Cops!

[JimandSarha]

How much police do you want to afford?

 

My point is that, the police we all are giggly/romantic about doesn't exist. We think we pay for policing, we pay for traffic enforcement. For the money spent, I'd prefer that police patrol communities, not the highways.

 

Yes, I expect to get lectured for small traffic violations. Not ticketed. Ever pulled a bit far up into a crosswalk at an intersection? I have here and there. I've gotten a photo ticket for the US violation and just a stern wave and a shush back in China. I've seen them do it to the locals too, not just me, the privileged westerner.

 

And I know very well what happens in US and Chinese jails. Neither one is right. Where's the media oversight of our system? The Chinese media is controlled. But we have no excuse.

 

I don't know how old you are. I don't know where you grew up. But I'm 51 years old. I grew up in the bottom land of Mississipi and Alabama. EVERYONE had a gun in their car and it was loaded. The county police would pull over people in the middle of nowhere for being drunk, stealing chickens, beating the wife, whatever. Nobody got shot. No body armor, No paranoia. Do you know why? The people knew each other.

 

You cant patrol and prevent crime from a car. Especially in cities where most of the crime exists. When you're getting the living crap beat out of you in Cabrini Green in Chicago (if it still exists) a cop or a hundred cops in squad cars won't help you or hear you.

 

As for China, I can call the police right now and they will stay on the phone with us and be here in 2-3 minutes tops. They are inside the community 24/7. The roving security patrol will likely beat them here by a minute or two. They even take my dog in if I'm gone all day and can't get back. They tape a note on my door to come and get him.

 

When I get goods delivered here for consolidation and reshipment they help me carry them in, stacking boxes on the seats of their bicycles and pushing them in from the street. They carry them in and stack them in the third bedroom for me.

 

Try to get an American Cop to pull over and sit with the cherries on behind you while you change a flat. That's a 50/50 proposition unless you have cleavage.

 

Im glad you like your police coverage. I don't. And if you poll the American public, you'll find I'm probably not so far off normal.

 

Now are there crooks in Chinese police? Yeah, no kidding. You can bribe some or most of them for all I know. My wife says most of them are crooks. They all have the most modern cellphones because the pickpockets make sure to grease the cops first with their booty. And if stolen goods don't get recovered by the rightful owners, well, let's just say it supplements the department budget.

 

Is that right? No, its not.

 

But I will tell you that I walk the streets of China at all hours of the night with absolutely no fear.

 

I even know why. If a foreigner is harmed in China, you can be sure someone will be punished. Maybe not the right person. But someone will get punished severely. Its just the way the system works and if you're a bad guy, you don't want the neighborhood plainclothesman to have a beef with you when they can't find the right guy. Pickpocketing of foreigners is fair game though. Watch out.

 

All in all, I'd rather have Chinese police methods. They are where I need them.

 

And if American traffic needs so much policing, how come I see far more accidents in America than I do in the total chaos of Chinese traffic? Left to its own, traffic is self regulating and self instructing. People drive with no policing in China, half them time with their headlights off and manage to have taught themselves to not eat, not talk on the phone and keep their kids quiet. Traffic cameras keep speeders in bay.

 

We should try it.

[DMikeS4321]

I was Police Commissioner in my town for three years, and I respect the job they do. It is very difficult and I wouldn't want to do it.

 

That said...

 

Traffic enforcement in this country has nothing to do with the law or safety (or maybe I should say the laws don't make sense). It's all about revenue. In the meantime, public respect for L.E. diminishes.

 

We have way too many traffic laws and our speed limits are a joke, especially on the freeway. We should have basic safety laws and a complete change in orientation, away from revenue and towards REAL safety, not arbitrary standards designed specifically for generation of revenue.

 

Best Regards

 

 

 

The entire justice system is way too stuck on itself. They've deluded themselves that fear = respect.

 

Here's what it means to me to be an American. Freedom. Ownership of your government. Government at the federal level is divided into the three main branches. Executive, Legislative and Judicial.

 

Here is how you can tell that the Judicial system is off the track, broken and looks at you as a feudal subject.

 

Find out where President Bush is going to be appearing. Go there. Heckle him mercilessly. Do it even if you love the guy. Tell him he's a fool, incompetent, you wish he would do the country a favor and drop dead. What is going to happen to you? Nothing. If you are doing it from the front row you might get escorted out for causing a public disturbance. Will you be arrested, jailed? Almost certainly not.

 

Do the same for your Senator or Representative. Same result. You can even go into their actual offices and tell them to their faces they are idiots. You will be asked to leave but that's it.

 

Now. Do you want to do this to a policeman? I imagine not. Not even from a distance. Want to walk into your local courthouse and go into a public courtroom and react verbally to whatever the judge's decisions are as they progress through their morning? We all know that challenging much less verbalizing our displeasure or contempt for the judicial system will get us arrested, beat up or worse. I'd put the odds at 50/50 with cops and 100% with judges.

 

The justice system doesn't take any crap out of you.

 

That's why I don't trust it, don't respect it and generally think that it needs to be redone from the bottom up.

 

Jim

 

You might want to try riding with a US law enforcement agency for a week and I think you'll change your tune. You sound like the classic case of someone ticketed for speeding and arguing with the patrol officer that they should be out cracking down on more important law breakers...

 

As aye,

 

Jim

Why argue? I never do. I just get a lawyer or go for deferred adjudication.

 

I did give a policeman a piece of my mind once. I asked him how he could go home to his wife and kids after working a job that does nothing but harrass honest citizens all day. I forget all the words now, but he just looked ashamed when I got through. I don't feel bad about it either.

 

I reported a State Trooper who didn't like the way I looked at him, and acted as if he was ready to punch me out. Got right in my face and acted all tough guy. He was training a rooky who was shocked at his actions. I just stood there waiting for the hit that never came. He was a real hot head. SO I called the judge, who knew him and admitted they had problems with the guy, but would pass on my comments to his super.

 

I don't understand the desire to be any kind of traffic cop, deputy county sherriff, or state trooper. Talk about all the brave things that happen from time to time you want, the easy road of tickets is too often what is taken. Ticket writing causes more distrust and disliking of officers than anything else. They shouldn't need bumper stickers asking us to back the Blue. We should want to. I dang sure do not contribute to their legal slush fund anymore, when they call asking for donations. I don't understand cities that want revenue from tickets instead of protection from harm by the taxes we pay. I don't understand judges and perole boards letting drunk drivers off so easy, to return drunk to the roads. Pull the radar out of squad cars as a show of less harrassment, then maybe I will donate to their legal fund again. One can judge if a person is reckless, drunk, or driving way faster than most. At one time in this country, speed limits were set by the average speed people drove on a particualr stretch of road. Our cars and tires are way more advanced than when the limits were set anyway.

 

rant rant rant

 

PS: Now nothing personal Jim

[DMikeS4321]

Your post is so completely right on! I couldn't agree more.

 

How much police do you want to afford?

 

My point is that, the police we all are giggly/romantic about doesn't exist. We think we pay for policing, we pay for traffic enforcement. For the money spent, I'd prefer that police patrol communities, not the highways.

 

When did we, as a nation, accept this transition? I'm also tired of hearing about "Your driver's license is a PRIVILEGE, not a RIGHT!". Take away someone's ability to move and you have taken away their freedom.

 

I don't know how old you are. I don't know where you grew up. But I'm 51 years old. I grew up in the bottom land of Mississipi and Alabama. EVERYONE had a gun in their car and it was loaded. The county police would pull over people in the middle of nowhere for being drunk, stealing chickens, beating the wife, whatever. Nobody got shot. No body armor, No paranoia. Do you know why? The people knew each other.

 

They knew each other and they RESPECTED each other.

 

You cant patrol and prevent crime from a car.

 

When I was commissioner, the Chief would profide us all kinds of detailed stats regarding traffic violations. There wasn't nearly as much info about misdemeanor and felony offenses. I used to raise hell about that, but the City Council was only interested in revenue, where to focus 'enforcement' so we could 'realize a greater return on our investment in community services'. Still makes me angry to think about it.

 

Im glad you like your police coverage. I don't. And if you poll the American public, you'll find I'm probably not so far off normal.

 

American police departments are living off the goodwill generated from years gone by. Nowdays they all wear the mirror glasses, are armed to the teeth and have adopted an 'us or them' attitude. The police station has become home to a kind of 'locker room' mentality that fosters that 'brotherhood' attitude. I used to get off tickets by flashing my Commissioner's ID, even when I didn't ask for or expect special treatment, but what REALLY fried me was when a new or rookie cop didn't know who I was. The treatment I would receive would be horrible until the officer learned who I was. THEN the red carpet would roll out. I found that to be offensive because I KNEW the average joe had to eat the sh*t they were trying to feed me until they found out who I was. And I'm not talking drunk driving or armed robbery. One time one of the veteran officers flagged me down, while he was wearing CIVILIAN CLOTHES, ostensibly because my daughters (7 years old and 10 years old at the time) were supposedly flipping him off. When his flashlight beam hit my face, he damned near died; I was driving a new car and he didn't recognize it. He fell all over himself begging forgiveness. I chewed his ass for BEING an ass. He retired shortly thereafter. (The only upside was that my daughters STILL think I have a direct line to the Lord.)

 

Now are there crooks in Chinese police? Yeah, no kidding. You can bribe some or most of them for all I know. My wife says most of them are crooks. They all have the most modern cellphones because the pickpockets make sure to grease the cops first with their booty. And if stolen goods don't get recovered by the rightful owners, well, let's just say it supplements the department budget.

 

But I will tell you that I walk the streets of China at all hours of the night with absolutely no fear.

 

When I took my 15 year old daughter and her girlfriend to China in August of 2005, we stayed in Guangzhou for about a week. The kids had the run of the city, one of the largest in the world, at all hours, day and night. I wouldn't let them do that here in my hometown of 45,000 for fear that I'd never see them again. I do believe a lot of it is cultural, but I also think L.E. bears some responsibility, as does our judicial system.

 

And if American traffic needs so much policing, how come I see far more accidents in America than I do in the total chaos of Chinese traffic?

 

Excellent point.

[bosco]

for some rather interesting related reading try Googling: police MMPI

 

(MMPI stands for Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory)

[DMikeS4321]

 

I've got a Glock too, it makes me nobody.

 

Jim

 

Actually, it makes you SOMEBODY. That's the point of the 2nd Amendment, and that's why so many in power HATE it!!

 

Best Regards

[DMikeS4321]

With this kind of attitude, I would be surprised if you didn't get a ticket when you get pulled over for a traffic infraction. Are you saying the police should not do anything when a law is broken by not sweating the little stuff?

 

I read somewhere (I think on this forum) that our legal system consists of strict enforcement of loose laws, whereas China's system consists of loose enforcement of strict laws. Maybe accurate, maybe not, I don't know, but if it IS true, maybe we should consider not making every little F'ing thing illegal. I thnk we're heading for the worst of BOTH worlds.

 

I grew up before seatbelts were mandatory. Do I wear them now? ABSOLUTELY. My kids forced me to when they learned about seatbelts in school. I wear them now out of habit. Should we have seatbelt laws? I don't think so.

 

Hell, now it's illegal to smoke in your car while you're driving. This kind of nit-picky stuff should stop. California passes HUNDREDS of new laws every year, most of which none of us even know about until we're in trouble.

 

This kind of thing is a major part of the problem, IMHO.

[bosco]

 

I've got a Glock too, it makes me nobody.

 

Jim

 

Actually, it makes you SOMEBODY. That's the point of the 2nd Amendment, and that's why so many in power HATE it!!

 

Best Regards

 

ok tough guy.

[Carl]

I think city size has some something to do with the attitudes of the police. Kerrville is not a large city, so our police pretty much get invilved in all aspects of law enforcement. Everything from minor traffic violations to murder investigations. They are not perfect, but they do a good job and I have no problems.

 

I have had one run-in with the police here in Kerrville. I was driving on an expired vehicle inspection. The policeman who stopped me was very courteous, kept calling me sir, explained why I was being stopped and explained the ticket emphasizing that if I corrected the offense in 10 days I could waive the fine. It surprised Ying as to how courteous he was, but I explained that if I had been belligerent or acted like an ass his tone would have been different.

[IllinoisDave]

I just love it when I hear people who do everything they can to avoid paying their share of taxes complain about things like police response.

 

The main reason police response in some places is so bad is because cities/counties/states don't have enough money to hire enough personnel to cover a given jurisdiction.

 

You get what you pay for.

[Dennis143]

I try very hard to avoid police at all cost. The last thing I want to see a video of me in my grease-stained, 'wife beater' shirt, drunk and taking wild swings at those ociffers, eh, officers on that COPS show.

[bosco]

short-hand:

 

Was given a ticket for doing 86 in a 55 in another state. I had a witness that I was doing 61 in a 65 (double-checked by checking the mile-post noted on the ticket).

 

Went back three months later for hearing.

 

First order of business, the bailiff came out and stated that as everyone was only here to try and save their insurance rates the court, for an additional $9 on top of the citation amount, would be offering to convert each ticket to a non-moving violation. You know, just to speed things along.

 

Example1: A kid cited for driving 125mph in a school zone had his ticket changed to driving without his license on his person.

 

Example2: A woman cited for running one red-light and then a second while trying to escape pursuit had her ticket changed to driving with expired tabs.

 

Anyway, I watched all of this going down for more than 5 hours before they called my case. They offered to change mine to littering.

 

When it was my turn to speak I was soooo angry that I went ahead and told them what I really thought of their little scheme. I stated that I was absolutely appalled to have witnessed more than 5 hours of officers of the court committing perjury and fraud.

 

I argued the specifics of my case and offered photographic proof that the officer erred in what he wrote on the ticket.

 

Bottom line: The judge dismissed the ticket completely BUT STILL CHARGED ME $175 FOR COURT COSTS! THE SAME AMOUNT AS THE ORIGINAL TICKET!!!

 

**************************************

 

This is not the only such case that I have experienced in 37 years of driving. Some of you already hit the nail on the head.

 

IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY!!!!

 

I drive a 4Runner with company advert in the side back windows. I repair computers and networks for a living. Cops in small towns see nice car and computers and suddenly see $$$$$$ and someone who won't have time to come back to their little town to bother to fight. I have spent far more money traveling and taking time off work than the tickets ever were but I believe in doing the right thing and standing up for the truth. I guess my parents raised me wrong.

[DMikeS4321]

 

I've got a Glock too, it makes me nobody.

 

Jim

 

Actually, it makes you SOMEBODY. That's the point of the 2nd Amendment, and that's why so many in power HATE it!!

 

Best Regards

 

ok tough guy.

 

???

 

Now, why would you mess with someone if you REALLY thought they were tough?

[NUWORLD]

Police in China are perhaps 1000% better than police in the United States. They are polite, they are helpful, they don't sweat the little stuff. They've never heard of John Wayne, have no complex's. Don't fear their own citizen's. They don't need 3 cars to make a traffic stop. They aren't armed to the teeth and scared so s**tless of the public that they feel the need to use them.

 

Most importantly, Chinese cops are on the street where they might actually be helpful. They don't see themselves as secondary collectors of taxes that politician's don't have the guts to collect. Whereas American police either can't be found or 90% of them are in speed traps desperately trying to collect traffic fines to supplement taxes.

 

I have never felt a twinge of dread with Chinese police, even when they have occassionally waived me over on my scooter to point out some inadvertant infraction. They've never tried to ticket me either.

 

On the other hand, the Police in San Diego and most of Southern CA are feared by the citizens and shoot people at an alarming rate I never saw even in the violence of the projects in Chicago.

 

American police need to get over themselves. And if they feel they have to wear body armor 24/7, maybe they ought to look at themselves as the cause.

 

 

 

With this kind of attitude, I would be surprised if you didn't get a ticket when you get pulled over for a traffic infraction. Are you saying the police should not do anything when a law is broken by not sweating the little stuff? And why would you expect not to be ticketed for commiting a traffic infraction, even inadvertently? That is ground for citing you unattentive or careless driving. 3 cars to make a traffic stop, sure. How do you know the car he has just stopped wasn't associated with someone with a warrent? American cops aren't armed to the teeth and scared so s**tless of the public that they feel the need to use them. They are arm to the teeth just to level the playing field. You wouldn't bring a knife to a gun fight, would you? Since over 80% of our population drive ourself to whereever we need to go, I would say the most effiective way to patrol is by car, let alone that improves the respond time. Try to call for police in China and watch how long it take them to show up. Responding to a crime is very different than responding to a fire. More than not the fire would still be burning by the time the engines got there but a crime has already been commited by the time the officer get the call from dispatch.

 

And obviously you haven't seen the "other" side of police business in China!

 

 

Yes! I agree! Most people never see the other side of police work!

and never will other than sitting in the back seat of a cop car.

 

Like SinoTexas said and i agree with this Quote:

 

You might want to try riding with a US law enforcement agency for a week and I think you'll change your tune.

 

I have had many ride alongs with me before and everyone of them had the same Attitude! As most have today.

But after a few days doing the ride along with me that Attitude change for the best!

 

Also like toy_rn65 said:

 

obviously you haven't seen the "other" side of police business in China!

 

Spend enough time in china and maybe you will understand.

 

There is a saying

DO THE CRIME DO THE TIME

It's that and simple. Edited June 27, 2007 by NUWORLD (see edit history)

[toy_rn65]

Read and watch these and you will understand why the police handle things the way they do. The bottom line is they do what has to be done to make sure they are the one who get to go home at the end of the shift.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,286667,00.html

 

http://www.myfoxboston.com/myfox/pages/Hom...mp;pageId=1.1.1

 

http://www.myfoxboston.com/myfox/MyFox/pag...mp;locale=EN-US

[NUWORLD]

 

I've got a Glock too, it makes me nobody.

 

Jim

 

Actually, it makes you SOMEBODY. That's the point of the 2nd Amendment, and that's why so many in power HATE it!!

 

Best Regards

 

And you wonder why:

 

Cops on the other hand occasionally shoot citizens to death for no apparent cause.

 

Pull a gun during a trafic stop and there is a very good chance someone will not be going home that day!

This is why!!! You all just don't get it!!

 

There is one thing for sure it will be me going home!!

Edited June 27, 2007 by NUWORLD (see edit history)