Sa Jiao

[david_dawei]

for the record...

 

My wife does not do 'sa jiao'... it's unnecessary and child like...

 

In fact.. I showed her the thread and asked her why she never does it.. and she has done it none stop since...

 

So, do you enjoy it?

 

I told her to keep doing it since it reminded me of korean ladies.. [sorry, inside joke..and she stopped]

 

but we had about five minutes of seeing who could be king of sa jiao

[Joanne]

for the record...

 

My wife does not do 'sa jiao'... it's unnecessary ......

 

That's the best.

[Guest Rob & Jin]

for the record...

 

My wife does not do 'sa jiao'... it's unnecessary ......

 

That's the best.

 

So who is the King of Sa Jiao Dave ?

[david_dawei]

for the record...

 

My wife does not do 'sa jiao'... it's unnecessary ......

 

That's the best.

 

So who is the King of Sa Jiao Dave ?

both of us find it unnecessary... so it's a race with no runners... a tie by default.

[Guest Rob & Jin]

for the record...

 

My wife does not do 'sa jiao'... it's unnecessary ......

 

That's the best.

 

So who is the King of Sa Jiao Dave ?

both of us find it unnecessary... so it's a race with no runners... a tie by default.

 

Ok thats cool, we like it, its fun. Jin loves it i try to learn this, but were just big kids sometimes, and she loves it when the boys do it to me.

Edited October 1, 2007 by Rob & Jin (see edit history)

[timb]

Got to experience seeing this in my SO last night for the first time (web cam). It was cute and I think she was surprised when I mentioned (recognized) it was her Sa Jiao.

 

Tim B

[A Mafan]

bump because newer members might find it interesting/useful

[Turbo SS1414]

So I guess Sa Jiao is why my girl makes this cute little pouty face when she is unhappy or wants something I always just thought it was really cute haha.

[TLB]

This has been the most useful forum discussion in the history of the universe. (Ok, that may be an exaggeration but not by much.)

 

An understanding of sa jiao has been, by far, the most important mental adjustment that I have ever made. Well, that and the ability to REALLY understand the value of a dollar! -_^

 

You know, in some cases, the scratch-the-surface cultural understanding that Americans and Chinese have about each other can lead to some interesting conversations early in a relationship. Apparently, according to Chinese rumor, all Americans:

 

1. Do drugs

2. Have multiple girlfriends

3. Drink to excess

4. Own guns

5. Join gangs while teenagers

6. Enjoy "ladies of the evening"

7. Spend all their free time at the casino

8. etc.

 

 

Wow, this makes me feel like I've really missed something! I think I only do #8...

 

As for Sa Jiao, my fiancee was never pampered (one of three girls growing up during the Cultural Revolution and then single Mom after that). I love her playfulness and coyness -- I guess that's her Sa Jiao? I haven't seen any negative side of that...(yet)

 

It's been 15 years since her husband passed away (car accident) and she says she's looking forward to that "I have a Lao Gong" feeling again -- I wonder if being able to Sa Jiao is part of that.

[Guest Tony n Terrific]

My wife said Sa jiao means a flirtatious act or attitude.

[david_dawei]

My wife said Sa jiao means a flirtatious act or attitude.

It can include that, but that's a little narrow definition, IMO... Ask another lady who doesn't do it for flirtation reasons and she'll give another definition.

 

Like some concepts it's not easy to define in a word or two.

[Fu Lai]

http://news.echinacities.com/detail/7137-What-are-You-Five-Chinese-Women-and-Sa-Jiao

 

BTW, my girl admits using sa jiao all the time and I admit it adds so much humor and animation (especially because I know my girl is tough as can be).

What are You, Five? Chinese Women and Sa Jiao
Dec 21, 2012 By Jessica A. Larson-Wang, http://news.echinacities.com/detail/7137-What-are-You-Five-Chinese-Women-and-Sa-Jiao

You’ve probably witnessed a scene similar to this one before: A grown woman stomping her foot, whining cutely, pouting her lips and making eyes at her boyfriend. "Lao Gong," she might say, pitching her voice to resemble that of a petulant child, "you’re so horrible. You knew how much I wanted those shoes, and you went and bought yourself a new cell phone instead, so unfair! Humph!" She might cross her arms and look the other way, which is her boyfriend’s cue to give in, to tell her he’d buy her 12 pairs of shoes if she wanted him to, that her happiness is more important than say, making rent. If you’ve ever observed this from a Chinese woman (or perhaps been on the receiving end of such a display) then you know that there is a term for such behaviour, "sa jiao."

Sa Jiao does not easily translate into English. It could be called pouting, acting childishly, or being coquettish, but it does not have the negative connotations in Chinese society that such words do in English. It is considered cute and feminine, and a woman who does not engage in it might be seen as too hard, not womanly enough. Sa jiao, of course, is not just limited to persuading your boyfriend to buy you things. Sa jiao involves projecting a certain persona when you’re around the one you love. A girl might act clingy and needy. She might pretend to be incapable of doing things she’s actually quite capable of doing on her own. She might ask her boyfriend to kill the scary spiders in the bathroom or to help her rent an apartment. You will often hear Chinese women asking their boyfriends to "pei" or accompany them to this place or that, sometimes for seemingly no reason. One American man unleashed his Chinese girlfriend’s fury when he refused to accompany her to the vet when her dog was sick, this after seemingly endless requests to go with her on some mundane errand or another. This (feigned) inability to do anything on one’s own is also part of sa jiao.

And whereas most Western men do not find weak and childish behaviour particularly attractive in a woman, Chinese men are big fans of sa jiao. Having a woman who engages in such behaviour can, according to one Chinese man, make them feel strong and manly. It is a deeply engrained part of Chinese behaviour that has to do with traditional gender roles as well as with Chinese concepts of obligation. Sa jiao helps to ensure that everyone is playing their expected role. If the relationship progresses, the man will be expected to provide in full for his partner, which in modern terms often means that he’ll have to produce an apartment, a car and a steady job before a woman will even think of marrying him. While a Chinese woman may be very competent, and perfectly able to take care of herself, she will still expect her husband to support her, to look after her material needs while she does her part and looks after him physically and emotionally. Part of sa jiao is not appearing to be too independent or non-traditional, both of which are generally considered negative qualities by Chinese men. Chinese men may occasionally grow exasperated by sa jiao, but overall they consider it to be an important feminine quality and feel that it is worth the trouble, so to speak.

How foreigners handle sa jiao

Sa jiao often poses problems, however, for foreign men who date Chinese women, as, while some men may initially be attracted to the cutesy aspect of sa jiao, most men quickly grow irritated with what can be seen as a demanding attitude from their new girlfriend. Many can mistake sa jiao for materialism or even gold digging, when in fact sa jiao is usually less about acquiring things as it is a mindset. To a Chinese woman, sa jiao is about ensuring that her boyfriend cares enough for her to put her needs above his own, but to a Western man, sa jiao can feel suffocating. Western men often express frustration with their Chinese girlfriends – the jealousy, the constant testing of his love and commitment, the demands for gifts and the constant clinginess. Western society admires self sufficiency, independence and self confidence in both men and women. A Western woman who is too clingy or needy will quickly acquire a "high maintenance" label and will find herself much less lucky in love than her free spirited fun loving sisters who don’t mind if their boyfriends have female friends, who can squash a bug on their own, and who have steady (if non-threatening) careers. Sa jiao is pretty much the epitome of nearly every negative stereotype about the needy girlfriend, so it is little wonder that many Western men have trouble accepting it.

Understanding and identifying sa jiao is but one step towards having a healthier relationship with your Chinese partner. While Chinese people understand sa jiao and react to it intrinsically, foreigners often do not know how to handle a woman’s sa jiao. The main thing to remember is that the point of sa jiao is to give the man a chance to show how much he cares for his woman by putting her needs above his own, and for the woman to have a chance to show her deep gratitude for having his strong male presence in her life. It might be a bit outdated and old fashioned to most Westerners, but Western men who are seriously involved with a Chinese woman, especially one who uses sa jiao, should realise that the sorts of cultural attitudes which created sa jiao were not created overnight, nor will they be easily erased from a Chinese woman’s psyche. And while there are certainly Chinese women who don’t engage in sa jiao, they are the exception, not the rule. A man who doesn’t feel like he is up to handling a Chinese woman’s sa jiao might be better off looking for a girlfriend among his own countrymen, rather than seeking to change an attitude that most Chinese people don’t feel needs changing.

Edited January 30, 2013 by Fu Lai (see edit history)

[david_dawei]

 

http://news.echinacities.com/detail/7137-What-are-You-Five-Chinese-Women-and-Sa-Jiao

 

BTW, my girl admits using sa jiao all the time and I admit it adds so much humor and animation (especially because I know my girl is tough as can be).

 

What are You, Five? Chinese Women and Sa Jiao

Dec 21, 2012 By Jessica A. Larson-Wang, http://news.echinacities.com/detail/7137-What-are-You-Five-Chinese-Women-and-Sa-Jiao

 

 

That article was obviously written by a lady and for good reason... It is spot-on as to describing it and the underlying principles behind its use... Yes, it is an intentional use.

 

A deeper question may be: Why do women feel the need to use it?

 

 

The main thing to remember is that the point of sa jiao is to give the man a chance to show how much he cares for his woman by putting her needs above his own, and for the woman to have a chance to show her deep gratitude for having his strong male presence in her life. It might be a bit outdated and old fashioned to most Westerners, but Western men who are seriously involved with a Chinese woman, especially one who uses sa jiao, should realise that the sorts of cultural attitudes which created sa jiao were not created overnight, nor will they be easily erased from a Chinese woman’s psyche. And while there are certainly Chinese women who don’t engage in sa jiao, they are the exception, not the rule. A man who doesn’t feel like he is up to handling a Chinese woman’s sa jiao might be better off looking for a girlfriend among his own countrymen, rather than seeking to change an attitude that most Chinese people don’t feel needs changing.

 

Even this does not really answer it except if one reads between the lines that they are in a perpetual need of the other's conveying security... so the question is: Why do they always feel the need to act like a child to extract an expression of a strong male presences????? It becomes obvious at some point... I hope.

[Fu Lai]

I suspect it is used, at least in my girl's respect, to gently point out what they consider failure by the man to assist his girl. Maybe a way to save face for everyone, the girl who needs help and the guy who is not helping?

[amberjack1234]

My wife has never exhibited this tactic. She never ask for anything. Bothers me sometimes that she don't. Just goes to show they are all different.

 

Larry