Looking for opinions

[robert]

Looking for input and opinions on this potential sensitive subject. I am 54 years of age and self retired. I am financially stable. I was married once previous for a period of 2 years and have been divorced for 26 years. My son was 6 weeks old when divorced and I have raised him myself. We are still very close today. We are all optimistic when we marry that it is the love of our life and it will last till our days end. But we also recognize the possibility that sometimes our hopes do not always work out that way. I am very excited about my forthcoming marriage to Limei and am not selfish about finances. I have now been supporting her in China for the past year. This started when we agreed that it would be advantageous for both of us if she quit her job and enrolled in english classes full time of which she did. I also moved her into a nicer apartment. When she comes here it is her decision whether she wants to work. It is not neccesary, only if she desires to. Hoping not to upset any of you with this question I am curious if any of you entered into a prenuptial agreement prior to marriage with your foriegn bride. If I were marrying an american lady I have to admit that I would not hesitate a prenuptial, but with Limei and her chinese culture I do not feel as strong about this direction. Is the love that I feel for her clouding my judgement???? Thanks for any input, thoughts and feelings that any of you have in regards to this subject..Rob

[rlheim]

Thin ice brother.

[jwmurphy]

I believe the women from China have more respect and honor than the women from america. Even if you both are unsuccessful in your relationship, she would probably only accept what you want to her to have.

[bosco]

I chose to roll the dice and not worry about it.

[Dennis143]

Prenuptials have been discussed before and some members here have prenupts. I am sure you¡¯ll be hearing from them soon.

[Guest Mike and Lily]

That would be a sensitive subject in any impending marriage. I would consider it more seriously if there is a large age difference between you and your SO. One other thing you might consider is a family trust to ensure that your son is taken care of if anything happens to you. I would discuss specifics of these subjects with an attorney prior to getting married. That is what I am going to do.

[ameriken]

I would agree, if it were another American woman, it would be a must. However, for my present marriage, I didnt feel it was at all necessary.

 

I looked at it two ways: if I was absolutely confident about her, feeling that I know and trust her fully, there was no need to get one. The other side of it was, if I had some kind of doubt and skepticism about her that made me think about a pre-nup, then should I even be marrying her?

[robert]

I would agree, if it were another American woman, it would be a must. However, for my present marriage, I didnt feel it was at all necessary.

 

I looked at it two ways: if I was absolutely confident about her, feeling that I know and trust her fully, there was no need to get one. The other side of it was, if I had some kind of doubt and skepticism about her that made me think about a pre-nup, then should I even be marrying her?

I have always said that if I were to marry again I would have a prenup. However Limei has diminished that position and I do not feel that neccesity with her. I guess that is why I posed this question? Are my feelings for her clouding my judgement?

[robert]

I would agree, if it were another American woman, it would be a must. However, for my present marriage, I didnt feel it was at all necessary.

 

I looked at it two ways: if I was absolutely confident about her, feeling that I know and trust her fully, there was no need to get one. The other side of it was, if I had some kind of doubt and skepticism about her that made me think about a pre-nup, then should I even be marrying her?

I have always said that if I were to marry again I would have a prenup. However Limei has diminished that position and I do not feel that neccesity with her. I guess that is why I posed this question? Are my feelings for her clouding my judgement?

As stated I will be 54 in july...Limei turned 36 last december.

[shaffej7070]

Have you discussed this with her? IMO, I would never consider it unless I was Bill Gates, but if you have worked hard for your present disposition and considering the welfare of your son...follow your heart, but use wise judgement.

[credzba]

Perhaps I can help.

I was recently divorced, and when I decided to marry the love of my life my lawyer immediately suggested a prenup. My previous wife had been pretty intent on taking all she could.

 

Here is the law.

Anything that you have, and can prove you had before the marriage remains soley yours after the marriage.

The co-ownership of property only begins after the marriage.

 

So, say you had 500,000 in a 401k. If you marry she does not get half of that 500,000 she would get half of any intrest that accrued on that 500,000.

 

Same way with all your other assets. They don't get automatic ownership of things you have before your married. a prenup just modifies what she can claim of things you gain after the marriage.

 

With this information I told my lawyer no way. I fully consider what I gain after I am married to belong to us both, I can not live without her anyway.

 

I can only think of a very few situations where a prenup is reasonable now that I understand. If I had bought a bunch of oil wells that produced income each month before we were married, I can see explaining that income is no way associated with my new wife... but us normal hard working folks .. a prenup is a waste of your money, and an insult to your new wife.

[robert]

Perhaps I can help.

I was recently divorced, and when I decided to marry the love of my life my lawyer immediately suggested a prenup. My previous wife had been pretty intent on taking all she could.

 

Here is the law.

Anything that you have, and can prove you had before the marriage remains soley yours after the marriage.

The co-ownership of property only begins after the marriage.

 

So, say you had 500,000 in a 401k. If you marry she does not get half of that 500,000 she would get half of any intrest that accrued on that 500,000.

 

Same way with all your other assets. They don't get automatic ownership of things you have before your married. a prenup just modifies what she can claim of things you gain after the marriage.

 

With this information I told my lawyer no way. I fully consider what I gain after I am married to belong to us both, I can not live without her anyway.

 

I can only think of a very few situations where a prenup is reasonable now that I understand. If I had bought a bunch of oil wells that produced income each month before we were married, I can see explaining that income is no way associated with my new wife... but us normal hard working folks .. a prenup is a waste of your money, and an insult to your new wife.

Outstanding response! Thank you for your intelligent reply. I agree with you that anything accrued during a marriage should be the property of both parties and the insult to suggest a prenup to your fiance' is a slap in the face of the relationship. I knew that I would not be able to propose this to Limei but was more questioning my own reason for changing directions of what I always thought I would do should I marry again. She is a wonderful person and I know that I could not insult her with a prenup proposal. In fact I doubt if she even understands what one is. I do appreciate your response. Thanks!

[I love Sunshine]

I will take a slightly different perspective than the others have taken. I was married before to another girl from Asia and wished I had signed a prenup with her. (She was not Chinese).

 

First of all, your bride-to-be is coming to a new country and there is a rather big unknown associated with this. My ex changed dramatically after she came to the USA, and sadly this had an impact on the reasons for divorce. She a number of problems that didn't surface until after we were married. Also, it didn't help that she got close to a number of bitter divorcees who had married and came to the US, and were living comfortably on their divorce settlements.

 

Second of all, I was only slightly older than my ex, but very different in terms of our earning abilities. I was made painfully aware of this in divorce court how contribution into the marriage matters very little.

 

I have confidence that many women are not like my ex. Most women in China want love, not an escape from a bad previous life in her country like my ex wanted.

 

Prenups can be written in many different ways, and they are not "all or nothing" papers.

 

First, there can be a sunset clause in them; for example, saying that after 10 years of marriage, the prenup conditions are null and void. Or they can be removed in a gradual way.

 

Second, they can be written to protect your assets coming in to the marriage, not the assets you accumulate. So it gives you incentive to get rich together.

 

Third, they can protect assets you may want to pass on to your children from a previous marriage.

 

I know there will be others to disagree with my advice. It is a very uncomfortable subject to bring up. My SO offered to sign a prenup after seeing the pain involved with my divorce; this made me see that what she wanted in the relationship for the right reasons. I am not sure if we will eventually sign one, but her offer to sign one made me see that she is genuine.

[jim_julian]

Robert ... My Lao Po and I have a pre-nuptial agreement.

 

We live in California, a community property state, and were married here after a K1 visa process. My ex-wife of 26 years and I still have not settled financially and we've been working on the settlement for almost 2.5 years.

 

I have considerable means and, at 63, am still working. Lao Po was financially comfortable in China where she owned and operated a restaurant and has an interest in a family farm. There is a 22 year age difference. I have three children ranging from 17 to 28 from my previous marriage and Lao Po has an 18 year old daughter who will be coming from China to live with us in a few weeks.

 

I discussed the concept of a pre-nup with Lao Po before I asked her to marry me. We had agreement in principle at the time of our engagement. In my personal view it is not "fair" (whatever that means) to spring a pre-nup on your intended at the last minute. It should be introduced early and thoroughly discussed. Every marriage is forever on the wedding day but you just cannot predict what will happen through the years together. In my view, in a state like California, a pre-nup is absolutely essential.

 

Our pre-nup was drafted by my lawyer based on the principles Lao Po and I discussed.

 

I brought it to China and it was translated by an official Notary and memorialized in the typical white book with stamps and certifications. The only part that is not put through the notary process is the appendix listing assets. Evidently this would fall under a business contract rule and the Notary would get a percentage of the assets mentioned ... making it the most expensive translation in the world.

 

In the US, before marriage, Lao Po selected a lawyer from a list of local family law lawyers. After the initial meeting she rejected the first lawyer she picked and met a second. She was satisfied with the second lawyer. Although Lao Po understands English well we hired a court certified Mandarin translator (who was also a lawyer). Lao Po met alone with her family lawyer and the translator and went through the pre-nup line by line. They explained to her exactly what it meant. In their presence she then signed the pre-nup. I signed in a meeting with my lawyer. The only other thing that is sometimes done is to video tape the counseling and signing sessions.

 

You don't want a pre-nup overturned on the basis that your foreign spouse did not understand or was coerced into signing. The entire process cost us about $2000.

 

Lao Po and I are deeply in love and very happily married ... forever.

 

I recommend that every couple strongly consider a pre-nup from a practical economic viewpoint as opposed to an emotional "but we love each other" viewpoint. Chinese ladies in general are very business/finance oriented. My Lao Po had no trouble seeing why I wanted a pre-nup and agreeing.

[ameriken]

I would agree, if it were another American woman, it would be a must. However, for my present marriage, I didnt feel it was at all necessary.

 

I looked at it two ways: if I was absolutely confident about her, feeling that I know and trust her fully, there was no need to get one. The other side of it was, if I had some kind of doubt and skepticism about her that made me think about a pre-nup, then should I even be marrying her?

I have always said that if I were to marry again I would have a prenup. However Limei has diminished that position and I do not feel that neccesity with her. I guess that is why I posed this question? Are my feelings for her clouding my judgement?

I guess some will say yes, some will say no, its a judgment call and I think both sides of the issue will have equally valid points.

 

Again, I asked the same question before marrying, and decided against a pre-nup. After we married, she mentioned seeing other women write about their husbands wanting a pre-nup, and the majority of women were rather put off and hurt by the thought, feeling it was not only unnecessary, but also that their husbands didnt trust them.

 

IMO, divorce is simply not in the mindset of a large # of Chinese women, to divorce is an extremely difficult thing to do.

 

As for age, I am 48, she is 27, if that means anything.

Edited April 19, 2007 by ameriken (see edit history)