Denied K1 at Gz. What next?

[georgeandli]

Sorry for the White [NOID]. I also got one. Do Not make any quick desisions you might regret later. You do have options. All of them will however take time. Add me to the list with chilton747, PM me also if you wish.

[Sebastian]

My deepest apologies - I'm giving bad advice. I will lay off for a while, stay in study mode.

[Michael&Guiying]

I just wrote to my two U.S. Senator's secretaries (whom I know well from other matters) about what happened. Here is a copy (minus name/address/etc). I'm sure they can't help my case but maybe some good will come out of it for others in the future. Also, I would welcome any PM's advising what to do next.

 

 

August 28, 2008

 

Dear Amanda and Patricia,

 

My name is Alvin Michael Smith and I have been in contact with both of you in

the past about talking with my senators about the matter of a K1 visa for my

Chinese fiance, Guiying Liu in the past two years. Finally, after so much

trouble, and after I spent 5 1/2 months in Guilin (in the 181 Hospital of the

P.L.A., no less!) last year, Guiying received her interview appointment about

a month ago and had her interview yesterday. She received a rejection. Her

Guangzhou case number was GUZxxxxxxxx and I have attached the rejection

(white) slip given her. Of course, I know the senators can not reverse a

decision made by a consulate officer but I do want them to know what

happened.

 

Guiying went for her interview at 7:15 am and had to wait two hours before she

was seen. Understandable, but while she was waiting downstairs, an 'American

lawyer' called her to his desk and offered his services. He told her he could

handle things for her for a price of 30,000 rmb and could guarantee her visa

or her money back. She told me that had she had the money, she would have

given it to him on the spot. I told her that it was nothing but a scam ran by

shysters and nobody could guarantee an applicant a visa. Something strange

though, she saw a man's face on the lawyer's laptop computer screen. The face

was the very VO (visa officer) who attended her that morning. According to

Guiying, the interview went like this;

 

Before he even looked at her documents, he asked her if she had been married

before and she answered yes. The VO also asked several personal questions

about the divorce even though he had her certified and notarized divorce

papers right in front of him. Guiying told him her divorce papers were there

and all correct. He didn't even look at them.

Next, the VO (his initials are 'MC') thumbed through the other documents and

said, "No tax returns!". There was a letter from me explaining that I was on

Social Security and even though my yearly amount did not meet the guidelines,

the letter of reference from Bank of America showed checking and savings

accounts MANY times over the poverty guidelines stated by USCIS. MUCH more

than needed to support Guiying by anyone's standards!

Next, he 'looked at' the evidence of relationship. He saw two pictures of us

together, became very rude, and said 'Rejection'. The man (MC) didn't even

look at the rest of the evidence of relationship that included letter from

relatives (notarized) that said they knew Guiying and I were engaged and all

were anxious to welcome their new daughter-in-law/aunt/and sister-in-law. He

didn't look at the life insurance policies I included showing Guiying as

beneficiary. He didn't even bother to read the certified letter from my

doctor and the director of the 181 Hospital of the P.L.A. in Guilin that

stated that they had treated me there and that Guiying, my fiance, had been

with me the entire time I was there! None of this was read by the VO

named 'MC', not even the lengthy phone bills and dozens of Western Union

receipts.

 

I understand that usually in such cases a BLUE slip is issued requesting more

information. That did not happen to Guiying. She got the WHITE letter of

rejection. I feel that Guiying and I were treated very unfair and that this

matter needs the attention of Senators DeMint and Graham. Even though I doubt

they can do anything about our case, perhaps an investigation can possibly

prevent such treatment of future applicants. It has been heartbreaking for us

and I hope it never happens to anyone again. Thank you for listening.

 

Sincerely,

xxx xxxx

xxxxxxx

xxxxxxx

(

Edited August 28, 2008 by Michael&Guiying (see edit history)

[dale7570]

listen to chilton as he has a lot of knowledge and experience about these matters. most people that get the white slip end up getting married and filing for a spouse visa , because if you wait for the petition to return to the usa often the uscis just lets the petition die and you don't have a chance to re-affirm it.

[TheMace]

Hi, thanks for the advice and info. First, I am not a rich man and to hand a laywer 5 to 10 thousand dollars that is not going to give me a 100% guarantee that this laywer can get the denial overturned is not how I want to go with this. I have heard send a formal letter to Gunagzhou and tell them I wish to drop the K-1 petition then go to Chongqing and marry Xianxiu and file for a Spousal visa I-130. I have also been told not to send the letter to drop the finacee visa petiton and go to Chongqing marry Xianxiu and file the I-130. I guess I can't expect someone to really know what is the best way for us to go at this time.

This is what I have decided to do though I have not talked to Xianxiu about it yet, I was hoping to get some replies from people who also had the blue denial letter sent to them and followed it through to the end with going to appeal the consulates decision and won. However I have heard it can take as little as three months to two years before our papers are ever back in the hands of the USCIS.which now translates to me as Usless Service Causing Insanity and Suffering. Any way what I plan to do is to return to Chongqing in October and marry Xianxiu, then submit the I-130 and just leave the I-129F alone unless they actually send me something about an appeal. I have also been told that a spousal visa can be denied (haven't heard about anyone having that happen in the replies I've seen. Any way even if the spousal visa is denied, which I assume the time line is about the same length as waiting for the fiancee visa paperwork to make its way to an interview in Guangzhou. That leaves me 4 years until I retire, and if we are denied a spousal visa, my house here goes up for sale and I move to China, requesting permission to live there. They do have a green card system, though I am not very familiar with it. If this country won't allow Xianxiu and I to be together here, then perhaps China will be more accommodating to us. The only part of this I have not discussed with Xianxiu is my coming in October to marry her. Just need to make sure of the days off I can get from my employer.

Gary

 

 

 

You have two options, either/or (not both):

 

1. get an attorney in GUZ immediately, be prepared to spend between 5 to 10 thousand dollars. You have some hope whilst the case remains in GUZ. Once it leaves GUZ, a lawyer in GUZ is useless (imo).

 

2. send a letter to NVC and GUZ, abandoning the petition, and go back to china, get married, come back to usa, and file a I-130.

 

 

I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. Wash in Cold Water. YMMV.

Don't abandon the petition as suggested in item 2. Guz will send a NOID to NVC and it will be returned to the USCIS, if you send a letter it could result in an automatic denial, which is bad. You want the opportunity to contest their decision which can be overturned.

 

Even if you get married now, you need to contest their recommendation to deny and only then could you abandon the case.

 

The thing to remember is that Guz has made a recommendation and that is on the record, canceling after this only reinforces their recommendation with the USCIS and will haunt you in future visa attempts.

[dnoblett]

listen to chilton as he has a lot of knowledge and experience about these matters. most people that get the white slip end up getting married and filing for a spouse visa , because if you wait for the petition to return to the usa often the uscis just lets the petition die and you don't have a chance to re-affirm it.

Correct, I read somewhere that USCIS seems to not know what to do with the denied K-1 petitions, so seem to consider the petition expired due to the interview taking place AFTER the expiration date on the I-129F NOA2 letter, so they let they close the case.

[Randy W]

 

This is what I have decided to do though I have not talked to Xianxiu about it yet, I was hoping to get some replies from people who also had the blue denial letter sent to them and followed it through to the end with going to appeal the consulates decision and won. However I have heard it can take as little as three months to two years before our papers are ever back in the hands of the USCIS.which now translates to me as Usless Service Causing Insanity and Suffering.

 

 

There IS NO appealing the consulate's decision. What HAS HAPPENED (Goerge&Li) is that they were white-slipped, it was returned to the USCIS and they got a court hearing. The case was won, and the USCIS re-affirmed the PETITION and returned it to GUZ. It is STILL up to the consulate to decide whether to issue a visa, or not. FOR THIS ONE CASE (very rare) they decided to issue the visa.

 

But the appeal ONLY concerns the petition, not the visa.

[Michael&Guiying]

 

This is what I have decided to do though I have not talked to Xianxiu about it yet, I was hoping to get some replies from people who also had the blue denial letter sent to them and followed it through to the end with going to appeal the consulates decision and won. However I have heard it can take as little as three months to two years before our papers are ever back in the hands of the USCIS.which now translates to me as Usless Service Causing Insanity and Suffering.

 

 

There IS NO appealing the consulate's decision. What HAS HAPPENED (Goerge&Li) is that they were white-slipped, it was returned to the USCIS and they got a court hearing. The case was won, and the USCIS re-affirmed the PETITION and returned it to GUZ. It is STILL up to the consulate to decide whether to issue a visa, or not. FOR THIS ONE CASE (very rare) they decided to issue the visa.

 

 

 

 

But the appeal ONLY concerns the petition, not the visa.

 

What fun! Appeal? Spend your money? Win! Get the petition re-affirmed? Gets sent back to GUZ and maybe get the same #&%* VO all over again?

Perhaps if enough people complain to their senators and reps there would be a Congressional hearing and a revamp of this evil entity called 'U.S. Consulate'.

[tsap seui]

 

This is what I have decided to do though I have not talked to Xianxiu about it yet, I was hoping to get some replies from people who also had the blue denial letter sent to them and followed it through to the end with going to appeal the consulates decision and won. However I have heard it can take as little as three months to two years before our papers are ever back in the hands of the USCIS.which now translates to me as Usless Service Causing Insanity and Suffering.

 

 

There IS NO appealing the consulate's decision. What HAS HAPPENED (Goerge&Li) is that they were white-slipped, it was returned to the USCIS and they got a court hearing. The case was won, and the USCIS re-affirmed the PETITION and returned it to GUZ. It is STILL up to the consulate to decide whether to issue a visa, or not. FOR THIS ONE CASE (very rare) they decided to issue the visa.

 

But the appeal ONLY concerns the petition, not the visa.

 

Randy nailed it on the head with his post.

 

 

Keep your patience and don't do ANYTHING rash guys. Don't stop your K-1's, you may NEVER hear from the USCIS on them, but don't YOU stop them.

 

chilton747 (Charles) can tell you what he has done and is doing after his K-1 denial, and he and his lady are maried now with a new interview coming up later this year for a CR-1/IR-1 (married) type visa.

 

 

There is NO recourse with a denial from GUZ other than wait. We were AP blue slipped in July 2007 and waited 10 months to get denied in May 2008. We never got asked a question the whole time and 2 different congressmens inquirys, faxes to the consulor general and IV unit chief, and over 60 e-mails to GUZ were a total waste of time...other than making me feel like I was doing my best.

 

As I see it there are only two options.

 

1) Stay in america and try a married type visa......Charles is doing this one right now. It takes a long time as he will tell you.

 

2) Go get married and live your bona fide relationship in China, if you can. This is the shortest and surest timeline to be with your woman. You have control of your own lives for a change with no third party intervention from the american government and you can always do a DCF from China....if you feel like it later.

 

Good luck to both of you guys and you're ladies. I well understand your pain. It's a real shady racket the american government has got going on in Guangzhou, China.

 

tsap seui

Edited August 28, 2008 by tsap seui (see edit history)

[georgeandli]

Respectfully Randy W, That did not happen in my case. NO court hearing. I/We played out the denial [White].

[warpedbored]

Michael I understand your anger. Just don't show it to the powers that be. In the sage words of our fearless leader Don, "use a lot of mouthwash to get the taste out of your mouth while kissing their a@@"

 

There's a lot of good advice in this thread. White slips can be difficult to overcome. They can go on for years sometimes. There is no guarantee that a visa will ever be granted. GZ doesn't like their decisions overturned. I only know of two white slip cases that have gone through to completion. George and Li and another member. In George's case they were successful in the other it turned out in the end that the consulate was right and she was a visa scammer.

good luck.

[Randy W]

Respectfully Randy W, That did not happen in my case. NO court hearing. I/We played out the denial [White].

 

 

Yeah I remember now - I think your's was settle without a court hearing - just through the mail?

[Michael&Guiying]

I was just talking with Guiying. She told me that as she ws getting her physical, she was told that the consulate was rejecting almost everybody. That almost sounds as if the consulate is under order to deny or reject as many as possible. Could there be any truth to that? I talked with an immigration lawyer today and after I told him of the documents and package we had ready for the interview, he was very surprised that Guiying had been rejected, let alone denied. WTH is going on in GUZ? I sure wish senators Graham and DeMint would call a Congressional hearing about what is going on. BTW, I forwarded the letters I wrote to my senators to the State Department. I can't help but wonder if I've opened up a can of worms or dug my own grave or if that letter will even be read.

[dnoblett]

I was just talking with Guiying. She told me that as she ws getting her physical, she was told that the consulate was rejecting almost everybody. That almost sounds as if the consulate is under order to deny or reject as many as possible. Could there be any truth to that? I talked with an immigration lawyer today and after I told him of the documents and package we had ready for the interview, he was very surprised that Guiying had been rejected, let alone denied. WTH is going on in GUZ? I sure wish senators Graham and DeMint would call a Congressional hearing about what is going on. BTW, I forwarded the letters I wrote to my senators to the State Department. I can't help but wonder if I've opened up a can of worms or dug my own grave or if that letter will even be read.

Not likely, this is the usual banter among visa applicants in Guangzhou.

 

Just keep in mind China can be a high visa fraud country, so yes the consulate is extra vigilant when reviewing cases.

[chilton747]

Respectfully Randy W, That did not happen in my case. NO court hearing. I/We played out the denial [White].

 

 

Yeah I remember now - I think your's was settle without a court hearing - just through the mail?

 

Randy, it is my understanding that the issuance of a NOID is not settled with a court hearing. The court hearing only comes if the USCIS coincides with GZ and an appeal is necessary.