Jay & Ping Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 I've been in manufacturing for 30 years. I've seen some really stupid things in the US, but nothing like my trips to China. I evaluate manufacturers for our supply chain. Quality is the biggest issue lately. Price was yesterday. I am happy to say that ethics and worker safety are beginning to get some exposure. I have videos of workers sitting inside 300 ton presses while they are operating. This press is stamping out steel pots. There are three guys inside (on seats) lifting the parts from one station to the next. No one injured in the video, but I could see that it wouldn't be that way forever Yes, there are a lot of Chinese, and perhaps life is cheap there, but I know there is a person that set that situation up. They have brothers or sisters, and parents, and perhaps kids... What can they be thinking. Fortunately that video was sent to me. If I saw it at a work site the manufacturer would be rejected. I used to have to lie and mark them under poor quality or incompatible work flow. Now I have an entire section related to worker safety, cleanliness / conditions, hours worked, etc. I'm seeing review comments in those sections now. It's a small start in a big problem.Here is the sad part, even when worker safety is addressed, there are worker out there that will bypass the safety procedures just to make it easier to do their job. Then the people that are suppose to make sure this doesn't happen will turn a blind eye because production speed means everything. So true Corbin. That happens here too. It's a long road. You can almost track their progress to our own industrial growth in the 1920's. Let's all hope China can learn from our failures as well as our success. Link to comment
Corbin Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 (edited) I've been in manufacturing for 30 years. I've seen some really stupid things in the US, but nothing like my trips to China. I evaluate manufacturers for our supply chain. Quality is the biggest issue lately. Price was yesterday. I am happy to say that ethics and worker safety are beginning to get some exposure. I have videos of workers sitting inside 300 ton presses while they are operating. This press is stamping out steel pots. There are three guys inside (on seats) lifting the parts from one station to the next. No one injured in the video, but I could see that it wouldn't be that way forever Yes, there are a lot of Chinese, and perhaps life is cheap there, but I know there is a person that set that situation up. They have brothers or sisters, and parents, and perhaps kids... What can they be thinking. Fortunately that video was sent to me. If I saw it at a work site the manufacturer would be rejected. I used to have to lie and mark them under poor quality or incompatible work flow. Now I have an entire section related to worker safety, cleanliness / conditions, hours worked, etc. I'm seeing review comments in those sections now. It's a small start in a big problem.Here is the sad part, even when worker safety is addressed, there are worker out there that will bypass the safety procedures just to make it easier to do their job. Then the people that are suppose to make sure this doesn't happen will turn a blind eye because production speed means everything. So true Corbin. That happens here too. It's a long road. You can almost track their progress to our own industrial growth in the 1920's. Let's all hope China can learn from our failures as well as our success.I'm sure they will learn some, but how much of that learning will be put into effect is hard to say. With so many people willing to step in and fill the dead mans/womans shoes it may take them a real long time.................. Edited January 24, 2008 by Corbin (see edit history) Link to comment
DMikeS4321 Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 Doesn't everyone have the right to be as protected as reasonably possible at their job??? Apparently not. Why don't you make up a sign and go protest? Maybe you could start up a union. Maybe that guy would rather have a job than a safety harness, Rog. Link to comment
rogerluli Posted January 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 Doesn't everyone have the right to be as protected as reasonably possible at their job??? Apparently not. Why don't you make up a sign and go protest? Maybe you could start up a union. Maybe that guy would rather have a job than a safety harness, Rog. Not everyone gives a damn about anyone else, 'eh Mike... Link to comment
rogerluli Posted January 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 Doesn't everyone have the right to be as protected as reasonably possible at their job??? Maybe that guy would rather have a job than a safety harness, Rog. Maybe if he fell off and landed on the concrete below he wouldn't... Link to comment
Dan R Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 When international customers make worker safety an issue with third party audits to varify or Chinese workers start winning large lawsuits for endangerment by the employer things will change as they have here. Business is about the bottom line and sales. Everything else must be factored in for profitability and competitiveness. The capitalist way, it feeds everyone in the chain. That's why they go along. Link to comment
rogerluli Posted January 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 When international customers make worker safety an issue with third party audits to varify or Chinese workers start winning large lawsuits for endangerment by the employer things will change as they have here. Business is about the bottom line and sales. Everything else must be factored in for profitability and competitiveness. The capitalist way, it feeds everyone in the chain. That's why they go along. So it's just a "dog eat dog" world out there... And only the LAWYERS... ...can make it right... Link to comment
DMikeS4321 Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 and to think people here wonder why the Chinese are poisoning us... With all due respect, this is just plain stupid. Rog, you've outdone yourself this time. There is no way to translate our cultural and social sensibilities to another culture or society. To attempt to do so is the height of cultural arrogance. What gives us the right? To paraphrase something I see often in discussions about OTHER international issues; are we the world's policeman??? As for poisoning us, you CAN'T be serious... Wouldn't it be nice if EVERYONE in the world lived by our standards, the standards we have developed over 150+ years of industrialisation? I don't know, you tell me. Should we intervene in a situation like this? It is even our business?? The same people who complain about our "intervention" in other situations often complain when they see something that doesn't fit into their "ideas" (I use the term here very loosely) of how things should be done. China is an authoritarian state, no? They will get around to heavily regulating their workplace soon enough. Get off the "our way is better" nonsense. You only bring it up in reference to one of YOUR pet peeves. Talk about Ugly Americans, this is just silly.... Link to comment
DMikeS4321 Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 >>>Doesn't everyone have the right to be as protected as reasonably possible at their job??? No. It is not a right in the USA or in China. The US does impose regulations that improve safety dramatically, but a safe workplace is not a right. An individual is ultimately responsible for their own safety in the workplace. You are so right. I drove a propane truck for a couple of years when I was young. The truck was well maintained and in good condition, but wearing a seatbelt was my responsibility. Nobody was there to force me to do it. Regardless, nothing could stop the foolish woman who blew a stoplight (while drag-racing her husband) and t-boned me at an intersection, causing the truck to roll over and crush her car. Nobody was killed, but it was a close call. I didn't think driving a propane truck was particularly dangerous up to that point; it was MY choice as to whether I wanted to continue doing it. The worker in the picture will make his own decision based on a variety of factors. Is he being forced into working without a "net"? I don't think it's up to us to decide the level of danger OR whether or not his motivations for doing the job are appropriate. Link to comment
rogerluli Posted January 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 and to think people here wonder why the Chinese are poisoning us... With all due respect, this is just plain stupid. Rog, you've outdone yourself this time. There is no way to translate our cultural and social sensibilities to another culture or society. To attempt to do so is the height of cultural arrogance. What gives us the right? To paraphrase something I see often in discussions about OTHER international issues; are we the world's policeman??? As for poisoning us, you CAN'T be serious... Wouldn't it be nice if EVERYONE in the world lived by our standards, the standards we have developed over 150+ years of industrialisation? I don't know, you tell me. Should we intervene in a situation like this? It is even our business?? The same people who complain about our "intervention" in other situations often complain when they see something that doesn't fit into their "ideas" (I use the term here very loosely) of how things should be done. China is an authoritarian state, no? They will get around to heavily regulating their workplace soon enough. Get off the "our way is better" nonsense. You only bring it up in reference to one of YOUR pet peeves. Talk about Ugly Americans, this is just silly.... It's going to get really slow if I have to 'splain everything to you Mike... You have TOTALLY MISUNDERSTOOD what I was saying... Or was it intentional??? The point was my friend that the Chinese are harming themselves by making crap for us...MANY, MANY TIMES MORE THAN ANY ILL EFFFECTS THE PRODUCTS MAY HAVE HERE... Do you get it now or do I have to come down there and... B) HAHAHAHA...just kidding... Link to comment
DMikeS4321 Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 and to think people here wonder why the Chinese are poisoning us... With all due respect, this is just plain stupid. Rog, you've outdone yourself this time. There is no way to translate our cultural and social sensibilities to another culture or society. To attempt to do so is the height of cultural arrogance. What gives us the right? To paraphrase something I see often in discussions about OTHER international issues; are we the world's policeman??? As for poisoning us, you CAN'T be serious... Wouldn't it be nice if EVERYONE in the world lived by our standards, the standards we have developed over 150+ years of industrialisation? I don't know, you tell me. Should we intervene in a situation like this? It is even our business?? The same people who complain about our "intervention" in other situations often complain when they see something that doesn't fit into their "ideas" (I use the term here very loosely) of how things should be done. China is an authoritarian state, no? They will get around to heavily regulating their workplace soon enough. Get off the "our way is better" nonsense. You only bring it up in reference to one of YOUR pet peeves. Talk about Ugly Americans, this is just silly.... It's going to get really slow if I have to 'splain everything to you Mike... You have TOTALLY MISUNDERSTOOD what I was saying... Or was it intentional??? The point was my friend that the Chinese are harming themselves by making crap for us...MANY, MANY TIMES MORE THAN ANY ILL EFFFECTS THE PRODUCTS MAY HAVE HERE... Do you get it now or do I have to come down there and... HAHAHAHA...just kidding... I guess you missed the part of my post that addressed your "workplace safety" comments. As for Chinese making "crap" for us; that topic has been exhausted (at least in my mind) in previous threads, most of which point out that it's the responsibility of those bringing in the "crap" without assuring it's up to our standards. P.S. I'm not offended by your offer to visit, Rog. You are welcome anytime. I'm sure we would get along just fine. Just leave the hammer at home... Link to comment
rogerluli Posted January 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 and to think people here wonder why the Chinese are poisoning us... With all due respect, this is just plain stupid. Rog, you've outdone yourself this time. There is no way to translate our cultural and social sensibilities to another culture or society. To attempt to do so is the height of cultural arrogance. What gives us the right? To paraphrase something I see often in discussions about OTHER international issues; are we the world's policeman??? As for poisoning us, you CAN'T be serious... Wouldn't it be nice if EVERYONE in the world lived by our standards, the standards we have developed over 150+ years of industrialisation? I don't know, you tell me. Should we intervene in a situation like this? It is even our business?? The same people who complain about our "intervention" in other situations often complain when they see something that doesn't fit into their "ideas" (I use the term here very loosely) of how things should be done. China is an authoritarian state, no? They will get around to heavily regulating their workplace soon enough. Get off the "our way is better" nonsense. You only bring it up in reference to one of YOUR pet peeves. Talk about Ugly Americans, this is just silly.... It's going to get really slow if I have to 'splain everything to you Mike... You have TOTALLY MISUNDERSTOOD what I was saying... Or was it intentional??? The point was my friend that the Chinese are harming themselves by making crap for us...MANY, MANY TIMES MORE THAN ANY ILL EFFFECTS THE PRODUCTS MAY HAVE HERE... Do you get it now or do I have to come down there and... HAHAHAHA...just kidding... I guess you missed the part of my post that addressed your "workplace safety" comments. As for Chinese making "crap" for us; that topic has been exhausted (at least in my mind) in previous threads, most of which point out that it's the responsibility of those bringing in the "crap" without assuring it's up to our standards. P.S. I'm not offended by your offer to visit, Rog. You are welcome anytime. I'm sure we would get along just fine. Just leave the hammer at home... But of course...we both love pu'erh tea... Link to comment
DMikeS4321 Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 and to think people here wonder why the Chinese are poisoning us... With all due respect, this is just plain stupid. Rog, you've outdone yourself this time. There is no way to translate our cultural and social sensibilities to another culture or society. To attempt to do so is the height of cultural arrogance. What gives us the right? To paraphrase something I see often in discussions about OTHER international issues; are we the world's policeman??? As for poisoning us, you CAN'T be serious... Wouldn't it be nice if EVERYONE in the world lived by our standards, the standards we have developed over 150+ years of industrialisation? I don't know, you tell me. Should we intervene in a situation like this? It is even our business?? The same people who complain about our "intervention" in other situations often complain when they see something that doesn't fit into their "ideas" (I use the term here very loosely) of how things should be done. China is an authoritarian state, no? They will get around to heavily regulating their workplace soon enough. Get off the "our way is better" nonsense. You only bring it up in reference to one of YOUR pet peeves. Talk about Ugly Americans, this is just silly.... It's going to get really slow if I have to 'splain everything to you Mike... You have TOTALLY MISUNDERSTOOD what I was saying... Or was it intentional??? The point was my friend that the Chinese are harming themselves by making crap for us...MANY, MANY TIMES MORE THAN ANY ILL EFFFECTS THE PRODUCTS MAY HAVE HERE... Do you get it now or do I have to come down there and... HAHAHAHA...just kidding... I guess you missed the part of my post that addressed your "workplace safety" comments. As for Chinese making "crap" for us; that topic has been exhausted (at least in my mind) in previous threads, most of which point out that it's the responsibility of those bringing in the "crap" without assuring it's up to our standards. P.S. I'm not offended by your offer to visit, Rog. You are welcome anytime. I'm sure we would get along just fine. Just leave the hammer at home... But of course...we both love pu'erh tea... Indeed!! Common ground. Maybe if we took some to the Middle East? Link to comment
rogerluli Posted February 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 6 top executives at two Chinese coal mines were being handed over to prosecutors and likely to face criminal charges for their roles in accidents that drowned 181 miners, the Xinhua News Agency reported Tuesday. Wrapping up an investigation into one of the worst accidents in more than a half-century of communist rule, safety investigators referred six people to prosecutors, among them the heads of the Minggong Coal Mine and the Huayuan Mining Co. in eastern Shandong province, Xinhua said. The investigative panel, comprised of provincial safety and other officials, concluded that the Aug. 17 flood brought about by torrential rains that caused a river to breach its banks, but that the mines were poorly prepared for an accident. The flooding "exposed prominent problems in workplace safety and accident prevention among local governments, agencies and enterprises," said the Xinhua report, which was posted on the Web site of China's workplace safety agency. With China reliant on coal for about 70 percent of its booming economy's energy needs, Beijing has been trying to improve safety in its accident-plagued mines. However, the effort has been frustrated by lax enforcement, safety inspectors who lack power and corruption between local officials and profitable mines. The watchdog State Administration of Work Safety has turned to publicizing investigations into accidents to try to shame officials into compliance and shore up public confidence. The safety administration declined comment, saying knowledgeable officials could not be reached because of the Lunar New Year holiday, which officially starts Wednesday. If found guilty...And not many trials in China end in acquitals...These 6 could face the ultimate sanction...One man, one bullet... Perhaps this will start to get the mesage across that workplace safety is not a joke and human lives are not expendable... http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/2069/executionszb8.jpg Link to comment
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