Chinese Civility?

[SinoTexas]

The issue becomes "our" concern when the Chinese spouse or fiance(e) arrives in the US and continues to use behavioral patterns acceptable China. It is important for us to assist our spouses or fiance(e)s in learning the behavior norms of like situations in China and the US. The pushing and shoving and cutting in line that is acceptable, maybe put your loved in a world of hurt figuratively and literally. You cannot expect people here to make allowances for "rude" or "uncivil" behavior because of cultural differences. Maybe you an I can allow for exceptions, but I think in most situations, most Americans will not be so accommodating in allowing your spouse/fiance(e) to shove their way in or jump a line. We all need to work with our Chinese loved ones to learn the "new" norm.

 

As aye,

 

Jim

[IllinoisDave]

The issue becomes "our" concern when the Chinese spouse or fiance(e) arrives in the US and continues to use behavioral patterns acceptable China. It is important for us to assist our spouses or fiance(e)s in learning the behavior norms of like situations in China and the US. The pushing and shoving and cutting in line that is acceptable, maybe put your loved in a world of hurt figuratively and literally. You cannot expect people here to make allowances for "rude" or "uncivil" behavior because of cultural differences. Maybe you an I can allow for exceptions, but I think in most situations, most Americans will not be so accommodating in allowing your spouse/fiance(e) to shove their way in or jump a line. We all need to work with our Chinese loved ones to learn the "new" norm.

 

As aye,

 

Jim

 

I agree with this totally Jim.

 

However, the OPs post and some others have talked in a more general way about Chinese people being "uncivil". That's what I'm talking about.

 

I think how we all deal with our SO exhibiting any of that behavior here is a very legitimate but separate issue. Wanting our SO to change her behavior to meet our standards when she's here is one thing. To expect the whole of China to do it in their own country is something else entirely.

[Joshua + Wang Zhuo]

I agree with Jim 100 % as well. To me this post was about the Chinese people and their behaviors in China though. It is a different story when people from other cultures come here. If they do not want to be treated differently they need to blend into our culture. I have talked with my fiancee about her "rudeness" when cutting lines while shopping. She said that there really was no line and if you are not aggressive you can wait all day.

 

Now.......I get to look forward to seeing how long it takes her to modify her behaviors when she comes to the US. I certainly will make sure that I am with her in public places for a while. I can only imagine how it would go over if she used the same behaviors after arriving. Line jumping, Ignoring sales people, pushing, not tipping, etc.... But, she says she wants to learn .

 

I wonder if there are any crazy "Rude" behaviors that we have when we go to China? Are there any Chinese men or women on here that can shed a little light on this?

 

Joshua

[david_dawei]

I agree with Lance's "Irony", AM's "SEP" concept, and Tony's "2 points".

 

I hate to generalize.. but I cannot avoid saying, I have seen two interrelated general points of my own:

1) Chinese generally don't like to get involved in someone elses business

2) Chinese don't get involved in someone elses business

 

Being a extremely humanistic approach to life for so long and in such a dense population leaves people with the general belief that they control their own lives and stay out of other people's lives.

 

It has nothing to do with being civil... that's just one culture judging another... judge them by their own standards and it's normal... although I might judge it as a pity.

 

As for my wife's approach to life in china vs the US... If I have a leash at all, it is very, very long and flexible... I rarely use it and rarely intervene. She can figure out for her self some things; she's an adult and there's no one tell the millions of immigrants how to 'act'.

 

In fact, I take a more sociological approach and prefer to watch her walk into a situation where her action is not what most americans like; I love to see [uS] people's paradigm pushed to the edge... It reveals how arrogant our moralistic and judgemental we are at times. Who really cares if someone cuts in line... Tell me what that is truly doing to any one of us? I think all cultures have their cultural handicap at times...

[Joanne]

I agree with Jim 100 % as well. To me this post was about the Chinese people and their behaviors in China though. It is a different story when people from other cultures come here. If they do not want to be treated differently they need to blend into our culture. I have talked with my fiancee about her "rudeness" when cutting lines while shopping. She said that there really was no line and if you are not aggressive you can wait all day.

 

Now.......I get to look forward to seeing how long it takes her to modify her behaviors when she comes to the US. I certainly will make sure that I am with her in public places for a while. I can only imagine how it would go over if she used the same behaviors after arriving. Line jumping, Ignoring sales people, pushing, not tipping, etc.... But, she says she wants to learn .

 

I wonder if there are any crazy "Rude" behaviors that we have when we go to China? Are there any Chinese men or women on here that can shed a little light on this?

 

Joshua

 

Have you encountered many rude Chinese or asian in US? If not, you needn't worry.

 

She is going to realize her own misbehavior just as fast as you're ready to point things out to her. Don't add any embarassment.

[I love Sunshine]

 

As for sensationalism, I'd say the way the story is told in the original post is pretty sensational. I'd actually like to read an actual journalistic account of this story. Any links would be appreciated, whether in Chinese or English.

 

Here is a link to a story about how the man who got hit is trying to find the girl. It is in both Chinese and in English. This attempt to find the girl who helped him made bigger news in China than the event.

 

http://bbs.tongji.net/thread-508415-1-1.html

[I love Sunshine]

 

As for sensationalism, I'd say the way the story is told in the original post is pretty sensational. I'd actually like to read an actual journalistic account of this story. Any links would be appreciated, whether in Chinese or English.

 

Here is a link to a story about how the man who got hit is trying to find the girl. It is in both Chinese and in English. This attempt to find the girl who helped him made bigger news in China than the event.

 

http://bbs.tongji.net/thread-508415-1-1.html

 

 

And here is the original posting by the man who was hit, which garnered a lot of negative publicity about this event:

 

http://dzh.mop.com/dwdzh/topic/readSub_41_7774831_0_0.html

[Joshua + Wang Zhuo]

I agree with Jim 100 % as well. To me this post was about the Chinese people and their behaviors in China though. It is a different story when people from other cultures come here. If they do not want to be treated differently they need to blend into our culture. I have talked with my fiancee about her "rudeness" when cutting lines while shopping. She said that there really was no line and if you are not aggressive you can wait all day.

 

Now.......I get to look forward to seeing how long it takes her to modify her behaviors when she comes to the US. I certainly will make sure that I am with her in public places for a while. I can only imagine how it would go over if she used the same behaviors after arriving. Line jumping, Ignoring sales people, pushing, not tipping, etc.... But, she says she wants to learn .

 

I wonder if there are any crazy "Rude" behaviors that we have when we go to China? Are there any Chinese men or women on here that can shed a little light on this?

ing

Joshua

 

Have you encountered many rude Chinese or asian in US? If not, you needn't worry.

 

She is going to realize her own misbehavior just as fast as you're ready to point things out to her. Don't add any embarassment.

 

I believe she would be angry at me if I did not tell her something that she is doing that is "wrong" or socially frowned upon. I am not saying that she is rude. In fact, she is one of the kindest people I know. She gets upset with me if I do not correct her language when she speaks wrong. We have talked about it many times ans she would prefer for me to correct her than to do something "wrong" or for someone else to correct her.

 

I feel the same way. When I go to China I want her to tell me if I am doing something outside of the social norm, or if my language is incorrect. There is no need for her to be embarrassed in front of me, or for me to be embarrassed in front of her.

 

As far as encountering rude Asians in the US? Unfortunately I come from a small Midwest town and I very rarely encounter Asians. My Fiancee is the only Asian that I have ever really known other than in passing. In my travels in China I did see that there are many things different than at home, but that is one of the things that made it wonderful. The world would be very boring if we were all the same.

 

Joshua

[IllinoisDave]

In my travels in China I did see that there are many things different than at home, but that is one of the things that made it wonderful. The world would be very boring if we were all the same.

 

Ain't that the truth?

[Yuanyang]

 

As for sensationalism, I'd say the way the story is told in the original post is pretty sensational. I'd actually like to read an actual journalistic account of this story. Any links would be appreciated, whether in Chinese or English.

 

Here is a link to a story about how the man who got hit is trying to find the girl. It is in both Chinese and in English. This attempt to find the girl who helped him made bigger news in China than the event.

 

http://bbs.tongji.net/thread-508415-1-1.html

 

 

And here is the original posting by the man who was hit, which garnered a lot of negative publicity about this event:

 

http://dzh.mop.com/dwdzh/topic/readSub_41_7774831_0_0.html

Terrible. Very sad.

 

But that doesn't apply to the entire country. Dallas, Texas: (can't find the link yet) a store owner stumbles outside in the middle of the day. He's shot. No one helps. What does that say about Dallas? Texas? The USA?

[Tony_onrock]

Did any one read the full account of the story and how the guy lost his case?

 

The old lady did not complain till she heard the cost of the operation to fix her hip, over 100,000 RMB.

Then in court, the police report was missing when the guy tried to get a copy of it. Yet, the old lady was able to produce a photo of the records that her son took two days after the incident. The head of the police station lied first in court and said he took the photo of the statements, clear perjury. The court ignored the evidence rule, ie. the plaintiff has the burden of proof and the fact that the guy has an eye witness. Why was the trial court and police all helping the old lady? Her son was a policeman in the precinct!

TIC= this is China.

Every one talk about civility, no one focus on the abuse of power and corruption of the police and the court.

[Yuanyang]

Did any one read the full account of the story and how the guy lost his case?

 

The old lady did not complain till she heard the cost of the operation to fix her hip, over 100,000 RMB.

Then in court, the police report was missing when the guy tried to get a copy of it. Yet, the old lady was able to produce a photo of the records that her son took two days after the incident. The head of the police station lied first in court and said he took the photo of the statements, clear perjury. The court ignored the evidence rule, ie. the plaintiff has the burden of proof and the fact that the guy has an eye witness. Why was the trial court and police all helping the old lady? Her son was a policeman in the precinct!

TIC= this is China.

Every one talk about civility, no one focus on the abuse of power and corruption of the police and the court.

Ah Ha! Just the 'good-ole-boy' way.

[SirLancelot]

Did any one read the full account of the story and how the guy lost his case?

 

The old lady did not complain till she heard the cost of the operation to fix her hip, over 100,000 RMB.

Then in court, the police report was missing when the guy tried to get a copy of it. Yet, the old lady was able to produce a photo of the records that her son took two days after the incident. The head of the police station lied first in court and said he took the photo of the statements, clear perjury. The court ignored the evidence rule, ie. the plaintiff has the burden of proof and the fact that the guy has an eye witness. Why was the trial court and police all helping the old lady? Her son was a policeman in the precinct!

TIC= this is China.

Every one talk about civility, no one focus on the abuse of power and corruption of the police and the court.

 

Hmm, very interesting. I did not know of this story to begin with until this thread, and certainly not the details you've described Tony. Indeed sounds typical of Chinese police and guanxi.

 

On the other hand, aren't you in a position to directly help and affect change, as you're a lawyer stationed in China? Why not get out of corporate law and help all these countless number of innocents who need your defense?

 

One could argue that by helping the "corporations", you're in fact helping to perpetuate the suffering of the helpless. But I won't argue for that position.

[pkfops]

Just Remember:

 

When District Attorney Hamilton Burger lost a case to

Perry Mason, he would tell Perry it's his job to see justice served.

[Tony_onrock]

Did any one read the full account of the story and how the guy lost his case?

 

The old lady did not complain till she heard the cost of the operation to fix her hip, over 100,000 RMB.

Then in court, the police report was missing when the guy tried to get a copy of it. Yet, the old lady was able to produce a photo of the records that her son took two days after the incident. The head of the police station lied first in court and said he took the photo of the statements, clear perjury. The court ignored the evidence rule, ie. the plaintiff has the burden of proof and the fact that the guy has an eye witness. Why was the trial court and police all helping the old lady? Her son was a policeman in the precinct!

TIC= this is China.

Every one talk about civility, no one focus on the abuse of power and corruption of the police and the court.

 

Hmm, very interesting. I did not know of this story to begin with until this thread, and certainly not the details you've described Tony. Indeed sounds typical of Chinese police and guanxi.

 

On the other hand, aren't you in a position to directly help and affect change, as you're a lawyer stationed in China? Why not get out of corporate law and help all these countless number of innocents who need your defense?

 

One could argue that by helping the "corporations", you're in fact helping to perpetuate the suffering of the helpless. But I won't argue for that position.

Well, I worked for years in public interest sector in New York. I think I have paid back my dues.

In China, there is little an attorney can do arguing in the courts. The judges are more or less as corrupt as the other officials.

I am no longer an idealistic young man. I need $,$$$,$$$ as motivation.