Bigger baby crisis

[robhon]

Just got off the phone with my wife and she's a bit freaked out, and for good reason. Some government person called her parents house saying that Youyue needs to provide documentation that the father of the child has no other children. This person said if she can't provide this information she will lose the baby (as in, terminate the pregnancy).

 

As you can well guess I'm a bit flipped out over this prospect at the moment. Youyue seems fairly calm about it because she thinks after she goes back to Chongqing on Sunday to stay with her aunt everything will be okay (her parents live in Hechuan, 45 mins north).

 

Apparently her mother was yelling at this government person on the phone saying things like, "But she's more than 8 months pregnant!" and "The father is in America, how can we provide such documents?" And I told her, "We don't have a one baby rule in America so there's no such document that would say that I DON'T have other children."

 

This is just crazy! Hell, maybe it's just some lunatic who thinks they can extort some money out of the situation.

 

I contacted my lawyer last week to find out what I'm supposed to do about the baby being born in China and she's yet to find out. Tomorrow she's getting an earful.

[Mick]

Good grief!!!!!

 

This is absolute insanity! It is certainly possible that someone is trying to make some money here. Please keep us posted as to what happens. Hopefully your lawyer can be of help. If not, this seems like the kind of situation that should force GZ to make a move. I would suggest you contact the Consulate and inform them of the situation. Even if they chose to do nothing, you have it on record that they in fact chose to do nothing. I should think, however, they would speed things up in your behalf given the grave possibilities at hand. Again Rob, please keep us posted.

[tunger88]

I am totally agree with Mick. Rob, send emails, phone calls ect.. to GZ and tell them the situation you have in hands. Again, there's nothing in China money can't fix. But I would definitely try all you can to contact GZ to state your problem and let them know so may be they can expedite your case.

[robhon]

I'm going to be very busy here for a while. I'm going to be calling and emailing everone on the planet.

 

Last time I contacted GZ they just said that they don't have my case yet. It's still at NVC. But, hell, if this continues at all I'm flying over there, taking her down the consulate myself and applying for assylum.

 

I've told her to go out immediately and buy a tape recorder. If this person calls again I want evidence of what is said.

 

Regardless of whether this government person is serious or not, I have to take this as a threat against our childs life. I have no option to do otherwise.

[tonado]

This is nuts. Hope you and your wife can get rid of this nasty person.

[PJ]

Wow, this is really an insane situation.

 

That does sound like a more than valid reason to apply for asylum, if this threat is in fact real and not simply a ploy to get a payoff.

 

I cannot believe that someone would seek to leverage such a situation for financial gains, but then again, there are some very unscrupulous people in this world.

 

:lol:

 

Please keep us updated, and let us know if there is anything we can do to help.

 

P.J.

[PJ]

This just really, really bothers me to hear about such a situation. I mean, I've always believed that the horrendous delays were unjust, but this goes far beyond and beneath unjust.

 

I honestly do hope that it's just some lunatic, as you mentioned it may be, so you can simply tell him to get lost. However, if it does turn out to be more than that, I know that all of us here would definitely help you in any way that we can.

[robhon]

One of the things that concerns me most is that, so far my wife hasn't said that they asked for any money. We even discussed some things I've heard about what people in China pay the government to have a second or third child.

[Dave G.]

Rob,

 

WOW. If it aint' one thing, it's another. I'm so sorry you have to cope with yet another stressor. I can only imagine that the situation has taken away from what should be a joyeous time.

 

Let's see if we all agree to our understanding of Chinese law:

 

- Each married couple is allowed one child.

- More than one results in fines and if you work for a company, the husband will be terminated.

- If the couple has no child and they divorce, each are free to have a child in their next marriage.

- If they have one child and divorce, they are free to remarry. If the new spouse has a child, they may not have a child together without penalty.

- If the new spouse has no child, the couple may have one more child.

 

I don't know exactly what your situation is. If you have no children, then you are permitted one in your new marriage regardless of whether your wife had one before (I seem to recall she has a daughter...right?)

 

Bottom line: play the game like the Chinese. Here's my idea. Regardless of the situation, type out and sign a statement that you've never been married before and have no child (if your divorced, state that because they likely already know). Go to a place like Mail Boxes Etc. and have it notorized (they'll notorize anything just like the Chinese gov does). Get on one of the translation websites and generate a Chinese language version and notorize that too. Fax/express mail/whatever the forms to your wife. She explains this is our official document and they won't know what they have. If she can react matter of factly about it, I think she can call their bluff.

 

If all else fails, your wife reminds them the baby's father will carry your name. An American name. As such, it is not subjected to Chinese law. If they choose to create an international crisis over the murder of an American...an unborn American, they may want to think it through more carefully.

 

Besides, Jing Mei said China won't terminate after three months. After that, she said even China thinks it's akin to murder. Or, maybe that's just Jing Mei.

 

One last idea.......you don't have to deal with GZ on this. Any embassy/cousulate can register a birth. Maybe the staff at Chengdu are more reasonable. And, it's closer to her home.

 

Sorry...that's the best I can come up with at this time of morning. Let us know if there's anything we can do. I'll discuss the problem with Jing Mei in a couple of hours and see what she thinks. I'll also see if she has some of her "special friends" in the government who can help. Like we've shared, they're somewhat close to each other. If you want to email me your wife's phone number, maybe Jing Mei can also help problem solve. She has a unique gift for knowing how to beat the system. She's remarkable!

 

Good luck!

 

Dave

[Dave G.]

Damn....can't get back to sleep now. One last thing. Get the man's name, rank, and serial number. Pass that on to our embassies. Make the guy lose face.

[owenkrout]

My original advice becomes even more important at this point. Go back to China and register a legal marriage to her. Once that is done, she is not subject to the one child policy.

 

The one child policy doesn't apply across the board. The areas that are strictest on it are the larger cities. Peasants are allowed to have a second child if the first is not a son. Some areas simply don't enforce the rule very closely. People often employ ploys to get around the rules. Officials are paid off, or children are not registered. Sometimes children are simply not registered with the government. Sometimes children are registered under the name of another family member who has no children. Sometimes families move and register multiple children each under different provinces or cities. Ethnic minorities are not bound by the one child policy. Foreigners are not bound by it. Not just speculating here, I know of more than one family that has used one of these ploys to get around the rule. One person that I know of has five girls and still intends to try to have a boy. Two of the girls managed to get a college education. Also officially not possible.

 

Another immediate ploy to keep her and the child safe from the government unit that wants to enforce the policy is to have her move in with other relatives in a different city or preferably a different province and in a city that is more lax in enforcement of the National Governments decrees. Government is actually not as centralized in China as it is in the US. Cities and even provinces don't cooperate with each other very well at all.

 

The best solution is to as immediately as possible get yourself back and register a marriage.

[owenkrout]

Damn....can't get back to sleep now.  One last thing.  Get the man's name, rank, and serial number.  Pass that on to our embassies.  Make the guy lose face.

Until they are married he will not be losing any face. He will be doing his job admirably by preventing dilution of the race. Feelings run very strong in China against unmarried women who consort with foreigners. Even my wife gets insults directed at her occassionally about being with a foreign devil. Mick, I imagine you can confirm that it happened with your wife also.

[Dave G.]

Until they are married he will not be losing any face.  He will be doing his job admirably by preventing dilution of the race.  Feelings run very strong in China against unmarried women who consort with foreigners.

That's only have of the equation. This man is suggesting taking a life of a future American citizen. To complete the equation, Rob needs to exert his right via the embassy and make them influence the process. We all experience the frustrations of waiting for visas. That affects our quality of life. This situation involves life and death. I would hope this case would deserve priority status.

 

In my opinion, the man has picked a fight. Not with Rob and his wife, but between China and the US. We all know the position the US takes on China's practices where children are concerned. The man will lose face when he...his country...loses the fight. Rob needs to get this in our papers, news outlets, CNN, etc. Trust me....although China controls the press, everyone knows everything anyway.

[Robert S.]

If you marry her in the government marriage office she will automatically get a special paper saying she is authorized to have another child.

[robhon]

Thanks for all the advice, gang! I'm sure we'll get through this one way or another.

 

The marriage thing is a non-issue. We were married in CQ in Nov '02.

 

I've given my wife a few instructions like getting a tape recording of this person if they call back, as I'm sure we'll need proof at some point. I also told her, if this person becomes aggressive about the issue, she should immediately fly to Shenzhen and I'll come meet her at the hotel where we stayed before.

 

She seems pretty confident that going to CQ will fix the problem. Out of the guy's jurisdiction, I guess. But I'm not taking any chances on this.

 

In terms of trying to provide documentation, I will put together a document and get it notorized but I have the feeling that's not what he really wants. For this to come up at all there has to be something else going on. He either wants money or he's maybe seen me and Youyue happily strolling along hand-in-hand in Hechuan and it pissed him off. I have run into a couple of people in China who flat out hate Americans. Maybe he's one of them. When someone goes so far as to threaten the life of a baby I'm just not sure that anything will satisfy them.

 

Gonna be a big day!