Rocks in Head - Part Two

[griz326]

This takes the "have you got rocks in your head" discussion to a new level.

 

My dear friend called me today and I told her my plans to marry my gal in Nanning.

 

As an attorney one of the first questions she asked was: "Have you locked up everything in a trust yet?" The answer to that question is no, but with reluctance I will.

 

After that we continued to chat until I mentioned that there is a 17 year old girl involved. This set her off in a way I have never seen before.

 

Taking it to the bottom line, my friend questions the true character of my gal for the following reasons:

 

- her involvement with me rather than finishing the rearing of the child

 

- the current split living situation in which the child lives with her grandmother on the father's side during the school week (closer to the school the child attends)

 

--- a side bar...what sort of woman would not commute to work to be able to live with her daughter

 

- what sort of woman endangers her child by exposing her to a strange man (me - I never considered this, but then I am not a risk - my gal does not know that for certain)

 

- what sort of woman would turn her child's life upside down just to come to live in America

 

Long story short, the points must be considered. While I think the comments judge the Chinese by American standards, in fact, an American Catholic convert's standards, I cannot ignore a good friend's concern for me.

 

In my 20+ years as a single man, only twice did I seriously date women with children. I never became involved with the children because until the deal is signed, sealed and delivered all that I could possibly do to the children was harm them; break-ups are bad enough for the adults - but if a kid gets to like you - they get crushed too. I did not even consider my own standard with my gal's child.

 

The matter that most concerns me after the call today is the child living with her father's mother most of the time. I think the "whys" and "what fors" around that are important. She's told me that her mother-in-law loves her and is shamed by her son (my gal's ex). That situation would be a HUGE red flag were I planning a future with an American woman; it probably requires a much closer examination than I have given it so far.

 

My friend closed the conversation saying "If this woman is so selfish that she does this to her child, what might she do to you?"

 

A tough call from a good friend. Could I possibly have so misjudged my Sweetie?

[Don]

This takes the "have you got rocks in your head" discussion to a new level.

 

The matter that most concerns me after the call today is the child living with her father's mother most of the time. I think the "whys" and "what fors" around that are important. She's told me that her mother-in-law loves her and is shamed by her son (my gal's ex). That situation would be a HUGE red flag were I planning a future with an American woman; it probably requires a much closer examination than I have given it so far.

 

My friend closed the conversation saying "If this woman is so selfish that she does this to her child, what might she do to you?"

 

A tough call from a good friend. Could I possibly have so misjudged my Sweetie?

 

 

 

I think you and your friend are thinking with the US mindset. I have seen other examples of this many times in China. Communte times and bus lines can be very long. Kids staying close to school is very important. Parents oftens use grandparents or even split up to give the kids best chance at good school. I have seen this personally at least 4 times. The kid's school takes president over many other factors. The parents work to make sure the kid can be at the best school and have money for a better life. Grandparents help and often watch the kids. Your SO other is ver lucky that the grandparent can help. Switching jobs is not always possible, the daughter might only go to that school for a few years at that location.

 

 

 

In junior high i have seen the kids staying till after 10 pm, they can not take a bus home at that time. Plus, they often come home for lunch and maybe a nap. Can you SO be home for that, often the grandparents job. Plus, now the kid must really start to study for that next test. In china the kids study, they do not have social or planned activities. The parents job is the make sure food is tehre and house is clean for kid to study. During the week the students only study, not much else.

 

 

 

Step back and think about this again. I think you can find many examples of this from others here on CFL. The quality of the school and the amount of time they need to study is very important.

 

Don

[griz326]

Thanks Don for reinforcing my gut feeling. I've read quite a bit about China over the years, so I really never thought about it until my friend made such a big deal of it today.

 

Still...I must ask more about this matter rather than hope my feelings are correct.

[Dennis143]

Sigh...where to begin... More importantly, why bother to explain. Your 'good friend' has no concept of China and Chinese culture. To attempt to bring her up to speed with a crash course on the differences between Western vs. Chinese culture may be futile. Seems, her preconceived western views are locked in pretty tight and the only real way to convince her otherwise is to let her witness the end result of life with your new family and that will take a few years...

 

Of course, she is looking out for you...understood. The real question is, are her questions now yours too?

[rogerinca]

Sigh...where to begin... More importantly, why bother to explain. Your 'good friend' has no concept of China and Chinese culture. To attempt to bring her up to speed with a crash course on the differences between Western vs. Chinese culture may be futile. Seems, her preconceived western views are locked in pretty tight and the only real way to convince her otherwise is to let her witness the end result of life with your new family and that will take a few years...

 

Of course, she is looking out for you...understood. The real question is, are her questions now yours too?

 

You nailed it Dennis !!!!

 

 

I will add, if each of us here based our decision making process regarding our women from China on comments/opinions from uninformed, biased, and judgmental acquaintances here in the US, who seek to impart their own lifestyle, culture and views on us¡­.this forum would cease to exist and USCIS would have no backlog of case files for K-visas. Just read through the recent thread on Racism, to get an understanding. B)

[Guest Rob & Jin]

Sigh...where to begin... More importantly, why bother to explain. Your 'good friend' has no concept of China and Chinese culture. To attempt to bring her up to speed with a crash course on the differences between Western vs. Chinese culture may be futile. Seems, her preconceived western views are locked in pretty tight and the only real way to convince her otherwise is to let her witness the end result of life with your new family and that will take a few years...

 

Of course, she is looking out for you...understood. The real question is, are her questions now yours too?

 

You nailed it Dennis !!!!

 

 

I will add, if each of us here based our decision making process regarding our women from China on comments/opinions from uninformed, biased, and judgmental acquaintances here in the US, who seek to impart their own lifestyle, culture and views on us¡­.this forum would cease to exist and USCIS would have no backlog of case files for K-visas. Just read through the recent thread on Racism, to get an understanding. B)

 

Dennis nails it yet again.

 

Remember opinions are like A..H.... everyones got one and some are pretty stinky. But to BE honest what does it matter what others think about your relationship, if shes your love, you hers, why worry. IMHO

[Don]

Thanks Don for reinforcing my gut feeling. I've read quite a bit about China over the years, so I really never thought about it until my friend made such a big deal of it today.

 

Still...I must ask more about this matter rather than hope my feelings are correct.

 

 

 

 

 

Listen to the others here also.

 

 

 

Plus, ask you questions, what else do we have to do till our future wifes are here.

 

don

[RongandMike]

This takes the "have you got rocks in your head" discussion to a new level.

 

My dear friend called me today and I told her my plans to marry my gal in Nanning.

 

As an attorney one of the first questions she asked was: "Have you locked up everything in a trust yet?" The answer to that question is no, but with reluctance I will.

 

After that we continued to chat until I mentioned that there is a 17 year old girl involved. This set her off in a way I have never seen before.

 

Taking it to the bottom line, my friend questions the true character of my gal for the following reasons:

 

- her involvement with me rather than finishing the rearing of the child

 

- the current split living situation in which the child lives with her grandmother on the father's side during the school week (closer to the school the child attends)

 

--- a side bar...what sort of woman would not commute to work to be able to live with her daughter

 

- what sort of woman endangers her child by exposing her to a strange man (me - I never considered this, but then I am not a risk - my gal does not know that for certain)

 

- what sort of woman would turn her child's life upside down just to come to live in America

 

Long story short, the points must be considered. While I think the comments judge the Chinese by American standards, in fact, an American Catholic convert's standards, I cannot ignore a good friend's concern for me.

 

In my 20+ years as a single man, only twice did I seriously date women with children. I never became involved with the children because until the deal is signed, sealed and delivered all that I could possibly do to the children was harm them; break-ups are bad enough for the adults - but if a kid gets to like you - they get crushed too. I did not even consider my own standard with my gal's child.

 

The matter that most concerns me after the call today is the child living with her father's mother most of the time. I think the "whys" and "what fors" around that are important. She's told me that her mother-in-law loves her and is shamed by her son (my gal's ex). That situation would be a HUGE red flag were I planning a future with an American woman; it probably requires a much closer examination than I have given it so far.

 

My friend closed the conversation saying "If this woman is so selfish that she does this to her child, what might she do to you?"

 

A tough call from a good friend. Could I possibly have so misjudged my Sweetie?

 

As Mr Dennis say: Sigh...where to begin...

You friend not know about China family, so no understand this things. All things you say about you woman is good thing. If you woman NOT do this things, then I would have the worry. This is China way you know. B) If you friend can give you this bad mind, then maybe you need more study things . All this bad think give you head a hurt so no listen you friend again, ok! B)

[amberjack1234]

Griz let me say a few things on this matter. It is from my heart and straight to the point and I will be as brief as I can.

 

1. It is obvious that you friend does not know anything about China except that it is a distant country.

2. Your girl is doing a fine job of raising her daughter by Chinese standards it sounds like to me.

3. Her involvement with you attest to this fact. I am sure that raising her daughter properly is one of the factors in considering her relationship with you.

4. Her having her daughter stay with her grandparents so that she can go to school is spot on. They will do whatever is necessary to see that the child gets a good education. Here in the US a person can make a life without a higher education but in China they will lead a very meager existence without it. My wife stayed with her grandparents for almost 6 years. Bottom line is it¡¯s the accepted thing to do with the child¡¯s interest at heart. It sounds like she is very much cherished to me.

5. Commuting to work: Things like this are essential in China as every Yuan is very important to your livelihood so one must exercise all frugalness is these issues in order to exist unless she is very well situated in the business world there.

6. Child endangerment: Things like this by-in-large don¡¯t exist in China so she probably don¡¯t have any concept of it and probably will be very surprised about these occurrences here in America if you tell her about them. I have experienced this scenario before. Not a concern.

7. Turn her child¡¯s life upside down? Yes, for a short time but she will greatly benefit from it in the long run from a better way of life, better education and she may gain a father that truly loves her, not saying that her biological father don¡¯t.

8. Selfish? I think that she is being the exact extreme opposite of selfish. She is giving up everything she knows, loves and her security on a gamble with you in the interest that she will gain love and security for herself and her daughter. I admire and respect her courage.

9. Your friend of 20+ years. I would continue being friends with her but it is obvious that she will be a constant source of misinformation and constantly casting a shadow of doubt in you relationship. She obviously does not approve of you being interested in seeing a foreigner.

 

 

Now this old hillbilly will hush and get down from my soapbox.

 

Larry

 

PS These Chinese girls do have their differences but your girl is doing just as she should as a good Chinese mother from everything that you have stated in your original post.

[griz326]

Thank you all for reinforcing my gut feelings and my understanding of Chinese life from reading.

 

It is worrisome when a dear friend expresses such grave misgivings. It took me a while to shake the feeling after the telephone call. I have decided that it is just another case of a westerner judging another culture's way of life. I've never thought of my good friend as closed-minded, but it looks as if she is.

[Dennis143]

Griz let me say a few things on this matter. It is from my heart and straight to the point and I will be as brief as I can.

 

1. It is obvious that you friend does not know anything about China except that it is a distant country.

2. Your girl is doing a fine job of raising her daughter by Chinese standards it sounds like to me.

3. Her involvement with you attest to this fact. I am sure that raising her daughter properly is one of the factors in considering her relationship with you.

4. Her having her daughter stay with her grandparents so that she can go to school is spot on. They will do whatever is necessary to see that the child gets a good education. Here in the US a person can make a life without a higher education but in China they will lead a very meager existence without it. My wife stayed with her grandparents for almost 6 years. Bottom line is it¡¯s the accepted thing to do with the child¡¯s interest at heart. It sounds like she is very much cherished to me.

5. Commuting to work: Things like this are essential in China as every Yuan is very important to your livelihood so one must exercise all frugalness is these issues in order to exist unless she is very well situated in the business world there.

6. Child endangerment: Things like this by-in-large don¡¯t exist in China so she probably don¡¯t have any concept of it and probably will be very surprised about these occurrences here in America if you tell her about them. I have experienced this scenario before. Not a concern.

7. Turn her child¡¯s life upside down? Yes, for a short time but she will greatly benefit from it in the long run from a better way of life, better education and she may gain a father that truly loves her, not saying that her biological father don¡¯t.

8. Selfish? I think that she is being the exact extreme opposite of selfish. She is giving up everything she knows, loves and her security on a gamble with you in the interest that she will gain love and security for herself and her daughter. I admire and respect her courage.

9. Your friend of 20+ years. I would continue being friends with her but it is obvious that she will be a constant source of misinformation and constantly casting a shadow of doubt in you relationship. She obviously does not approve of you being interested in seeing a foreigner.

 

 

Now this old hillbilly will hush and get down from my soapbox.

 

Larry

 

PS These Chinese girls do have their differences but your girl is doing just as she should as a good Chinese mother from everything that you have stated in your original post.

Dern AJ, you don't post much. But when you do, it's worth reading.

 

I might add, that most all ASIAN generations are raised by their grandparents while the parents work. It is the normal role of the grandparents to rear their grandchildren.

 

Obviously, Griz's lawyer friend is the one who likes to get on the soapbox. Maybe, you can point your friend to the CANDLE to start her education on Asian culture.

[jim_julian]

Griz let me add one more voice ... what your intended is doing is perfectly normal in China ... don't worry.

 

When I first met Lao Po she had a 17 year old daughter and the grandparents were the primary care givers. WE now have a 19 year old daughter (same girl, of course) who arrived in the US about one year after her Mom (she stayed to finish HS). Our daughter is doing well in college and just took our family name as hers.

 

It will all work out ... is your step daughter to be emigrating? Give it a little push if she's on the fence.

[DMikeS4321]

I'll join the chorus, Griz. Your Sweetie understands her situation and culture better than your friend ever will. Go with it; follow her lead.

 

My wife's older sister was abandoned by her (JERK!) husband, but her child spends most of his time with his dad and/or dad's parents. There is nothing abnormal about this. From what I know, there are very seldom any "custody battles" in China. It's just not the way things are done. Their concept of child rearing is completely different from ours, not better, not worse, just different.

 

Thank your friend for her advice, but keep in mind that she probably knows little to nothing about China and Chinese culture. She seems to be looking at this from the perspective of an American Lawyer.

 

As for the "lock it up in a trust" thing... I want to assure the future of my family. That includes my three kids from a previous marriage AND my wife. I don't need to worry about "protecting" anything from Bini (even if I had something to protect!!); my son will probably end up taking care of her in her old age anyway. When I told her that, she almost cried...

[Tony_onrock]

A feminist and a lawyer?

You know what that means. I had a few encounters with a few in the court in New York before. Their universal belief is that all fathers will molest their daughters and all man should be killed with sperm extracted before cloning and same sex marriages can produce offsprings.

As for the lawyer part, my guess is that she works in the family law area and most likely quite often as law guardian.

On the cultural differences, I once heard a feminist judge in Manhattan family court state that sexul molestation in China is an accepted and commom practice, not out of bias, but based on her personal observation. She made one trip to China as a tourist and saw mothers in the countryside trying to get little boy (1 year old) to piss, whistling but also touching the boy's weewee. Anther example is that children tend to sleep with their parents when they are quite old in China, some even 3 or 4 year old still sleep in the same bed as their parent. Thus she assumes that the parents must be engaging the child in deviant sex. Judge Schecter, the feminist judge could not understand anything different than what normal villiage people do (greenwhich villiage, I mean).

[griz326]

I must admit that my friend threw me quite a curve... I have great respect for her over many, many years. ...but I have come to the conclusion that she is ill-informed on Chinese culture, is closed-minded, maybe a little jealous given our many years of friendship or maybe a bit of all of that.....

 

There are many REAL issues for my gal and I to overcome without worrying about these things.

 

Of course, I will be alert to red flags...but IMO...my ability to communicate with my gal is much more substantial than the issues raised by my friend. My gal is working hard to speak and understand spoken English; she does very well with written English as long as it is simple. I am studying Mandarin; her progress is much better than mine.

 

Communication, patience and understanding are the serious issues.

 

I do not believe my gal has any hidden agendas beyond any woman in any culture.

 

Time will prove our fitness for each other.