question regarding CCP membership

[bob&haiqing]

Hello everyone,

 

I am a new member as of yesterday and this is my first post, I hope I'm placing it in the correct forum. My sweet fianc¨¦e Haiqing copied and pasted Brian's wonderful account of his fianc¨¦e's interview experience and sent it to me in an email which made me search out and find this website, thank you Brian. I've been reading many of the posts and I appreciate the many experiences and wealth of information available here. During my reading I came across something that has thrown up a red flag of concern for me. Under "links and resources" there is a pinned post titled "Interview Preparation, Kitchen Sink, questions, etc", under "Top 10 Most Common Questions" is number 10. Are you a communist? [Establishes any ineligibility] ... RED FLAG!!!

 

Here is the situation: My fianc¨¦e Haiqing is a member of the CCP (Chinese Communist Party). She has been a member for many years since she was in her last year of college where she did very well and it was strongly recommended to her that she join in order to secure a better job and ensure her future and being young at the time she joined. She has never been involved in the party other than paying dues. She has never been a director of any board nor attended any meetings or any other organized events. Her only purpose for being a member was to secure a better job which has allowed he to do better than she might have otherwise. She has stopped paying dues, even though this could jeopardize her job, as of January 23, 2008 when we sent in our I-129 K1/K2 visa package and from what I understand that since she has stopped paying dues her membership in the CCP will automatically expire at some point but I don't know when that is.

 

I have told her that if any of the forms ask if she is a member of the CCP to say yes and tell the truth and to also answer honestly to the VO during her interview or to anyone else at the US Embassy as lying will guarantee a denial of a visa and could jeopardize any future hopes of getting one whereas telling the truth may only delay getting a visa and we can deal with that. She has written a letter of explanation regarding how and why she is a member of the CCP and that she would willingly relinquish any allegiance to such.

 

My questions are this: Has anyone had any experience with this matter and has it caused a delay (blue) or denial (white) paper during their interview? Has anyone had the same situation and received an approval (pink)? Would it be a good idea for her to include her letter of explanation with her P3 package when she returns it to the Embassy rather than be asked about it at the interview and not be able to show the letter? In general, how best to handle this?

 

Also, any other information relating to this subject that would help our situation would be greatly appreciated.

 

Best to all,

Bob

[xiaofeizhu]

Hello everyone,

 

I am a new member as of yesterday and this is my first post, I hope I'm placing it in the correct forum. My sweet fianc¨¦e Haiqing copied and pasted Brian's wonderful account of his fianc¨¦e's interview experience and sent it to me in an email which made me search out and find this website, thank you Brian. I've been reading many of the posts and I appreciate the many experiences and wealth of information available here. During my reading I came across something that has thrown up a red flag of concern for me. Under "links and resources" there is a pinned post titled "Interview Preparation, Kitchen Sink, questions, etc", under "Top 10 Most Common Questions" is number 10. Are you a communist? [Establishes any ineligibility] ... RED FLAG!!!

 

Here is the situation: My fianc¨¦e Haiqing is a member of the CCP (Chinese Communist Party). She has been a member for many years since she was in her last year of college where she did very well and it was strongly recommended to her that she join in order to secure a better job and ensure her future and being young at the time she joined. She has never been involved in the party other than paying dues. She has never been a director of any board nor attended any meetings or any other organized events. Her only purpose for being a member was to secure a better job which has allowed he to do better than she might have otherwise. She has stopped paying dues, even though this could jeopardize her job, as of January 23, 2008 when we sent in our I-129 K1/K2 visa package and from what I understand that since she has stopped paying dues her membership in the CCP will automatically expire at some point but I don't know when that is.

 

I have told her that if any of the forms ask if she is a member of the CCP to say yes and tell the truth and to also answer honestly to the VO during her interview or to anyone else at the US Embassy as lying will guarantee a denial of a visa and could jeopardize any future hopes of getting one whereas telling the truth may only delay getting a visa and we can deal with that. She has written a letter of explanation regarding how and why she is a member of the CCP and that she would willingly relinquish any allegiance to such.

 

My questions are this: Has anyone had any experience with this matter and has it caused a delay (blue) or denial (white) paper during their interview? Has anyone had the same situation and received an approval (pink)? Would it be a good idea for her to include her letter of explanation with her P3 package when she returns it to the Embassy rather than be asked about it at the interview and not be able to show the letter? In general, how best to handle this?

 

Also, any other information relating to this subject that would help our situation would be greatly appreciated.

 

Best to all,

Bob

 

 

Hi Bob!!

 

Welcome to CFL!!!! I am sorry I don't have personal experience with CCP membership, but I think there are ways to overcome. Many others with personal experience will come along soon. I just wanted to welcome you to CFL!! Good luck with the process!!

[bob&haiqing]

Thank you xiaofeizhu,

 

I'm glad to be here. I noticed that you are in Hawaii. My lovely fianc¨¦e Haiqing has a very good and close friend that just moved to Hawaii from Shenzhen last October and married a fellow there. Perhaps one day we can all get together and share stories of China, I'm sure my sweet Haiqing would enjoy it very much.

 

Best to you,

Bob

[xiaofeizhu]

Thank you xiaofeizhu,

 

I'm glad to be here. I noticed that you are in Hawaii. My lovely fianc¨¦e Haiqing has a very good and close friend that just moved to Hawaii from Shenzhen last October and married a fellow there. Perhaps one day we can all get together and share stories of China, I'm sure my sweet Haiqing would enjoy it very much.

 

Best to you,

Bob

 

Sounds great! I hope more people come along to answer your questions here!

 

But I see you found the other thread about the CCP so I think there is some good info there. Take care!

[dnoblett]

You may want to search around the site abit.

 

Several members have dealt with the CCP issue, it requires the filing of a waiver at the request of the counselor officer at visa interview time, it is a speed bump (Approx 4 months or so).

 

Here are a few examples:

 

http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=29202

 

Paula:

http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?...c=18469&hl=

http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?...c=21492&hl=

 

Mama bear:

http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?...c=21187&hl=

http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?...c=24087&hl=

[Tom and Ling]

Hi Bob,

 

Welcome to CFL...I think I posted my response to you in another posting...But I will say that on DS-157...this is a supplemental form it does ask about "Professional, social. or Charitable organizations.

I have ask people in my Lab. what do they think CCP would be considered and all have said "Social" as far as China goes..This is the only form I have looked at closely..since Ling was never a CCP member and When I go back in September , I intend on reaffirming this with her

because I don't want to be caught with my pants down..at Guangzhou...

 

My advice would have her officially quit, but if she can not than be prepared to hand write a strong letter as to why she could not quit...just my opionion

 

Tom and Ling

 

 

 

Hello everyone,

 

I am a new member as of yesterday and this is my first post, I hope I'm placing it in the correct forum. My sweet fianc¨¦e Haiqing copied and pasted Brian's wonderful account of his fianc¨¦e's interview experience and sent it to me in an email which made me search out and find this website, thank you Brian. I've been reading many of the posts and I appreciate the many experiences and wealth of information available here. During my reading I came across something that has thrown up a red flag of concern for me. Under "links and resources" there is a pinned post titled "Interview Preparation, Kitchen Sink, questions, etc", under "Top 10 Most Common Questions" is number 10. Are you a communist? [Establishes any ineligibility] ... RED FLAG!!!

 

Here is the situation: My fianc¨¦e Haiqing is a member of the CCP (Chinese Communist Party). She has been a member for many years since she was in her last year of college where she did very well and it was strongly recommended to her that she join in order to secure a better job and ensure her future and being young at the time she joined.

[dnoblett]

Note: For K-Visa applicants, GUZ does not use DS-230 part 2 which has the "Communist Party" questions, so in many cases the question does not come up at interview, however if the question is asked, the best thing to do is answer honestly, because if the visa is issued, and you lied to get it, and for any reason this lie comes to light later on, USCIS can revoke a green-card, and even can revoke citizenship due to misrepresentation.

 

For K-Visas this question WILL come up later on the I-485 form used to adjust status.

Edited July 8, 2008 by dnoblett (see edit history)

[Tom and Ling]

Hi dnoblett and Bob,

 

 

The DS-157...this is a supplemental form and it does ask about "Professional, social. or Charitable organizations.

This form has to be filled out by K1/K2 and K3/K4....so if CCP is considered a social organization by the Chinese or the American Gov. than this is a form that you have to fill out for your spouse's visa.

 

Tom and Ling

[Tom and Ling]

Hi everyone,

 

We can not seem to arrive at whether the CCP or CPC in China is also considered a social organization...we know it is a political party but can it be considered a "social organization".

So maybe the answer to question #13 on DS-157 would be NO if the CCP is not considered a "social organization".

 

Tom and Ling

 

 

 

 

 

Hi dnoblett and Bob,

 

 

The DS-157...this is a supplemental form and it does ask about "Professional, social. or Charitable organizations.

This form has to be filled out by K1/K2 and K3/K4....so if CCP is considered a social organization by the Chinese or the American Gov. than this is a form that you have to fill out for your spouse's visa.

 

Tom and Ling

[dnoblett]

Hi everyone,

 

We can not seem to arrive at whether the CCP or CPC in China is also considered a social organization...we know it is a political party but can it be considered a "social organization".

So maybe the answer to question #13 on DS-157 would be NO if the CCP is not considered a "social organization".

 

Tom and Ling

 

Hi dnoblett and Bob,

 

 

The DS-157...this is a supplemental form and it does ask about "Professional, social. or Charitable organizations.

This form has to be filled out by K1/K2 and K3/K4....so if CCP is considered a social organization by the Chinese or the American Gov. than this is a form that you have to fill out for your spouse's visa.

 

Tom and Ling

Yes it is gray here is China's take:

There are a large number of social organizations in China, of which the major ones are the All-China Federation of Trade Unions, the All-China Youth Federation, the All-China Women's Federation, and the All-China Federation of Industry and Commerce.

http://www.fmprc.gov.cn/eng/ljzg/zgjk/3579/t17851.htm

 

Being a member of one of the "Social Organizations" may or may not make a person a member of the communist party.

[bob&haiqing]

Hello Tom and dnoblett,

 

Yes, we have this topic going in two places at the moment, I posted here just a few hours before Hello123 posted the same topic in the other thread.

 

I did catch both your posts on the other thread and I'm certainly relieved that we should be able to avoid the DS-230 part II form, it's the DS-157 form that puts a potential stumbling block in our path with the "gray" area of what can be considered a correct answer. A false move now could come back to bite us later and I don't want that to happen hence my tendency to simply put the CCP on the form now and deal with it.

 

Anyway, thank you both for all your efforts and the links, I'll certainly check them out later tonight after I return from Tae Kwon Do ... now it's time to go kick the "gray" area out of something!

 

Best to all,

Bob

[number1poophead]

Hey Bob!

 

I've been reading more and more about this issue. I don't think we have to worry about the DS-157. They will find out anyways from GNI-2.

I don't think the CCP is a social organization because question 7 on GNI-2 states "social" and "political" as separate things.

 

"List all organizations or political parties you are now or have been a member of or affiliated with since your sixteenth birthday. Include professional, vocational, social, and political organizations."

 

I think that answers the question of the "gray area". But we still must answer this question...

[bob&haiqing]

Hello nabeshin,

 

I agree and have come to the same conclusion myself after comparing the DS-157 and GNI-2 forms.

 

I have to believe that whichever US agency is responsible for creating these forms knows what they are asking for and because they ask it differently on both forms, logically it implies a difference. As far as these forms are concerned, it's not important what the Chinese government considers the CCP, only what the US government considers the CCP and the best I can surmise by the way the questions are asked on both those forms that the US government would consider the CCP a political organization and not a social organization unless of course one makes the argument that it is both but then it becomes a "gray" area again and since I don't feel qualified to define this "gray" area I will have to answer the questions at face value in a black or white, yes or no mode and leave it at that.

 

So, what that means for my sweet fianc¨¦e Haiqing and myself is that we will not list the CCP on form DS-157 because its most accurate definition would be considered a political and not a social organization (black or white answer). We will list the CCP on the GNI-2 form which is the honest answer because the form specifically asks for past or current memberships in political organizations. If she is asked during her interview about current membership the honest answer is "no". If she is asked during her interview about past membership the honest answer is "yes" and that is the response we are focusing on explaining with documentation.

 

If the VO is satisfied with our documentation and we get a pink that would be great, if they need more explanation and we get a blue we can deal with that. Based upon other posts I have read on CFL I don't see any reason why we should get a white denial on the CCP issue alone because she is well within the parameters of being an "involuntary member for sake of employment".

 

I have one more post to write on this issue regarding the Chinese rules for CCP membership and the type of documentation we are compiling for our statement of explanation which I will do this weekend. Hopefully this will help others here in choosing a direction in dealing with the CCP membership issue.

 

If anyone sees any holes in my logic please do me a big favor and blast away now! I'd rather deal with the "hard" questions now amongst friends than to be blind sided later!

 

Best of luck,

Bob

[number1poophead]

Hello nabeshin,

 

I agree and have come to the same conclusion myself after comparing the DS-157 and GNI-2 forms.

 

I have to believe that whichever US agency is responsible for creating these forms knows what they are asking for and because they ask it differently on both forms, logically it implies a difference. As far as these forms are concerned, it's not important what the Chinese government considers the CCP, only what the US government considers the CCP and the best I can surmise by the way the questions are asked on both those forms that the US government would consider the CCP a political organization and not a social organization unless of course one makes the argument that it is both but then it becomes a "gray" area again and since I don't feel qualified to define this "gray" area I will have to answer the questions at face value in a black or white, yes or no mode and leave it at that.

 

So, what that means for my sweet fianc¨¦e Haiqing and myself is that we will not list the CCP on form DS-157 because its most accurate definition would be considered a political and not a social organization (black or white answer). We will list the CCP on the GNI-2 form which is the honest answer because the form specifically asks for past or current memberships in political organizations. If she is asked during her interview about current membership the honest answer is "no". If she is asked during her interview about past membership the honest answer is "yes" and that is the response we are focusing on explaining with documentation.

 

If the VO is satisfied with our documentation and we get a pink that would be great, if they need more explanation and we get a blue we can deal with that. Based upon other posts I have read on CFL I don't see any reason why we should get a white denial on the CCP issue alone because she is well within the parameters of being an "involuntary member for sake of employment".

 

I have one more post to write on this issue regarding the Chinese rules for CCP membership and the type of documentation we are compiling for our statement of explanation which I will do this weekend. Hopefully this will help others here in choosing a direction in dealing with the CCP membership issue.

 

If anyone sees any holes in my logic please do me a big favor and blast away now! I'd rather deal with the "hard" questions now amongst friends than to be blind sided later!

 

Best of luck,

Bob

 

I look forward to seeing what you're compiling. I've been wondering about what evidence to gather myself.

[Bill & Angel]

Hello everyone,

 

I am a new member as of yesterday and this is my first post, I hope I'm placing it in the correct forum. My sweet fianc¨¦e Haiqing copied and pasted Brian's wonderful account of his fianc¨¦e's interview experience and sent it to me in an email which made me search out and find this website, thank you Brian. I've been reading many of the posts and I appreciate the many experiences and wealth of information available here. During my reading I came across something that has thrown up a red flag of concern for me. Under "links and resources" there is a pinned post titled "Interview Preparation, Kitchen Sink, questions, etc", under "Top 10 Most Common Questions" is number 10. Are you a communist? [Establishes any ineligibility] ... RED FLAG!!!

 

Here is the situation: My fianc¨¦e Haiqing is a member of the CCP (Chinese Communist Party). She has been a member for many years since she was in her last year of college where she did very well and it was strongly recommended to her that she join in order to secure a better job and ensure her future and being young at the time she joined. She has never been involved in the party other than paying dues. She has never been a director of any board nor attended any meetings or any other organized events. Her only purpose for being a member was to secure a better job which has allowed he to do better than she might have otherwise. She has stopped paying dues, even though this could jeopardize her job, as of January 23, 2008 when we sent in our I-129 K1/K2 visa package and from what I understand that since she has stopped paying dues her membership in the CCP will automatically expire at some point but I don't know when that is.

 

I have told her that if any of the forms ask if she is a member of the CCP to say yes and tell the truth and to also answer honestly to the VO during her interview or to anyone else at the US Embassy as lying will guarantee a denial of a visa and could jeopardize any future hopes of getting one whereas telling the truth may only delay getting a visa and we can deal with that. She has written a letter of explanation regarding how and why she is a member of the CCP and that she would willingly relinquish any allegiance to such.

 

My questions are this: Has anyone had any experience with this matter and has it caused a delay (blue) or denial (white) paper during their interview? Has anyone had the same situation and received an approval (pink)? Would it be a good idea for her to include her letter of explanation with her P3 package when she returns it to the Embassy rather than be asked about it at the interview and not be able to show the letter? In general, how best to handle this?

 

Also, any other information relating to this subject that would help our situation would be greatly appreciated.

 

Best to all,

Bob

 

Welcome to CFL Bob!

 

Not an expert on overcoming the CCP thing, but many others have overcome this snag. My situation is interesting in that my fiancee is a government worker, and she happens to be the *only* one in her office that is *not* member of the CCP. I guess her coworkers teased her about that for awhile, but her reason was simply that she did not want to pay dues. I think most people in China look at the CCP simply as an organization that charges dues, or in the case of your girl, an organization that can help you get a job. Most Chinese have great pride in their country, but I'm not so sure they have great pride in (or even any understanding of) the CCP.