What About a Pre-Nup

[phantom1949]

I have very mixed feelings on this topic but wanted everyones thoughts.

 

I believe that when a man and women decide to share their lives together, then it is forever and so a Pre-Nup is not needed.

 

But then there is reality. Most of us have been divorced and know how expensive it can be in time, money and heartache.

 

We have all read posts here about women wanting to marry an American to come here and get a green card. I married an Asian woman 7 years ago who was wonderful and I was deeply in love with her. It didn't work between us as she did like dating other men.

 

Reality it when you meet someone from China (or anyother place or even here in America), unless you are living with them or see them on a regular basis you know what your SO says but not what she really wants (I am generaling here and mean no disrespect to anyone). If I were wrong here, then the members whose SO cheated on them or just wanted a green card would not of happened.

 

The Asian lady I was in love with 7 years ago lived in LA and I lived in Florida. We spoke on the phone for hours every day, we each wrote these long e-mail's and constantly IM'd each other. We would fly to see each other for 2-3 weeks at a time and spent 24 hours a day together during those fantasy trips. When we were dating, all she spoke about was wanting a man who would not cheat on her as all her past men did. She told me how much it hurt when these men cheated on her. Sounded great and we had a great time together and I thought I had finally found my partner in life.

 

We got married in Las Vegas and I moved her and her children to Florida. I was so happy. It seemed that when she entered the room, the room was brighter.

 

The second night after she had moved in, we were going to sleep and she rolled over and told me that she wanted me to be happy. SO, if I wanted to date other women it was OK with her. Well from there it only got worse and 15 months later after numerous go rounds on her Male Friends approach to life we were divorced and she went home to LA.

 

I am sure DavidZ will correct me but it seems that Americans live in s dream world when it comes to relationships and Chinese live in the practical world.

 

Visits to China (the fantasy trips), and phone calls, and e-mails and Web Cams are great but we are still marrying a woman we really do not know and will not know until we are married. If they are sincere and you both want to make it work, then you lucked out.

 

Now I am not knocking anyone here, as I am here and in the process also of meeting someone.

 

I can tell you all the reasons that Nicole is different and special and is interested in me not the money (I am not rich or poor-sort of like my politics - middle of the road).

 

While we all (including me) think otherwise, we are in essence marrying someone we do not know.

 

Many tell me to keep my feet on the ground and stay in touch with reality.

 

In one of my other posts, someone mentioned to get a Pre-Nup and it started me thinking about it.

 

I have no conclusion on this. I do not like the idea of a Pre-Nup but since we are in essence marrying someone we really do not know, do we need this kind of protection? As some have or will find out a divorce is expensive.

 

Is a Pre-Nup in the Chinese culture considered normal or an insult?

How would a Chinese Lady respond to a Pre-Nup?

Is this over-reaction to being protected?

 

So, ladies and gentlemen, what are your thoughts????

I am very interested in hearing what the ladies on this site think of a Pre-Nup.

[NewDay2006]

Phantom, i appreciate your post. I can relate to it on different levels.

 

I think one of your main points that I got from this thread is that, we can never be sure who we marry. Just as the woman part of the deal never knows who they are in fact marrying.

 

You proved that just because you knew someone from LA didn't matter. She could have been Asian, White, Black or even Martian... Until you live with someone, you just don't know.

You might know right away or you may find out 2-10 years from meeting her....Heck you or she may never find out about everything if the other wants to conceal the "dirty" laundry.

 

I do beleive true love is possible.... That's why i'm still hre. Some try all thier lives and never find it.

 

My marriage to my 2nd wife lasted 8 years after living together for 1 year and dating long distance for a year as she was from Puerto Rico. The 1st 2- 3 years of the relationship was good, although I don't think I was every deeply in love with her, but I know I did love her. While, I can't say it was all her problem, but I felt she showed a side of her that was ugly and she did show me flashes, which I chose to ignore and "deal" with. eventually, we divorced. I could go on, but it wouldn't serve a purpose. But on this matter, there are no guarentees.

 

Now as far as a Pre Nup, you can do it to protect your "stuff" in case you get divorce... many states will only consider things acquired after the marriage to be considered as "marital property". but in regards to divorce as person from another country... once you fill out the I-864 and it is accepted, that is another story. You are on the hook to maybe provide support at 125% above the proverty level, I'm not sure how much this enforced.

http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=21169

 

I hope deals with some of your concerns

[phantom1949]

Phantom, i appreciate your post. I can relate to it on different levels.

 

I think one of your main points that I got from this thread is that, we can never be sure who we marry. Just as the woman part of the deal never knows who they are in fact marrying.

 

You proved that just because you knew someone from LA didn't matter. She could have been Asian, White, Black or even Martian... Until you live with someone, you just don't know.

You might know right away or you may find out 2-10 years from meeting her....Heck you or she may never find out about everything if the other wants to conceal the "dirty" laundry.

 

I do beleive true love is possible.... That's why i'm still hre. Some try all thier lives and never find it.

 

My marriage to my 2nd wife lasted 8 years after living together for 1 year and dating long distance for a year as she was from Puerto Rico. The 1st 2- 3 years of the relationship was good, although I don't think I was every deeply in love with her, but I know I did love her. While, I can't say it was all her problem, but I felt she showed a side of her that was ugly and she did show me flashes, which I chose to ignore and "deal" with. eventually, we divorced. I could go on, but it wouldn't serve a purpose. But on this matter, there are no guarentees.

 

Now as far as a Pre Nup, you can do it to protect your "stuff" in case you get divorce... many states will only consider things acquired after the marriage to be considered as "marital property". but in regards to divorce as person from another country... once you fill out the I-864 and it is accepted, that is another story. You are on the hook to maybe provide support at 125% above the proverty level, I'm not sure how much this enforced.

http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=21169

 

I hope deals with some of your concerns

 

These are not necessary concerns as more questions. I agree with everything you said. To me a pre-nup is planning to divorce before you even get married. It shows a lack of committment, etc. I think that the advise many give of keeping your feet on the ground and staying in touch with reality is the best advise. For those of us who have been divorced, we can look back and in retrospect saw problems while dating that we ignored and should not have.

 

Someone suggested in another post to discuss a pre-nup and it just made me think.

 

I was wondering how the Chinese ladies would respond to a man asking for a Pre-Nup?

 

How would it be precieved from a cultural aspect? Would your SO consider it "Practical" or insultng? I realize it cannot effect the 864, but some have a lot more more to loose then $1,000.00 per month (although if that is for life it is still a bog expenditure).

 

A side question on the 864. OK, you end up with a divorce and are on the hook for the $1,000.00 per month for life, what happens when you die?? Upon death is your estate liable for the 864 or does the 864 liability end at your death?? I am not suggesting that death is a way to get out of the 864 (poor tax planning if you ask me), just curious.

 

While I ask these questions, my approach will be to keep my eyes open, both feet on the ground and keep in touch with reality. But when I marry it will be with the committment to make the marriage work and not to plan for a divorce (be careful what you plan for as you may get it!!!).

[AmericanRooster]

To me a pre-nup is planning to divorce before you even get married. It shows a lack of committment, etc. I think that the advise many give of keeping your feet on the ground and staying in touch with reality is the best advise. For those of us who have been divorced, we can look back and in retrospect saw problems while dating that we ignored and should not have.

 

Someone suggested in another post to discuss a pre-nup and it just made me think.

 

I was wondering how the Chinese ladies would respond to a man asking for a Pre-Nup?

 

I completely identify with your apprehensions about a pre-nup; although I don't agree that it shows a lack of commitment. I would not even say it is planning to divorce; I consider it as planning for the contingency... similar to liability insurance on your car or catastrophe insurance on your house.

 

The (sad) reality is that people who at one time loved each other very much get divorced, and these divorces are not always on mutually agreeable terms. Sometimes the divorce itself is something you have no control over... she could decide to bail physically or emotionally on the marriage... and will not work on fixing the problems you have together.

 

This decision is very personal, but I think it ultimately comes down to risk... how much are you willing to loose if you are wrong? If you think the courts would award significantly more and you have some nagging doubts, then this is some safety you can buy.

 

I do have several friends in China, and from what I can tell pre-nups are not uncommon there.

 

I don't have the answer, but hopefully can offer some thoughts that are useful. I'm writing these things as much for myself to consider as for you. One of my brothers is urging me to get a pre-nup before I marry.

 

Drop me a PM after you make your decision... I'd be interested to know what you decide.

Edited January 2, 2007 by AmericanRooster (see edit history)

[newman]

Just prior to my marriage, which is now in it's fourth year, I had an interesting conversation with my attorney about pre-nups. He told me that a pre-nup kinda goes against what you're getting married for, in otherwords love. After a long discussion he suggested that a pre-nup would protect my wife. I ask him what the hell did that mean. Since I have a sizeable retirement, which my wife would be entitled to at least half, my attorney stated this: if something happened to you, some not to nice attorney is going to get wind of this. He/she is going to approch your wife and tell her she is entitled to everything. By the time he/she gets done with your estate, he/she will drain it and your wife will get very little. I did the beneficiary route that specifies where things go.

[pkfops]

For her to leave her home country

just to marry you is a big endevour.

 

You should let her know that you'll see

to it she gets back home safely if things

don't work out.

 

You may want to plan extensive travel together in China;

this will help you to work as a team.

 

Also you must face the fact that she may not like the US and

would prefer to live in China, with or without you.

 

And you should face another fact that things will work out just fine.

 

Learn to keep you chi positive or you may defeat yourself before

you even get started.

 

Go to China and have fun.

[AmericanRooster]

Just prior to my marriage, which is now in it's fourth year, I had an interesting conversation with my attorney about pre-nups. He told me that a pre-nup kinda goes against what you're getting married for, in otherwords love. After a long discussion he suggested that a pre-nup would protect my wife. I ask him what the hell did that mean. Since I have a sizeable retirement, which my wife would be entitled to at least half, my attorney stated this: if something happened to you, some not to nice attorney is going to get wind of this. He/she is going to approch your wife and tell her she is entitled to everything. By the time he/she gets done with your estate, he/she will drain it and your wife will get very little. I did the beneficiary route that specifies where things go.

 

I'm not sure I get it; in this case, the pre-nuptual seems to be doing the same thing as a will. Why not just call it a will and appoint an executor?

[izus]

i understand your concerns completely having gone through my past issues as well....

i thought about one for a while before i married my sweet Chinese girl then told myself im going into this relationship believing in her not starting right out and not trusting her....

 

by deciding against it only brings more strength and backbone to your marriage and commitment and vice versa....

[tonado]

http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=5781

[phantom1949]

i understand your concerns completely having gone through my past issues as well....

i thought about one for a while before i married my sweet Chinese girl then told myself im going into this relationship believing in her not starting right out and not trusting her....

 

by deciding against it only brings more strength and backbone to your marriage and commitment and vice versa....

 

I have come to the same conclusion. I think the key is looking for the right woman and making a committment. My SO if things work out will be giving up up life in China, giving up her friends, her family and come to a strange country, different and hard language, new customs. She is giving up everything for the guy she is marrying.

 

Having had some experience in relationships (that's not bragging but I am not 21 anymore) in retrospect I say signs of problems in the women I married in the past (that is plural and not proud of it) but I ignored them.

 

Yes there are Chinese women who only want a green card and money, but if you looks for the signs of problems and don't ignore them, then the issue is to work for the best.

 

As for where to live, my SO and I already spoke about that. If we want to be together and she is not comfortable in the good old USA, then we could retire in China. I grew up in New York City but have no problems with the simplier life. That's assumming I can bring my Cruiser with me..........

 

A cross country, corss culture and cross language relationship means to be successful both need to make it work, and both need to be committed.

 

I am not trying to cause a big issue or raise red flags but by asking the questions, and hearing others responses, it helps me think things through.

 

My approach is and will be to watch for red flags but work for the best. Assume nothing and talk about everything (I will get extra batteries for the language translator). I prefer positive planning as opposed to negative planning,

 

I mean no disrespect to attorneys but I asked my attorney years ago why he does not disagree with me more and why is he so positive on deals we would work on. His response was that 80% of attorneys are deal breakers NOT deal makers. With his positive attitude we did very well.

 

I prefer to enter into s relationship with my eyes open and with a positive (we will make it work) attitude. I am already starting to learn Mandarin and will meet my SO at least 50% of the way (or as much as it takes to make it work).

 

Thanks Everyone!!!!!

[david_dawei]

seems that Americans live in s dream world when it comes to relationships and Chinese live in the practical world.

. . .

Is a Pre-Nup in the Chinese culture considered normal or an insult?

How would a Chinese Lady respond to a Pre-Nup?

Is this over-reaction to being protected?

 

well.. I do tend to think the USC is a little more in a dream world but when it comes to the financials I'll admit that USCs are sensitive on the prenup issue... suddenly we get practical ourselves and roll up our financial sleeves .

 

The problem I have with it in regards to chinese ladies is that some will be insulted since it questions the relationship; anything that questions the relationship is not going to be a good thing usually. It's talking divorce before the marriage has occurred .

 

I'm sure that some do go through with it and sign it, etc.. I do have a hard time believing that the other side of this sees it as a good thing or is happy to do it as if they thought of it first. Frankly, some will go through with it for the sake that it was asked to be done, IMO... I don't logically see this issue as something that the other side would normally bring up first or say, "dear... I want to give you a birthday present while your waiting for me to come to the US.. I'll give you a prenup"...

 

Anyway.. it's a personal decision that affects two people... good luck.

 

Lot's of comments were in this thread...

Prenup's Advice

[NewDay2006]

maybe you have a lot more to lose than most here, but isn't it all relative? Personally, I can't afford to lose attention, too costly!! A little money to a not rich person is relative to person who is rich losing some money. I would think in the event of a death, A Will will handle many things. I guess if you live in CA. THINGS get more complicated.

 

I do think that asking a chinese woman would be no different than asking a woman from the US for a pre-nup... it is a clear signal that you don't have confidence in the relationship... but in reality you are thinking about protecting yourself in case.....

 

I guess no one will have the answer here, you can only follow your heart and head on this one.

Edited January 3, 2007 by NewDay2006 (see edit history)

[david_dawei]

I do think that asking a chinese woman would be no different than asking a woman from the US for a pre-nup...

Only issue I have this this thought it that maybe it carries an assumption that the chinese lady even knows what a prenup is...and I'm not sure how mainstream an idea it is in china compared to the US.

 

Some SOs we see on this board, as an example, have limited or no english.. not sure I could figure out how to explain the concept to my SO who speaks no english and has no concept of what it is or why it's used..

[NewDay2006]

I do think that asking a chinese woman would be no different than asking a woman from the US for a pre-nup...

Only issue I have this this thought it that maybe it carries an assumption that the chinese lady even knows what a prenup is...and I'm not sure how mainstream an idea it is in china compared to the US.

 

Some SOs we see on this board, as an example, have limited or no english.. not sure I could figure out how to explain the concept to my SO who speaks no english and has no concept of what it is or why it's used..

Dave, maybe you are right, but wouldn't that be his job to tell her or make sure she understands? Otherwise isn't that starting off on the wrong foot?

[david_dawei]

I do think that asking a chinese woman would be no different than asking a woman from the US for a pre-nup...

Only issue I have this this thought it that maybe it carries an assumption that the chinese lady even knows what a prenup is...and I'm not sure how mainstream an idea it is in china compared to the US.

 

Some SOs we see on this board, as an example, have limited or no english.. not sure I could figure out how to explain the concept to my SO who speaks no english and has no concept of what it is or why it's used..

Dave, maybe you are right, but wouldn't that be his job to tell her or make sure she understands? Otherwise isn't that starting off on the wrong foot?

Telling her might be starting off on the wrong foot as well.. damned if you do and damned if you don't.