expulsion because you cannot obtain a new visa would really suck. It would suck even more if upon returning to the States your only likely place of residence is under a bridge.

 

Also, it is NOT at all easy to find a job in China even in the best of times. First of all, you must have a work visa in order to be legally able to earn any money at all. New requirements for work visas state you must have a college degree, 2 years of relevant post-degree experience and in a field where there are no Chinese nationals able to do the job for which you will be hired. And contrary to popular belief, major multinational corporations are NOT eager to snap up any white face in the crowd and make them a general manager ... or even a doorman.

 

Teaching English will NOT produce the income necessary to buy a house. Right now the average salary for a part-time English teacher in Wuhan is less than 120 RMB per hour with it being very difficult to fill more than 20 hours per week at that rate. Factor in unpaid vacations and no benefits, and it is very unattractive. You could opt for a full-time position in a public school, but the pay there is far less. Whichever route you go, there will be work visa issues that may or may not be insurmountable.

 

I get at least 250 unsolicited resumes per month from expats already in China looking for the Holy Grail. Some of them even appear to be graduates from Ivy League schools. There's only one thing in which they all do not differ: their resumes end up feeding the shredder.

 

I am not saying don't make the move to China. It can be a good experience. Just do not make the move thinking you will find the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. It ain't gonna happen.

 

Great PRACTICAL advice... China will not be the pot o' gold at the end of the rainbow if you are not prepared for it...

 

Right, preparation is the key ... now more than ever.

 

And if you do find your pot of gold, great. Just understand that the chances of that happening are really, really minimal. Don't put all your eggs in the China basket.

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

Your posting is interesting to read, and my husband and I are thinking of doing the same.

 

In my opinion, if you have any bills to pay in USA, then it will be hurt moving to China. The best idea is sell everything , bills free. If you have a house in USA, sell it or rent it.

 

As for jobs in China, it will be very easy to find one. I dont know what you can do, but the bottom line is you can always teach English. You get decent paid and you will live a decent life in China. Instead of renting a flat, you can buy a nice house. I dont know the price of house in Wuhan, but it will not be expensive.

 

I would definitely not recommend cutting all ties with the States in your move to China. China is not like a lot of other countries that allow guaranteed long-term presence in their country based simply on marriage to one of its citizens. Finding yourself in China one day facing expulsion because you cannot obtain a new visa would really suck. It would suck even more if upon returning to the States your only likely place of residence is under a bridge.

 

Also, it is NOT at all easy to find a job in China even in the best of times. First of all, you must have a work visa in order to be legally able to earn any money at all. New requirements for work visas state you must have a college degree, 2 years of relevant post-degree experience and in a field where there are no Chinese nationals able to do the job for which you will be hired. And contrary to popular belief, major multinational corporations are NOT eager to snap up any white face in the crowd and make them a general manager ... or even a doorman.

 

Teaching English will NOT produce the income necessary to buy a house. Right now the average salary for a part-time English teacher in Wuhan is less than 120 RMB per hour with it being very difficult to fill more than 20 hours per week at that rate. Factor in unpaid vacations and no benefits, and it is very unattractive. You could opt for a full-time position in a public school, but the pay there is far less. Whichever route you go, there will be work visa issues that may or may not be insurmountable.

 

I get at least 250 unsolicited resumes per month from expats already in China looking for the Holy Grail. Some of them even appear to be graduates from Ivy League schools. There's only one thing in which they all do not differ: their resumes end up feeding the shredder.

 

I am not saying don't make the move to China. It can be a good experience. Just do not make the move thinking you will find the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. It ain't gonna happen.

 

I was fortunate in that my company assisted my in getting my work visa from start to finish. They actually hired a company in Shanghai who worked one on one with me. It would be extremely difficult if not impossible to do that on your own.

[GZBILL]

Your posting is interesting to read, and my husband and I are thinking of doing the same.

 

In my opinion, if you have any bills to pay in USA, then it will be hurt moving to China. The best idea is sell everything , bills free. If you have a house in USA, sell it or rent it.

 

As for jobs in China, it will be very easy to find one. I dont know what you can do, but the bottom line is you can always teach English. You get decent paid and you will live a decent life in China. Instead of renting a flat, you can buy a nice house. I dont know the price of house in Wuhan, but it will not be expensive.

 

I would definitely not recommend cutting all ties with the States in your move to China. China is not like a lot of other countries that allow guaranteed long-term presence in their country based simply on marriage to one of its citizens. Finding yourself in China one day facing expulsion because you cannot obtain a new visa would really suck. It would suck even more if upon returning to the States your only likely place of residence is under a bridge.

 

Also, it is NOT at all easy to find a job in China even in the best of times. First of all, you must have a work visa in order to be legally able to earn any money at all. New requirements for work visas state you must have a college degree, 2 years of relevant post-degree experience and in a field where there are no Chinese nationals able to do the job for which you will be hired. And contrary to popular belief, major multinational corporations are NOT eager to snap up any white face in the crowd and make them a general manager ... or even a doorman.

 

Teaching English will NOT produce the income necessary to buy a house. Right now the average salary for a part-time English teacher in Wuhan is less than 120 RMB per hour with it being very difficult to fill more than 20 hours per week at that rate. Factor in unpaid vacations and no benefits, and it is very unattractive. You could opt for a full-time position in a public school, but the pay there is far less. Whichever route you go, there will be work visa issues that may or may not be insurmountable.

 

I get at least 250 unsolicited resumes per month from expats already in China looking for the Holy Grail. Some of them even appear to be graduates from Ivy League schools. There's only one thing in which they all do not differ: their resumes end up feeding the shredder.

 

I am not saying don't make the move to China. It can be a good experience. Just do not make the move thinking you will find the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. It ain't gonna happen.

 

I was fortunate in that my company assisted my in getting my work visa from start to finish. They actually hired a company in Shanghai who worked one on one with me. It would be extremely difficult if not impossible to do that on your own.

 

Right. And now it is even more difficult.

 

By the way, there are some indications that they are changing the rules pertaining to visas and "alien" management. It might still take a long time, though, since it has to go through the bureaucracy. Hopefully the changes will be positive.

[rogerluli]

 

By the way, there are some indications that they are changing the rules pertaining to visas and "alien" management. It might still take a long time, though, since it has to go through the bureaucracy. Hopefully the changes will be positive.

 

That's very hopeful to hear... Our first choice would be China but if they want to make it very difficult for foreigners to stay then it's off to MM2H...

[Don]

Do you know anyone that has gotten an adjunt professorship at a local university? That might be a good route. They will have the influence to handle the visa issues. Plus, that is a part time position and you work with other professors, so most will know English. Plus, it keeps you close to a group of people that has lived and worked in the US. I am assuming a good school.

 

I know many Chinese Americans have done this, but I do not know any non-Chinese that have done this. They will not pay much, but than you are open to consult for other companies. A lot of money can be made consulting for local Chinese companies.

Edited October 28, 2008 by Don (see edit history)

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

Also, it is NOT at all easy to find a job in China even in the best of times. First of all, you must have a work visa in order to be legally able to earn any money at all. New requirements for work visas state you must have a college degree, 2 years of relevant post-degree experience and in a field where there are no Chinese nationals able to do the job for which you will be hired. And contrary to popular belief, major multinational corporations are NOT eager to snap up any white face in the crowd and make them a general manager ... or even a doorman.

 

Any American that has experience in the software industry is a valuable commodity in China. My company for example is willing to pay top dollar for experienced professionals. A degree in the industry will earn you even more. The deal is, you have to move and live here. However, in most cases your move will be paid, along with the process of procuring your work visa. A UI (User Interface) Engineer, or developer can negotiate today, and be moving here in several weeks.

[GZBILL]

Do you know anyone that has gotten an adjunt professorship at a local university? That might be a good route. They will have the influence to handle the visa issues. Plus, that is a part time position and you work with other professors, so most will know English. Plus, it keeps you close to a group of people that has lived and worked in the US. I am assuming a good school.

 

I know many Chinese Americans have done this, but I do not know any non-Chinese that have done this. They will not pay much, but than you are open to consult for other companies. A lot of money can be made consulting for local Chinese companies.

 

Although it is easy to get a job as a university professor especially to teach English, it is rarely, if ever, a tenured position for anybody who is not a Chinese citizen.

 

You are right in that the pay is very low. An added difficulty is that they are imposing age restrictions as well as existing race restrictions in obatining not only the position, but also the necessary work permit and residence permit approvals.

[Bill and Linda]

Great PRACTICAL advice... China will not be the pot o' gold at the end of the rainbow if you are not prepared for it...

 

Right, preparation is the key ... now more than ever.

 

And if you do find your pot of gold, great. Just understand that the chances of that happening are really, really minimal. Don't put all your eggs in the China basket.

 

When I made the decision to move to Chengdu, it was always with the belief that it would be damn near impossible to live on my $1306 SSA benefit in the US, but I could probably be comfortable on that amount here. Because my US mortgage would chew up a big chunk of that, I decided it was absolutely necessary to sell my house and property and while I was at it, let everything else go with it.

 

Although I had never been to China before, when I was finished doing my research on the potential move and still living in the US, I met and co-habitated with a Chinese lady (Ming) from November 2004 to April 2006, who grew up in Chengdu. We would be married today if she had not lost patience with my divorce progress... but Ming had moved out and found someone new by the time I was free.

 

It turned out to be a cloud with a silver lining, because I later met Tianqiong and she has been everything I could have ever desired, both as a friend and a wife

 

I never expected a pot of gold when I planned my move to China, I just "knew" that if I was reasonable in my needs, it would be ok and maybe I could even put some money away for a rainy day. Tian has helped a lot by not being a "champagne girl". She has not had it easy during her life, and we are very happy with providing for her mother and paying on the "house" where her son lives with his grandmother. Our greatest joy are my wife's friends and family that we visit in the tea house, or trade off taking to lunch or dinner. I've posted in the past that I am teaching English, but it is only 5+ hours a week..... my choice..... after all, I am supposed to be "retired" (just celebrated b'day #63, and it was heartwarming to hear my kids that I teach, sing happy birthday yesterday).

 

I've had money in the past, but divorce does take it's toll. Happiness can't be measured in dollars (or RMB).... and I am happier today than I could have ever imagined. Just be realistic about one's needs and expectations, and all will be well. That pot at the end of the rainbow doesn't necessarily contain any bling-bling.

[Richard & Li]

Do you know anyone that has gotten an adjunt professorship at a local university? That might be a good route. They will have the influence to handle the visa issues. Plus, that is a part time position and you work with other professors, so most will know English. Plus, it keeps you close to a group of people that has lived and worked in the US. I am assuming a good school.

 

I know many Chinese Americans have done this, but I do not know any non-Chinese that have done this. They will not pay much, but than you are open to consult for other companies. A lot of money can be made consulting for local Chinese companies.

 

I am non-Chinese an have been offered a position in Hangzhou as an 'adjunct professor'.

 

I've been working there during the summers doing curriculum development through a cooperative agreement between the Chinese university and the American one (where I work).

 

The compensation for working jointly (essentially for both universities simultaneously) has been good. The same salary I make in America, international air fare paid, local transportation paid, hotel and meals paid.

 

In comparison, if I accepted the adjunct position for a semester (without some kind of arrangement with the American university), it would almost be volunteer work. The pay would be about 1/10 of what I make in America. An apartment would be provided with paid utilities, but I would have to buy food (which would probably take all my paycheck).