Three Gorges Dam...

[rogerluli]

SHUDDERING, CREAKING, GROANING, CRACKING, WARPING... might sound like Don getting up in the morning but I'm glad I don't live there...

 

As China's mega dam rises, so do strains and fear

 

BADONG, China - The slopes of Chenjialing Village have shuddered and groaned lately, cracking and warping homes and fields, and making residents fear the banks of China's swelling Three Gorges Dam may hold deadly perils.

 

The vast hydro scheme is meant to subdue the Yangtze River, but as the water levels rise, parts of its shores have strained and cracked, dismaying scientists and officials and alarming villages such as Chenjialing in Badong County.

 

Xiang Chuncai, who has lived much of her 84 years on this hillside of orange groves above the Yangtze, recalled waking in fright last year to rattling windows and rumbling noises from the earth. The tremors returned several times in past months, residents of this village in Hubei province said.

 

"It's all been splitting since the Three Gorges Dam was filled," Xiang said, poking a wide crack snaking up a wall in her earth-brick home. "We don't have the money to move ... I'm scared what will happen if we stay," Xiang added.

 

Along the 660-km (410-mile) reservoir, residents pointed to erosion, slides and deformed terrain they said have seriously worsened since last year, when the water level was raised a second time.

 

While authorities have vowed to contain geological aftershocks from the dam, poor farmers worry about being swallowed up by landslides. The resulting tensions threaten to rekindle the bitter clashes that long dogged the project.

 

"Sometimes the ground rumbles and shakes, dogs bark, babies cry. It frightens us too," said Xiang's neighbor, Su Gongxiang, showing his front door that will no longer shut.

 

MASTERING NATURE

 

These days, China stands almost alone among nations in wielding the wealth and will to conjure up vast engineering efforts to alter the flow of rivers and lives of millions.

 

The Three Gorges Dam is the world's biggest, an engineering feat that seeks to tame the world's third longest river while displacing 1.4 million people.

 

The 6,300-km (3,910-mile) Yangtze, which rises on the Tibetan plateau, flows through the towering Three Gorges to irrigate, and often flood, much of the country's central and eastern plains.

 

From 1919 a succession of leaders argued that a dam would end devastating floods and generate power. That dream eluded the revolutionary founder Mao Zedong, whose plans for a dam foundered in political turmoil and poverty.

 

But in the 1980s, a new generation of Communist Party leaders championed the plan as a trophy of growing economic power.

 

They faced down opposition from environmental critics and skeptical scientists who in 1992 persuaded an unprecedented third of the usually docile Party-controlled parliament either to oppose the plan or abstain from voting.

 

Construction began in 1994.

 

Since the 2,309-metre-long dam was finished in 2003, the reservoir has been filled with water in stages. If all goes to plan, it will reach its maximum capacity of 39.3 billion cubic meters of water by the end of 2008, capping a year of national glory centered on the Beijing Olympics.

 

"NEVER LIKE THIS BEFORE"

 

But in Chenjialing this engineering triumph has brought bewilderment and the resigned anger that comes easily to people with little say over their own lives.

 

Its 1,400 villagers live above what was once a rivulet that could be waded across. These days it is a deep inlet that can moor big coal boats plying the Yangtze.

 

Everywhere among the fruit groves and potato fields is evidence of a bruised and unsettled landscape.

 

A hulking old tree has begun to tilt riverward, a nearby earth terrace suddenly subsided, and many houses show cracks and warping, all since last year, villagers said.

 

"We worry about staying but can't move," said Su Zhonghen, washing clothes in an outdoor stone sink that now skews to one side. "Only families with flooded homes get compensation."

 

A nearby bank of the Yangtze collapsed last year, tossing several homes into the water, and the county government has put signs around Chenjialing warning of "geological hazards".

 

The coal mine at the foot of the village probably does not help, with its dynamite blasts regularly shaking the quiet air.

 

Residents said they had been visited by a handful of worried but lowly officials who said there was little else they could do.

 

Tan Lianyong, a wiry 45-year-old farmer who also works in the mine, said he worried that land slips could trap him in a tunnel.

 

"We're just peasants. We've got to earn money to survive. We can't choose how," he said, eyeing the vegetable patch in front of his home that suddenly sank in the middle.

 

PULVERISED HOUSES

 

The dam region is granite-solid in parts but also spans brittle terrain. Scientists have long forecast greater instability as rising and falling dam waters punch at shorelines, block seepage, and squeeze weak spots.

 

"The dam area was always prone to landslides, and now the raising of water levels is adding to the pressure on the sides," said Lei Hengshun, an environment expert at Chongqing University.

 

The raised water loosened vulnerable layers of earth and rock, and drought and torrential rain could intensify risks of major land collapses, he said.

 

The pulverized slope of Qianjiangping Village in Zigui County, Hubei, suggest the dangers these shocks may bring.

 

In July 2003, after the dam began to fill, a landslide there killed 24 people and left 1,100 homeless, churning a whole hillside into a jumble of rock and earth and shattered homes.

 

State media said at the time the dam was not to blame, and torrential rain had at least played a part, experts said.

 

But villagers nearby said they feared that as waters rose again, landslide monitors would be unable to give enough warning.

 

"The first sign will be cracks in the older homes, like ours," said a former resident of Qianjiangping, Wang Aihua, visiting his parents there. "Keep your eyes open for anything like that," he sternly told them.

 

In the rainy summer of 2007, landslides across the dam area killed at least 13 people, according to local news reports and the dam environmental agency.

 

A Xinhua news agency report last year cited over 1,900 geological hazards around the dam, including 362 urgently needing safety work. Thirteen had received it.

 

Scientists in state institutes have suggested that officials did too little to anticipate the dangers.

 

"The scale and intensity of these problems seems to have exceeded predictions", said Liu Changming, a hydro-engineer at the Chinese Academy of Sciences with long involvement in the dam.

 

Alarm at the top is growing too.

 

In April, Premier Wen Jiabao, a geologist, took leadership of the dam construction committee and later held a cabinet meeting to discuss the Three Gorges' environmental strains.

 

In September, a senior project official warned that land upheavals could spell "environmental calamity" -- an abrupt switch from bright propaganda about the dam's benefits.

 

Since then, officials have softened their warnings and said the hazards are well under control, pointing to billions of yuan already spent to control risks.

 

Yet despite their assurances, the reality on the ground leaves little doubt that many thousands of farmers, if not more, must either move away or risk living on dangerous land.

 

"JUST LISTEN AND WAIT"

 

Abrupt efforts to uproot endangered villagers, however, threaten to rekindle the bitter clashes between officials and dispossessed residents that marred the dam's construction.

 

In Kangle Township, villagers described an angry meeting with local officials after receiving notice in early November urging them to voluntarily move by the end of 2007 or risk landslides.

 

The compensation offered was not enough to build new homes, and moving high in the hills would put them too far from their fields and water sources, villagers said.

 

"If we don't move, we're scared of landslides, but if we want to move, we can't afford it," said farmer Jin Shihe.

 

On the other side of the valley, cracks have spread in homes but residents said they had not received any notice to move.

 

"At night if it's raining, you don't dare go to sleep," said Li Zhongchen, a grandmother in her sixties. "If a landslide comes, it will be without much sound or warning, so you can just try to listen and wait".

[jim_julian]

There were actually Four Gorges Dames . . .

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Beauties

 

Now that's a project no one can find fault with.

 

 

Uhhh ... I think I take exception to the "overpowering axillary malodor" that was a distinguishing characteristic of one.

[IllinoisDave]

There were actually Four Gorges Dames . . .

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Beauties

 

Now that's a project no one can find fault with.

 

 

Uhhh ... I think I take exception to the "overpowering axillary malodor" that was a distinguishing characteristic of one.

 

OK. I missed that. I don't think I care for either.

[rogerluli]

Okay since youse guys have decided to go... I will relate my story of how the famed Three Treasures Restaurants in Yunnan became known as the Four Treasures... It seems that the owner's wife, who was the hostess of this large and beautiful establishment, underwent the knife to enhance her bustline. She asked for the largest possible size increase and henceforth appreciative male patrons declared her chest to be the Fourth Treasure...

[rogerluli]

Getting back to the actual topic...A long (5 pages) article in Scientific American about the Three Gorges Dam and the ever increasing dangers of serious environmental impacts...

 

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=chinas...es-dam-disaster

[sleepless in Houston&CQ]

Getting back to the actual topic...A long (5 pages) article in Scientific American about the Three Gorges Dam and the ever increasing dangers of serious environmental impacts...

 

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=chinas...es-dam-disaster

 

Thanks Roggie for bringing back your Damn, Dam project back to life!

 

Every once a blue moon you do post something worth while

As a few of us have condos and or apartments in this area

[rogerluli]

Getting back to the actual topic...A long (5 pages) article in Scientific American about the Three Gorges Dam and the ever increasing dangers of serious environmental impacts...

 

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=chinas...es-dam-disaster

 

Thanks Roggie for bringing back your Damn, Dam project back to life!

 

Every once a blue moon you do post something worth while

As a few of us have condos and or apartments in this area

 

Yeah I can think of at least two of you rich guys in CQ... both "experts" I'm sure...The damn dam issue just won't seem to go away...Maybe the possible earthquake they predict would take care of it... ummmmm do you have flood insurance Bobby???

[DMikeS4321]

A long (5 pages) article in Scientific American about the Three Gorges Dam and the ever increasing dangers of serious environmental impacts...

 

 

versus the negative aspects of relying on coal for generation of electricity????

 

versus the negative aspects of relying on nuclear power for generation of electricity????

 

versus the negative aspects of NOT generating the electrical power the country needs????

 

versus what positive aspects of the development????

 

Is there ANYTHING to balance this horrible development or is it being done soley to destroy the culture and environment of China????

 

Rog, give us something, anything, positive about the dam, please, or are we just to assume somebody is doing this development to intentionally ruin the country?

Edited March 27, 2008 by DMikeS4321 (see edit history)

[Jeikun]

Rog, give us something, anything, positive about the dam, please, or are we just to assume somebody is doing this development to intentionally ruin the country?

 

 

Of course there were good intentions. Tons of them. That road to hell isn't gonna pave itself ya know!

[LeeFisher3]

Getting back to the actual topic...A long (5 pages) article in Scientific American about the Three Gorges Dam and the ever increasing dangers of serious environmental impacts...

 

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=chinas...es-dam-disaster

In the US it's a huge national debt where in China it's taking risks their environment.

 

Both are putting the answers of todays problems at the feet of their children who will have no other choice than to deal with their parents decisions.

[DMikeS4321]

Getting back to the actual topic...A long (5 pages) article in Scientific American about the Three Gorges Dam and the ever increasing dangers of serious environmental impacts...

 

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=chinas...es-dam-disaster

In the US it's a huge national debt where in China it's taking risks their environment.

 

Both are putting the answers of todays problems at the feet of their children who will have no other choice than to deal with their parents decisions.

 

I hear ya, but isn't this pretty much always true? Doesn't each subsequent generation have to deal with the problems left over from the previous one? Each generation has it's own struggles; that is true througout history.

 

I was just hoping for some kind of balance. Below is an old website from PBS online.

 

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/buildingbig/wonder...ree_gorges.html

 

I didn't 'cherry pick' this site; it was number 5 when I did a search for "Three Gorges Dam". The article mentions that the dam was already facing environmental opposition in 2000, but it also says that the dam, when complete with a full reservoir, will generate up to 9%(!!!) of the entire country's electrical power. That is HUGE. Think of the many smaller projects that can be avoided. Think of the net savings in pollution from reduced reliance on coal.

 

Here is an excellent site, obviously more pro-dam:

 

http://www.imperialtours.net/3gorges_dam.htm

 

This site claims that TGD will NOT be the largest dam in the world; apparently it will produce more power and be more expensive, but they say Grand Coulee is larger in terms of concrete and steel used. This site claims TGD will generate from 11% to 15% of China's electricity, 18 TRILLION watts, and claims that these figures have squelched the opposition that was claiming coal would be a better alternative. This opposition was obviously during a less 'eco-sensitive' time.

 

Quote: "China's phenomenal economic growth has killed the debate surrounding this issue. It now appears that the Chinese leadership was correct to assume the utility of the dam's electricity production. Whereas naysayers had argued that China's coal production would keep pace with her industrial development, this is certainly no longer the case. Already, in 2005, China is importing one third of its energy needs."

 

Americans, of all people, should appreciate the problems inherent in energy importation.

 

Another quote:

 

"A corollary to the flood control benefit of the three gorges dam project is the plan to construct a 600 kilometer canal from the three gorges reservoir to Beijing. From 2007, this will be able to divert up to 80 billion cubic meters of soft water per year to the water-starved north."

 

Another huge benefit is that the dam will allow the use of transport barges of up to 10,000 tons. Water transportation of this sort is extremely efficient in terms of fuel usage, using less energy per ton than any other form of freight transport. Given the growth of Chongqing, China's most populous municipality, proponents of the project claim that the Three Gorges Dam will reduce freight costs and facilitate trade in this area. See link below for efficiency comparisons between barge, truck and train freight ton-mile per gallon of fuel.

 

http://www.arc.gov/index.do?nodeId=2571

 

Pretty persuasive stuff.

 

Here is a Discovery Channel site that describes benefits and problems:

 

http://school.discoveryeducation.com/lesso...ms/threegorges/

 

The benefits mentioned are:

 

"The dam will benefit some two million Chinese by controlling flooding on the lower Yangtze River, generating hydroelectric power, and reducing pollution caused by the burning of coal."

 

From Wikipedia:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Gorges_Dam

 

Excerpt from above:

 

"According to The National Development and Reform Commission of China, the average consumption of coal to produce one kWh of electricity in China is 366 grams (2006). Therefore, the Three Gorges Dam will potentially reduce the coal consumption by 31 million tons per year, cutting the emission of 100 million tons of greenhouse gas, millions of tons of dust, 1 million tons of sulfur dioxide, 370 thousand tons of nitric oxide, 10 thousand tons of carbon monoxide and a significant amount of mercury into the atmosphere."

 

More from Wiki:

 

"The most significant function of the dam is to control flooding, which is a major problem of a seasonal river like the Yangtze. Millions of people live downstream of the dam, and many large and important cities like Wuhan, Nanjing and Shanghai lie next to the river. Plenty of farm land and the most important industrial area of China are built beside the river.

 

In 1954, the river flooded 47.75 million acres (193,000 km²) of land, killing 33,169 people and forcing 18,884,000 people to move. The flood covered Wuhan, a city with 8 million people, for over three months, and the Jingguang Railway was out of order for more than 100 days.

 

In 1998, a flood in the same area caused billions of dollars in damage. The Chinese government asked for support from its military to fight the flooding. Two thousand and thirty-nine square kilometers of farm land was flooded. The flood affected more than 2.3 million people, and 1,526 were killed.

 

The reservoir's flood storage capacity is 22 cubic kilometers (18 million acre feet). This capacity will reduce the frequency of major downstream flooding from once every 10 years to once every 100 years. With the dam, it is expected that major floods can be controlled. If a "super" flood comes, the dam is expected to minimize its effect."

 

All in all, I'm presenting what some may consider to be "pro-dam" information, but I prefer to think of it as being balanced. Each of the websites I've linked to above also mentions some downside to the dam, but I think it only fair to present a small bit of the upside.

 

Best Regards

Edited March 28, 2008 by DMikeS4321 (see edit history)

[rogerluli]

Rog, give us something, anything, positive about the dam, please, or are we just to assume somebody is doing this development to intentionally ruin the country?

 

 

Of course there were good intentions. Tons of them. That road to hell isn't gonna pave itself ya know!

 

The idea for the dam first came from Mao. There were too many other problems at that time to even begin to build it. But it was always seen as this one huge project that would give China prestige worldwide. WE DID THIS kind of thing... Of course there would be positive outcomes in terms of power generation, flood control, etc. But environmental concerns were always shoved aside because it just had to be done to somehow ensure Mao's legacy/vision.

 

If Mike had read the actual article he would have discovered that there are now a series of smaller dams planned for the upper reaches of the river. These seem to be a much better alternative than this one huge, over-reaching project that seems on the road to disaster.

 

I like Jason's addition and I'll add that no good deed goes unpunished...

 

Maybe everything will work out Mike and absolutely no negative effects will ever occur. But I doubt very much that Scientific American has any axe to grind in doing this story...and I don't either...

[DMikeS4321]

Maybe everything will work out Mike and absolutely no negative effects will ever occur. But I doubt very much that Scientific American has any axe to grind in doing this story...and I don't either...

 

Roger, Roger, Roger..... I never SAID there would be absolutely NO negative effect ever to occur. I never SAID that Scientific American had an axe to grind. In fact, Roger, I MENTIONED that there were negatives discussed in ALL the articles I linked to.

 

Please, Roger, read a bit more carefully. You are a mod now so you should try a little harder to open your eyes and ears.

 

Please note the last line of my previous post:

 

"Each of the websites I've linked to above also mentions some downside to the dam, but I think it only fair to present a small bit of the upside."

 

Where do you see my claim that there will be no negative effect? Where did I say S.A. had an axe to grind? Let me be clear; IT'S ONLY FAIR TO BALANCE THE BAD WITH THE GOOD, unless YOU are saying that absolutely NO positive effect will ever occur.

 

Best Regards

 

P.S. Your stubborn refusal to acknowledge that some good will come from this dam tells everyone reading who has the axe to grind. The fact that you have kept this topic open for over 5 months with nothing but more of the same clearly shows the same.

 

P.P.S. Thanks for the tip on Mao. I already knew he had the vision for Three Gorges Dam. I read his poem.

Edited March 28, 2008 by DMikeS4321 (see edit history)

[Yuanyang]

What dam doesn't have environmental impact? The bigger the damn dam the bigger the impact. But... what would I know.

[rogerluli]

What dam doesn't have environmental impact? The bigger the damn dam the bigger the impact. But... what would I know.

 

Don't be shy Bob...We're all EXPERTS here...