denial because of language barrier

[shyaushu]

There is a rhyme and reason, Paul, and to find them just look at some of the previous posts.

 

The US government considers its efforts to prevent the "browning" of America a lost cause, and the Miami-based Cuban lobby is a squeaky wheel, if there ever was one. (The irony of that situation is that our Cuban immigration policy is the perfect way to get a Cuban criminal or subversive here. Just drop him off somewhere a north Florida beach and we will welcome him with hot coffee and blankets).

 

The "reason" for all this idiocy is that the US government thinks it may be able to prevent the further "yellowing" of America, especially when it looks at the 1.3 billion people here in China. It's a frightening number, for sure. So, it figures making life as difficult as possible for most Asians to come to the US is a good idea.

 

The only reason you are confused is because you are operating under the assumption the US government's visa policy is well-intended and in good faith. It is not. It is the US's immigration policies, and in particular the Chinese CR-1 visa process, that is not bona fide! It is meant to exclude all those it can manage to exclude (not just "scammers" or others trying to get into the US by deception), and not provide a way for the legitimate spouse's of American citizens here so they can live their lives as all other married couples do.

 

Who speaks for us in Congress (the US citizens who have married Asian nationals)? No one. That's why things haven't changed.

 

 

 

I am curious if anyone knows if other consulates in other parts of the world are as tough as Guangzhou?

I do not read VJ but have not read much in the news either if others having same problems.

 

Our immigration policies in this country as so archaic in many ways. Mexicans can cross at will., Then have to leave if caught. Cubans can stay if their feet touch american soil.

Illegals get amnesty

But if you do things the proper way, you are crucified and vilified. No rhyme nor reason.

 

Paul

Edited April 3, 2008 by shyaushu (see edit history)

[credzba]

I am curious if anyone knows if other consulates in other parts of the world are as tough as Guangzhou?

 

 

I do not know first hand, but from vj I don't see other groups worrying about passing the interview. In fact I have never seen it even mentioned as a risk. In fact our cold war enemy Russia has an easier time than China.

 

NVC operator told me "Guangzhou is the slowest consulate in the world".

I tried one day to find another consulate that was still "standard" processing. Almost all now have their interview appointments scheduled by NVC, the consulate just does the interview.

China is still standard processing, and I think I found a very small country in Africa.. not certain.

 

I wrote to my senator, not to get the status of my case. I told him I KNEW the status of my case, I needed an interview date.

My point in the letter was that the consulate in China is broken in many ways.

1) It is either understaffed, or not working productively because it is 4 - 6 month behind on processing interviews.

2) 1/4 of the world population live in china, and all interviews are carried out at a single consulate. India has a similar number of people, and has 3 or 4 interview consulates. It is unreasonable for our spouses to have to travel across they country when there is an American consulate 1 hour away.

 

 

I don't think my letter to my senator will help my case, I will be finished before he gets back to me (I hope). What I do hope is enough pressure on our elected officials will get the system changed so in the future it will be a fair and equitable system.

[chilton747]

The state of Georgia is actively seeking business relations with China. We have 4 Chinese factories here and our governor is trying to get more. He was aboard the inaugural flight from Atlanta to Shanghai. Georgia also has a bid on the next Chinese Consulate being located here.

Perhaps I can contact someone on the state level and make the wheel squeak a little. It won't hurt to try.

[hopelives]

Well, I can hardly blame the Mexicans and Central Americans, really. Who wouldn't travel somewhere else if life there was much better? We did the same thing here: our life living and teaching in Henan Province was the pits and now that we are living in Guangzhou and teaching at a university it's like we died and went to heaven. We just didn't have to break any laws to do it.

 

The confusion regarding their resorting to such absurdities as "not a bona fide relationship" comes from a fundamental misunderstanding regarding what GUZ does. For, instead of being the diligent, hard-working public servants we pay them to be, they are actually in the business of keeping as many people (Chinese and most other Asians) out of the US on whatever pretext they can conjure up. They are not working for the American people: they are working for the Executive branch.

 

If they were doing the job we pay them to do they would look closely at each person's (too many) application forms, check all of the information, cash our checks (again, way too much), and grant a visa to any and every foreign spouse of an American citizen who completed everything properly, paid all the (way too expensive) fees, and in whose applications there was nothing objective that raised doubts.

 

Since there's precious little of that stuff (objective, hard evidence that fraud or deception is going on), they work hard instead to offer any plausible denial they can and, if they had it their way, no visas would ever be granted. But the American people and Congress would raise the roof if they did that, of course, because Congress passed a number of laws that requires the Executive branch to issue immigration visas to the spouses of American citizens. So, they try to issue the minimum number possible ~ just enough to prevent raised eyebrows or Congressional investigations.

 

The real reason they offer us such drivel as "not a boa fide" relationship and the related bullshit is because they have NOTHING objective in the application upon which to base the denial they want to issue, so they resort to subjective assessments. They "don't like the way two people met" or there are not enough photos of the two of them in dreamlike adoration of each other. Meeting on the Internet is "bad"; meeting at a church social is "good." Even meeting through mutual friends is suspect: hell, the "mutual friend" was actually a sort of marriage pimp!

 

That's why all this primping and fretting about how to look and what to say in the interview is so silly, really. None of that matters. It is based on the assumption that getting an immigration visa is like getting a driver's license.

 

To get a license you pass the written test (objective), pass the eye exam (objective) and then pass the driving test (semi-objective) and they issue you a license. The driving examiners do not resort to such childishness as saying "I didn't believe the applicant was confident enough behind the wheel" or "They really don't appear to be old enough to drive." You pays your money and you gets your license.

 

The visa officials (and more to the point, their handlers) are intent on doing everything they can to cut down on immigration and "fairness" or objectivity are not in their vocabulary. Believing they are sincere or straight up in their work is a dangerous self-deception. We all just hope and pray we are among the ones they decide to let pass so they can keep congress off their backs.

 

The wonderful work that everyone on the Candle does is great, but it is focused entirely on the margins: helping people understand the (purposely-complicated and bizarre) process; learning about the time frames; helping fill out the many forms (one would suffice), etc. It definitely helps many people in these things, but a real impact on the unconscionable immigration process as practiced by the USCIS will not occur without a fundamental change of focus.

this hits it out of the park-process the paperwork-issue the visa-extensive interview before the 10 year-so simple

[tsap seui]

There is a rhyme and reason, Paul, and to find them just look at some of the previous posts.

 

The US government considers its efforts to prevent the "browning" of America a lost cause, and the Miami-based Cuban lobby is a squeaky wheel, if there ever was one. (The irony of that situation is that our Cuban immigration policy is the perfect way to get a Cuban criminal or subversive here. Just drop him off somewhere a north Florida beach and we will welcome him with hot coffee and blankets).

 

The "reason" for all this idiocy is that the US government thinks it may be able to prevent the further "yellowing" of America, especially when it looks at the 1.3 billion people here in China. It's a frightening number, for sure. So, it figures making life as difficult as possible for most Asians to come to the US is a good idea.

 

The only reason you are confused is because you are operating under the assumption the US government's visa policy is well-intended and in good faith. It is not. It is the US's immigration policies, and in particular the Chinese CR-1 visa process, that is not bona fide! It is meant to exclude all those it can manage to exclude (not just "scammers" or others trying to get into the US by deception), and not provide a way for the legitimate spouse's of American citizens here so they can live their lives as all other married couples do.

 

Who speaks for us in Congress (the US citizens who have married Asian nationals)? No one. That's why things haven't changed.

 

 

 

I am curious if anyone knows if other consulates in other parts of the world are as tough as Guangzhou?

I do not read VJ but have not read much in the news either if others having same problems.

 

Our immigration policies in this country as so archaic in many ways. Mexicans can cross at will., Then have to leave if caught. Cubans can stay if their feet touch american soil.

Illegals get amnesty

But if you do things the proper way, you are crucified and vilified. No rhyme nor reason.

 

Paul

 

 

GREAT thoughts and writing Shyaushu. The points you are making are impeccable.

 

GUZ is broken beyond belief...and there's absolutely NO ONE to turn to for help. Letters to Congressmen and the President...wind up with "jokes" for responces, as I've posted my replys from my Congressman, and the reply from my letter to the President (which came from a "chief" at the State Department.)

 

That letter actually clearly explained that our constitutional rights are stripped when dealing with the consulate in China (GUZ) and it clearly states the fact that we have NO RECOURSE to the decision of your interviewing VO...NONE BABY!!!!! And the CLUCKERS IN GUZ KNOW THIS!!!!!

 

If your love gets a visa issued from GUZ consider yourself LUCKY, cause that's all it is... a stroke of LUCK... no matter how smart you think you are or how well you filled out the forms.

 

An insidious lil' game is being played out by grocery clerks in GUZ...and nobody's watching over them.

 

Good "luck" to everyone...it's the only REAL tool you have when dealing with GUZ.

 

tsap seui

Edited April 3, 2008 by tsap seui (see edit history)

[david_dawei]

I certainly understand some of the more cynical points being made, but not sure I really agree with them. The US government is not out to deny people immigration benefits as much as it is there to ensure proper eligibility for benefits... but again, I think it is the volume and the pragmatism of chinese which makes it close to impossible in this day and age to truly get a system to really operate properly... If they were really after after scammers, I could think of better ways than the present system to find them; but the fact is an overhaul is long overdue and will not happen anytime soon... When one needs to mend a fence, they tie it up first; tie it up stronger second... but the last thought is to trash the entire fence and replace it with a better one...

 

For those who have been caught in the jagged edges of the fence which has not been mended properly, I truly feel bad for... and CFL is the place to be for both those trying to navigate the waters and those who have been bitten by the sharks... What keeps us uniquely together is that we can know that not even a outdated fence can truly separate us from someone on the other side we are waiting one.

[shyaushu]

Your comments are quite interesting, David. I really need to check in a dictionary to be sure, but tellin' it like it is wasn't part of any definition of "cynical" the last time I looked. It reminds me of the story about the "Emperor's New Clothes". But this time a bystander shouts "How can that little boy be so cynical?" when he states the obvious. The only thing cynical here are the people in the State Department, and especially those in the Executive branch.

 

Oh, they all certainly talk the talk ("we're here to ensure proper eligibility") but the walk they walk is doing everything they can to make getting a visa an expensive Kafkaesque nightmare. Congress did not legislate the ridiculously complicated and duplicative forms they require (except for the I-864), or anything else about the actual process, and their resorting to all manner of subjective and opinionated assessments when making a "decision" is simply a lot of crap. What exactly are they deciding, anyway? Someone's "eligibility"? Really! Why haven't they already decided that after we filled out 400 forms and paid them $1,000?

 

No, a 5 or 10 minute "interview" ~ conducted from behind 2" of bullet proof glass, with a tiny slot for inserting documents ~ is now going to provide the visa official with new and critical information. Such as what? Whether my wife is a little too cute to be simply in love with her husband? Whether she is dressed too well for her socio-economic status in China? Whether she "looks" like a scammer? Indeed! Exactly what are they expecting to learn from behind their glass fortress that will provide the "smoking gun" of visa fraud that they don't already know?

 

As for your comments about "the volume and the pragmatism of [the] Chinese" making it close to impossible to get a system to operate properly, you'll have to explain that one to me. I have no idea what you are talking about. Five minutes in the Citizen's Services section of the Consulate is enough to tell you the US government calls the shots in there. They do whatever they want.

 

Your final comments regarding the excellent and extremely valuable work everyone does on the Candle is certainly true, and I said as much in my little piece. But it is a little like wishing a man on the gallows good luck.

 

The next step for the Candle is to start a grass roots political action group that will lobby Congress to exercise much greater oversight of the CR-1 and K visa processes, and to make the executive branch live up to the standard the American people expect. That is, simply, you fill out one or two simple forms, pay a reasonable fee, and, if there is nothing objective in your application that speaks of fraud or deception, the USCIS MUST issue the visa. It must be a transparent and totally objective process. Someone's feelings, even a visa official's, don't count.

 

The Cuban lobby, the gun lobby, the AARP did it; why can't we?

 

I certainly understand some of the more cynical points being made, but not sure I really agree with them. The US government is not out to deny people immigration benefits as much as it is there to ensure proper eligibility for benefits... but again, I think it is the volume and the pragmatism of chinese which makes it close to impossible in this day and age to truly get a system to really operate properly... If they were really after after scammers, I could think of better ways than the present system to find them; but the fact is an overhaul is long overdue and will not happen anytime soon... When one needs to mend a fence, they tie it up first; tie it up stronger second... but the last thought is to trash the entire fence and replace it with a better one...

 

For those who have been caught in the jagged edges of the fence which has not been mended properly, I truly feel bad for... and CFL is the place to be for both those trying to navigate the waters and those who have been bitten by the sharks... What keeps us uniquely together is that we can know that not even a outdated fence can truly separate us from someone on the other side we are waiting one.

Edited April 3, 2008 by shyaushu (see edit history)

[credzba]

 

The next step for the Candle is to start a grass roots political action group that will lobby Congress to exercise much greater oversight of the CR-1 and K visa processes, and to make the executive branch live up to the standard the American people expect. That is, simply, you fill out one or two simple forms, pay a reasonable fee, and, if there is nothing objective in your application that speaks of fraud or deception, the USCIS MUST issue the visa. It must be a transparent and totally objective process. Someone's feelings, even a visa official's, don't count.

 

The Cuban lobby, the gun lobby, the AARP did it; why can't we?

 

Oh Oh ! Call on me lao shi! I can answer this one.

We can't because ..

AARP - once your old you stay old until you die, so your interest in mending the system continues.

Cuban - Once your born Cuban, you remain Cuban until you die, so your interest in mending the system continues.

Gun Lobby - Once your born redneck, you remain so even AFTER death ... (I dunno about these folks really).

Petitioner/Applicant - Ends the day you get the pink or white paper. The nightmare for you ends, and continuing to fight with the government can only have negative consequences for you.

 

 

btw. I am not cynical, I am an activist.

[moonglare]

I was reading another persons post and his wife or fiancee was denied at her interview because she could not speak english. I am worried now for the same reason. Yulan and I have to use a translator to communicate and we are working on her English skills but I am worried that she to will get denied because she can not speak English fluently. We have not received our NOA2 so what should we do to prepare her for the interview.

 

 

I strongly recommend that you cover your base and start learning Mandarin. You are waiting for NOA2, which means her inverview will be in five months from now.

 

That is enough time to learn just enough to produce a five-minute video of yourself giving an introduction in Mandarin, if you should need it for overcome evidence.

 

Learning each other¡¯s language together is a lot of fun. You should only focus on speaking which you can learn from a CD, DVD, class, or private tutor.

[shyaushu]

"Oh Oh ! Call on me lao shi! I can answer this one.

We can't because ..

AARP - once your old you stay old until you die, so your interest in mending the system continues.

Cuban - Once your born Cuban, you remain Cuban until you die, so your interest in mending the system continues.

Gun Lobby - Once your born redneck, you remain so even AFTER death ... (I dunno about these folks really).

 

Petitioner/Applicant - Ends the day you get the pink or white paper. The nightmare for you ends, and continuing to fight with the government can only have negative consequences for you.

 

btw. I am not cynical, I am an activist."

 

Good job, Grasshopper. Yes, that is surely why the Candle folks have continued to bury their heads in the sands of visa denial. You get your death sentence and the forked road ahead is bleak: a solitary life in the US, with as many cross Pacific trips as you can afford each year, or a life as an ex-patriot in a country where the average person sees you as some kind of two-headed calf (never just another human being).

 

So, it will take some truly selfless work on the part of everyone, including those who have been successful, to continue their dedication to reforming this monstrosity.

[dcwfn]

 

The next step for the Candle is to start a grass roots political action group that will lobby Congress to exercise much greater oversight of the CR-1 and K visa processes, and to make the executive branch live up to the standard the American people expect. That is, simply, you fill out one or two simple forms, pay a reasonable fee, and, if there is nothing objective in your application that speaks of fraud or deception, the USCIS MUST issue the visa. It must be a transparent and totally objective process. Someone's feelings, even a visa official's, don't count.

 

The Cuban lobby, the gun lobby, the AARP did it; why can't we?

 

Oh Oh ! Call on me lao shi! I can answer this one.

We can't because ..

AARP - once your old you stay old until you die, so your interest in mending the system continues.

Cuban - Once your born Cuban, you remain Cuban until you die, so your interest in mending the system continues.

Gun Lobby - Once your born redneck, you remain so even AFTER death ... (I dunno about these folks really).

Petitioner/Applicant - Ends the day you get the pink or white paper. The nightmare for you ends, and continuing to fight with the government can only have negative consequences for you.

 

 

btw. I am not cynical, I am an activist.

AARP - once your old you stay old until you die, so your interest in mending the system continues.

Gun Lobby - Once your born redneck, you remain so even AFTER death ... (I dunno about these folks really).

 

AARP: Yep, I'm old enough to be an AARP member.

Gun Lobby: Redneck? I don't know about that but I do own a PA-63 and the answer is yes to both questions. I have a CWP and, it stays loaded.

[Guest Rob & Jin]

 

The next step for the Candle is to start a grass roots political action group that will lobby Congress to exercise much greater oversight of the CR-1 and K visa processes, and to make the executive branch live up to the standard the American people expect. That is, simply, you fill out one or two simple forms, pay a reasonable fee, and, if there is nothing objective in your application that speaks of fraud or deception, the USCIS MUST issue the visa. It must be a transparent and totally objective process. Someone's feelings, even a visa official's, don't count.

 

The Cuban lobby, the gun lobby, the AARP did it; why can't we?

 

Oh Oh ! Call on me lao shi! I can answer this one.

We can't because ..

AARP - once your old you stay old until you die, so your interest in mending the system continues.

Cuban - Once your born Cuban, you remain Cuban until you die, so your interest in mending the system continues.

Gun Lobby - Once your born redneck, you remain so even AFTER death ... (I dunno about these folks really).

Petitioner/Applicant - Ends the day you get the pink or white paper. The nightmare for you ends, and continuing to fight with the government can only have negative consequences for you.

 

 

btw. I am not cynical, I am an activist.

AARP - once your old you stay old until you die, so your interest in mending the system continues.

Gun Lobby - Once your born redneck, you remain so even AFTER death ... (I dunno about these folks really).

 

AARP: Yep, I'm old enough to be an AARP member.

Gun Lobby: Redneck? I don't know about that but I do own a PA-63 and the answer is yes to both questions. I have a CWP and, it stays loaded.

 

 

lets stay on post it's a important discussion, not about AARP

[N&J]

I am curious if anyone knows if other consulates in other parts of the world are as tough as Guangzhou?

 

 

I do not know first hand, but from vj I don't see other groups worrying about passing the interview. In fact I have never seen it even mentioned as a risk. In fact our cold war enemy Russia has an easier time than China.

 

NVC operator told me "Guangzhou is the slowest consulate in the world".

I tried one day to find another consulate that was still "standard" processing. Almost all now have their interview appointments scheduled by NVC, the consulate just does the interview.

China is still standard processing, and I think I found a very small country in Africa.. not certain.

 

I wrote to my senator, not to get the status of my case. I told him I KNEW the status of my case, I needed an interview date.

My point in the letter was that the consulate in China is broken in many ways.

1) It is either understaffed, or not working productively because it is 4 - 6 month behind on processing interviews.

2) 1/4 of the world population live in china, and all interviews are carried out at a single consulate. India has a similar number of people, and has 3 or 4 interview consulates. It is unreasonable for our spouses to have to travel across they country when there is an American consulate 1 hour away.

 

 

I don't think my letter to my senator will help my case, I will be finished before he gets back to me (I hope). What I do hope is enough pressure on our elected officials will get the system changed so in the future it will be a fair and equitable system.

 

credzba

 

your case got through the DHL gauntlet really quickly.

I see other shipments from December still in customs.

You got the magic touch?

[dcwfn]

 

The next step for the Candle is to start a grass roots political action group that will lobby Congress to exercise much greater oversight of the CR-1 and K visa processes, and to make the executive branch live up to the standard the American people expect. That is, simply, you fill out one or two simple forms, pay a reasonable fee, and, if there is nothing objective in your application that speaks of fraud or deception, the USCIS MUST issue the visa. It must be a transparent and totally objective process. Someone's feelings, even a visa official's, don't count.

 

The Cuban lobby, the gun lobby, the AARP did it; why can't we?

 

Oh Oh ! Call on me lao shi! I can answer this one.

We can't because ..

AARP - once your old you stay old until you die, so your interest in mending the system continues.

Cuban - Once your born Cuban, you remain Cuban until you die, so your interest in mending the system continues.

Gun Lobby - Once your born redneck, you remain so even AFTER death ... (I dunno about these folks really).

Petitioner/Applicant - Ends the day you get the pink or white paper. The nightmare for you ends, and continuing to fight with the government can only have negative consequences for you.

 

 

btw. I am not cynical, I am an activist.

AARP - once your old you stay old until you die, so your interest in mending the system continues.

Gun Lobby - Once your born redneck, you remain so even AFTER death ... (I dunno about these folks really).

 

AARP: Yep, I'm old enough to be an AARP member.

Gun Lobby: Redneck? I don't know about that but I do own a PA-63 and the answer is yes to both questions. I have a CWP and, it stays loaded.

 

 

lets stay on post it's a important discussion, not about AARP B)

It was only a joke........... We all need dose of humor once in a while.

[credzba]

credzba

 

your case got through the DHL gauntlet really quickly.

I see other shipments from December still in customs.

You got the magic touch?

 

No, in fact I need to go update my signature.

You see, it seems the NVC operator was mistaken.

 

My file is "loaded" meaning the Guangzhou people have my papers safely stored in some dark corner.