Cleaning up Beijing.....

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

So, I just came back to Tianjin today from Beijing and I cannot believe how much Beijing is cleaning up. I am not sure what they have done to make the air so much cleaner there, but it has worked tremendously. I was not aware that just cutting back factory production and cutting down on emissions from cars could make such a difference so quickly.

 

 

While in Beijing I noticed that the sky really is blue. I saw clouds.......and when I looked up at night I even saw stars. Sometimes we get blue days here in Tianjin, but they are usually only after a heavy rain or some big winds. I thought maybe we just got lucky, but when we returned back to Tianjin (50 minutes by train) it was the same old hazy/foggy sky that I left. I honestly couldn't clearly see the buildings that were far away......I think visibility is about 2-3 kilometers.

 

I hope that China is seeing the errors of it's ways and it is going to start cleaning up. I know all of this does not happen over night, I just hope that after the Olympics they continue to care.

 

Joshua

 

There are a lot of wonderful things happening in China these days. Not just in Beijing, but in many cities. It's great to be a part of a country that is excited about its future and is taking several small but positive steps to make permanent changes.

 

[rogerluli]

Oops these pics don't look so good...

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25874574

[Guest WenDylan]

Oops these pics don't look so good...

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25874574

Neither do the videos...

[IllinoisDave]

It's a shame that one measure of the "success" of China's Olympics may hinge on which way or how hard the wind blows. As a Cub fan, I can relate to that.

[Corbin]

It's a shame that one measure of the "success" of China's Olympics may hinge on which way or how hard the wind blows. As a Cub fan, I can relate to that.

This smog only serves one point for the US and that is those that want to dodge the blame for their part in pollution will point at China and say look at what they pump into the air. Going on to say that they are the major blame and that the US is only a small part of the problem now for air pollution "Greenhouse Gases".

 

This is the real shame and will tarnish what China has worked so hard at. Their day I hope is remember in a better light than one marked by what the skies look like. I also hope that the effort does fuel people in China to clean up their country even more.

 

As for us in America I hope we see that we still need to clean up our own backyard still.

[Joshua + Wang Zhuo]

Well, I will be in and out of beijing the days before the olympics. Hopefully things will clear up before then. I have been there 2 times in the last few weeks and it certainly did not look this bad. I agree, it is a shame if it is not better for the city and for the athletes when the olympics come.

 

Joshua

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

Well, I will be in and out of beijing the days before the olympics. Hopefully things will clear up before then. I have been there 2 times in the last few weeks and it certainly did not look this bad. I agree, it is a shame if it is not better for the city and for the athletes when the olympics come.

 

Joshua

 

There have been lots of reports about the air in Beijing the last couple of days. It's been real windy here in the south; I think it's blowing all our bad air up there....

 

Beijing is ready to take drastic measures. Now they say they may cut up to 90% of auto traffic to help clean it. From this two things will happen:

 

1. It will help clean the air

2. Everyone will see it clean the air

 

The result. The people of Beijing will want to keep doing it...

 

 

Course, there are those that simply don't believe....., but hey, they've always been there too....

Edited July 28, 2008 by ShaQuaNew (see edit history)

[rogerluli]

Well, I will be in and out of beijing the days before the olympics. Hopefully things will clear up before then. I have been there 2 times in the last few weeks and it certainly did not look this bad. I agree, it is a shame if it is not better for the city and for the athletes when the olympics come.

 

Joshua

 

There have been lots of reports about the air in Beijing the last couple of days. It's been real windy here in the south; I think it's blowing all our bad air up there....

 

Beijing is ready to take drastic measures. Now they say they may cut up to 90% of auto traffic to help clean it. From this two things will happen:

 

1. It will help clean the air

2. Everyone will see it clean the air

 

The result. The people of Beijing will want to keep doing it...

 

 

Course, there are those that simply don't believe....., but hey, they've always been there too....

 

That's right Jesse we've all been there too...Everyone hopes the air will be good...But hoping will not make it so...

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

 

That's right Jesse we've all been there too...Everyone hopes the air will be good...But hoping will not make it so...

 

You're so right Roger...

 

Thankfully, those tens of thousands of workers in the streets, in the water, in the factories that are working 24/7 are the ones that make the difference. You and I have little effect on the hard work they do. It's such an inspiration to see them working at night when others are sleeping...

 

[GZBILL]

Well, I will be in and out of beijing the days before the olympics. Hopefully things will clear up before then. I have been there 2 times in the last few weeks and it certainly did not look this bad. I agree, it is a shame if it is not better for the city and for the athletes when the olympics come.

 

Joshua

 

There have been lots of reports about the air in Beijing the last couple of days. It's been real windy here in the south; I think it's blowing all our bad air up there....

 

Beijing is ready to take drastic measures. Now they say they may cut up to 90% of auto traffic to help clean it. From this two things will happen:

 

1. It will help clean the air

2. Everyone will see it clean the air

 

The result. The people of Beijing will want to keep doing it...

 

 

Course, there are those that simply don't believe....., but hey, they've always been there too....

 

Your results don't measure up to past experiences in Beijing with trying to clean up the environment.

 

This clean air comes at a sacrifice that even now ordinary people are not willing to bear. There are already protests about the odd - even driving scheme. There are even more protests about factories being shut down during the Olympic period and workers sent back to their hometowns with reduced pay.

 

When it comes to economic progress versus cleaner air, the money has always won. To think that it won't now is delusional.

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

Your results don't measure up to past experiences in Beijing with trying to clean up the environment.

 

Okay, I'm listening. Perhaps you can cite some examples; didn't see any in your post. Regarding the ownership of results in your post, lets be sure to state that these results do NOT belong to me. For example, there are reports from Beijing today that the air is much cleaner than previous days. It's tough work, and won't be resolved in a few weeks or months.

 

Here's one report for example:

 

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/07/28/f-world-smog.html

 

A great deal of progress has been reported. Beijing's air quality monitoring program noted a drop in pollution levels in recent months. There were 12 more "blue sky" days (where the air quality is fair or better) in the first half of the year than in the same period in 2007, according to the state-run Xinhua news agency.

 

 

This clean air comes at a sacrifice that even now ordinary people are not willing to bear. There are already protests about the odd - even driving scheme. There are even more protests about factories being shut down during the Olympic period and workers sent back to their hometowns with reduced pay.

 

You're right. There is no easy way and requires serious sacrifice, both from the government and its people. Not everyone is agreeable with being inconvenienced with the stern measures being instituted in Beijing. I recall back in the 1960s when the US made required all refineries to stop producing leaded gas and for all car manufacturers to include a catalytic converter. These steps were huge at the time and increased the cost of gas and cars. Everyone complained at that time also, but the measures were still taken and have had excellent results.

 

When it comes to economic progress versus cleaner air, the money has always won. To think that it won't now is delusional.

 

Sure; money is a major issue and it's what's been holding back progress on reducing pollution in China. But, simply stating that money always wins is clearly misinformed and just plain wrong. Just like the US, China has spent billions to clean up. If it were simply all about money, there would be no effort made at all. There are many skilled experts now working in every corner of the world to develop methods for cleaning air and keeping it that way. That is not delusion, it is simply the effort of a country to keep its economy moving while taking steps to clean up.

Edited July 30, 2008 by ShaQuaNew (see edit history)

[GZBILL]

Your results don't measure up to past experiences in Beijing with trying to clean up the environment.

 

Okay, I'm listening. Perhaps you can cite some examples; didn't see any in your post. Regarding the ownership of results in your post, lets be sure to state that these results do NOT belong to me. For example, there are reports from Beijing today that the air is much cleaner than previous days. It's tough work, and won't be resolved in a few weeks or months.

 

Here's one report for example:

 

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/07/28/f-world-smog.html

 

A great deal of progress has been reported. Beijing's air quality monitoring program noted a drop in pollution levels in recent months. There were 12 more "blue sky" days (where the air quality is fair or better) in the first half of the year than in the same period in 2007, according to the state-run Xinhua news agency.

 

 

This clean air comes at a sacrifice that even now ordinary people are not willing to bear. There are already protests about the odd - even driving scheme. There are even more protests about factories being shut down during the Olympic period and workers sent back to their hometowns with reduced pay.

 

You're right. There is no easy way and requires serious sacrifice, both from the government and its people. Not everyone is agreeable with being inconvenienced with the stern measures being instituted in Beijing. I recall back in the 1960s when the US made required all refineries to stop producing leaded gas and for all car manufacturers to include a catalytic converter. These steps were huge at the time and increased the cost of gas and cars. Everyone complained at that time also, but the measures were still taken and have had excellent results.

 

When it comes to economic progress versus cleaner air, the money has always won. To think that it won't now is delusional.

 

Sure; money is a major issue and it's what's been holding back progress on reducing pollution in China. But, simply stating that money always wins is clearly misinformed and just plain wrong. Just like the US, China has spent billions to clean up. If it were simply all about money, there would be no effort made at all. There are many skilled experts now working in every corner of the world to develop methods for cleaning air and keeping it that way. That is not delusion, it is simply the effort of a country to keep its economy moving while taking steps to clean up.

 

Nobody is talking about the initial costs of technology designed to improve the environment.

 

Beijing will not and cannot simply leave such a significant portion of the Beijing population unemployed because factories have been closed. They will not give up the cash cow that feeds off the taxes imposed on new vehicle purchases. They will not risk alienation of a very significant portion of the Beijing population who cannot drive the cars which they paid three times more for than a comparable vehicle in the US.

 

Now they are able to do this because the population is willing to sacrifice because of the Olympics. After the Olympics that sacrifice will not fly. In fact, it is already starting to wear thin.

 

Anybody who has lived in China for more than a week knows that the government places social stability and improving the public's economic status far above environmental concerns. It's a balancing act and for now environmental protection is in the back seat.

[Sebastian]

GZBill -

 

YUP ! I agree, in toto !

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

Nobody is talking about the initial costs of technology designed to improve the environment.

 

Beijing will not and cannot simply leave such a significant portion of the Beijing population unemployed because factories have been closed. They will not give up the cash cow that feeds off the taxes imposed on new vehicle purchases. They will not risk alienation of a very significant portion of the Beijing population who cannot drive the cars which they paid three times more for than a comparable vehicle in the US.

 

Bill, your post is ridden with your personal opinion about this topic. Nothing wrong with that of course, but it's simply your opinion; nothing more than that. You seem to believe that things can change, but will not. Nothing wrong with that either. I disagree with your opinion.

 

Now they are able to do this because the population is willing to sacrifice because of the Olympics. After the Olympics that sacrifice will not fly. In fact, it is already starting to wear thin.

 

Again, this is your opinion. I've heard and read stories from countless sources that tell of the willing sacrifice many are willing to make to clean the air. Bill, if you honestly think of the millions of families and children living in China, you may reconsider your opinion. I've yet to meet a single parent of a young child that would not consider a personal sacrifice to help make a cleaner and better China for their child's future.

 

Anybody who has lived in China for more than a week knows that the government places social stability and improving the public's economic status far above environmental concerns. It's a balancing act and for now environmental protection is in the back seat.

 

This issue has nothing whatsoever to do with how long you, me or anyone has lived in China. Most of what you speak is simply your opinion. I and many others completely disagree with you.

 

--edit--

Yes, there is serious government corruption and the economy will and must take precedence over many choices. This is not about either and or however. The economy can still work while measures are taken to clean up. It's important for me to state here, that the measures currently being taken in Beijing are only temporary and designed as a temporary solution. Things will naturally be scaled back after the games as it would be impossible to sustain such measures for longer than that.

Edited July 30, 2008 by ShaQuaNew (see edit history)

[Sebastian]

ShaQuaNew -

 

Wow.

 

Really? You felt GZBill's posits were all opinion? I'm sorry, I totally disagree with you.

 

Sure - the 'interview 20,000 residents in Beijing' sampling hasn't occurred yet, but you really feel GZBill's slice of reality is totally off-base?

 

I re-read his response to you three times this evening, nodding my head, 'yup, that's as it is in BeiJing' , based on my life in BeiJing. But Hey - it's BeiJing - totally insular from every other place in China. I thought GZBill's posit was dead on. 100 percent , to the hilt, accurate.