Leaving USA right after Entry

[SirLancelot]

New Travel Requirements Q&A

Will travelers from U.S. territories need to present a passport to enter the United States?

 

A: No. These territories are a part of the United States. U.S. citizens returning directly from a U.S. territory are not considered to have left the U.S. territory and do not need to present a passport. U.S. territories include the following: Guam, Puerto Rico, the U.S. Virgin Islands, American Samoa, Swains Island and the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands

 

 

 

Jim, thanks for finding that.

 

Now, if a USC is returning from these US territories and are NOT required to present a passport upon their return to the Continental US, then this leads me to believe that the setup is exactly the same as any domestic airport and these flights are considered domestic and not international. If a USC is not required to present a passport then that must mean they do not check for passports at all. Otherwise how would they know who is a USC and who is not, as the USC is not required to have his or her passport for these trips. This leads me to believe that they won't be asking any other nationals to present their passports as well--how can they prove these other nationals are not USCs? This leads me to believe that a new Chinese immigrant or, non-immigrant in the case of a K-1 visa, should be able to visit any of these US territories without any additional visas. These territories, for the purpose of traveling, would be exactly like any other US states. Why couldn't a new Chinese immigrant simply claim to be a USC, thus not needing to show his or her passport, if confronted?

 

Anyone have any first hand info regarding traveling to any of these territories? Did you witness any checking of passports upon disembarking the plane and entering the airport?

[Randy W]

New Travel Requirements Q&A

Will travelers from U.S. territories need to present a passport to enter the United States?

 

A: No. These territories are a part of the United States. U.S. citizens returning directly from a U.S. territory are not considered to have left the U.S. territory and do not need to present a passport. U.S. territories include the following: Guam, Puerto Rico, the U.S. Virgin Islands, American Samoa, Swains Island and the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands

 

 

 

Jim, thanks for finding that.

 

Now, if a USC is returning from these US territories and are NOT required to present a passport upon their return to the Continental US, then this leads me to believe that the setup is exactly the same as any domestic airport and these flights are considered domestic and not international. If a USC is not required to present a passport then that must mean they do not check for passports at all. Otherwise how would they know who is a USC and who is not, as the USC is not required to have his or her passport for these trips. This leads me to believe that they won't be asking any other nationals to present their passports as well--how can they prove these other nationals are not USCs? This leads me to believe that a new Chinese immigrant or, non-immigrant in the case of a K-1 visa, should be able to visit any of these US territories without any additional visas. These territories, for the purpose of traveling, would be exactly like any other US states. Why couldn't a new Chinese immigrant simply claim to be a USC, thus not needing to show his or her passport, if confronted?

 

Anyone have any first hand info regarding traveling to any of these territories? Did you witness any checking of passports upon disembarking the plane and entering the airport?

 

 

Domestic flights are domestic flights. Anyone on them has ALREADY gained admission to the United States. No passports are checked.

 

On International flights to any US Territory (whether admitted to the union or not) passports are checked.

 

It is the responsibility of the airlines and airports (as at any domestic airport) to keep the domestic and international traffic separate.

[SirLancelot]

 

New Travel Requirements Q&A

Will travelers from U.S. territories need to present a passport to enter the United States?

 

A: No. These territories are a part of the United States. U.S. citizens returning directly from a U.S. territory are not considered to have left the U.S. territory and do not need to present a passport. U.S. territories include the following: Guam, Puerto Rico, the U.S. Virgin Islands, American Samoa, Swains Island and the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands

 

Domestic flights are domestic flights. Anyone on them has ALREADY gained admission to the United States. No passports are checked.

 

On International flights to any US Territory (whether admitted to the union or not) passports are checked.

 

It is the responsibility of the airlines and airports (as at any domestic airport) to keep the domestic and international traffic separate.

 

I presume you're referring to International flights from another country--not Continental USA--to US territories needing passport check, correct?

 

In our discussion here, I am trying to confirm that flights from the Continental USA to US territories are considered domestic flights and NOT international fights, like flights to Hawaii. Thus the lack of requirement to present a passport for USC.

 

If that is the case, where flights to US territories from the Continental USA are indeed considered domestic, then no one will be required to present a passport--not even a Chinese national. A state ID or driver's license would suffice as photo ID for the airport.

[Randy W]

The situation is the same (in terms of illegal immigration) as if an illegal alien took a plane from Brownsville to another part of the US. Anyone who travels near the US border (including US territories) should carry adequate identification for their own particular set of circumstances.

 

I know the Border Patrol watches roads going into the interior, but I don't know who (if anyone) would watch the domestic terminals.

 

We have discussed going through the (road) border checkpoints before, and I believe the advice was to be wary of this before getting the greencard (I don't remember the particulars).

 

But I think documentation as far as legal presence is advisable.

 

Maybe someone will have a specific experience they can relate.

[LeeFisher3]

The debate concerning traveling to the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico for US Citizens is not in question. The question I raised was for K-1 visa holders.

 

Puerto Rico Federal Affairs Administration (PRFAA)

Here is a key phrase that is not clarified by Puerto Rico or the State Department:

Given Puerto Rico¡¯s relationship to the U.S., traveling to and from Puerto Rico is much like traveling between the 50 states.

Yes, I have traveled to the US VI (San Juan) a number of times and some form of proof of US Citizenship was required for departure to the US. I seem to recall on each of my trips everyone departing at the airport was required to prove they were US citizens or go through immigration at the San Juan airport and those who did not have a US passport, but only a birth certificate were processed. This was pre 9/11/2001.

 

As a K-1 visa is a single entry Visa to the US you need to verify that returning from a territory of the US is the same thing as traveling within the US or if this is considered a second entry to the US for a K-1 visa holder. Remember it is not clear if a K-1 visa holder's status is that of a resident alien as they have not received Legal Permanent Residency until they receive an I-551 stamp or green card, also Chinese citizens without Resident status are required to have a visa. (A K-3 visa holder might not be considered to have Resident status as well)

Resident aliens residing in the U.S. traveling to the Commonwealth are required to have a valid passport and an appropriate U.S. visa, if required by the U.S. State Department.*

 

I recall reading on VJ that someone had an issue going to the US VI on a K-1 visa and only after a good bit of discussion was the K-1 visa holder allowed to return to the US. It sounded like only by the good will of a USCIS officer was the K-1 visa holder allowed to return to the US but that could just have been my read of the post.

Edited November 30, 2006 by LeeFisher3 (see edit history)

[warpedbored]

All in all it sounds too risky to me. I would chose an american destination to avoid complications. Hawaii is very nice this time of year.

[lostinblue]

All in all it sounds too risky to me. I would chose an american destination to avoid complications. Hawaii is very nice this time of year.

Why risk a denial at customs. You are at the stage where a slight slip up could throw away every thing . I can see an AP if a family member is on their deathbed other than that STAY within the US borders. you have walked through hell to get her here . now work on keeping her here. You have all of the United States to choose from .She has not seen any of it. Some people caution against traveling close to the mexican border as it may be a risk of being subjected to questioning by the border patrol. Until that green card is in hand I would not leave the United States. If she is sent back I think it could take years before she can return.If you still feel the need PLEASE go talk to a good immigration lawyer so you understand the law clearly.It would not cost much for this one question.

Edited November 30, 2006 by lostinblue (see edit history)

[SinoTexas]

The debate concerning traveling to the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico for US Citizens is not in question. The question I raised was for K-1 visa holders.

 

Puerto Rico Federal Affairs Administration (PRFAA)

Here is a key phrase that is not clarified by Puerto Rico or the State Department:

Given Puerto Rico¡¯s relationship to the U.S., traveling to and from Puerto Rico is much like traveling between the 50 states.

Yes, I have traveled to the US VI (San Juan) a number of times and some form of proof of US Citizenship was required for departure to the US. I seem to recall on each of my trips everyone departing at the airport was required to prove they were US citizens or go through immigration at the San Juan airport and those who did not have a US passport, but only a birth certificate were processed. This was pre 9/11/2001.

 

As a K-1 visa is a single entry Visa to the US you need to verify that returning from a territory of the US is the same thing as traveling within the US or if this is considered a second entry to the US for a K-1 visa holder. Remember it is not clear if a K-1 visa holder's status is that of a resident alien as they have not received Legal Permanent Residency until they receive an I-551 stamp or green card, also Chinese citizens without Resident status are required to have a visa. (A K-3 visa holder might not be considered to have Resident status as well)

Resident aliens residing in the U.S. traveling to the Commonwealth are required to have a valid passport and an appropriate U.S. visa, if required by the U.S. State Department.*

 

I recall reading on VJ that someone had an issue going to the US VI on a K-1 visa and only after a good bit of discussion was the K-1 visa holder allowed to return to the US. It sounded like only by the good will of a USCIS officer was the K-1 visa holder allowed to return to the US but that could just have been my read of the post.

 

 

Having done the Guam to US mainland trip for ten years (1980 - 1990) I was pretty familiar with the routine. When entering a US Territory on a flight DIRECTLY from the US mainland, you were exempt from US Immigration, however, you did have to go through US Customs to have your bags checked. They were more interested in inspecting for prohibited items. No passports were checked by Immigration, so if you were a non-USC, on that direct flight, then there wasn't a problem.

 

Lee, San Juan is in Puerto Rico and Puerto Rico is not part of the US Virgin Islands. Each hastheir own governor and legislature.

 

As aye,

 

Jim

[agape]

Wow!

 

Great advice everyone! Thank you so much. With you advice, I think I am going to go to the US Virgin Islands instead. It seems MUCH easier (no worries about Visas and things). You are right, it is a better idea to keep in the USA.

 

And just to confirm, with the I-551 stamp in her passport (we did DCF), we can also re-enter from the Virgin Islands (even if we end up going through immigration). She is not a F-1 Visa holder.

 

On a side note, even without her green card, this I-551 stamp shows she is a permanent resident - right? So if there is an emergency and she has to go home, she can still come back into the USA, right?

[LeeFisher3]

The debate concerning traveling to the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico for US Citizens is not in question. The question I raised was for K-1 visa holders.

 

Puerto Rico Federal Affairs Administration (PRFAA)

Here is a key phrase that is not clarified by Puerto Rico or the State Department:

Given Puerto Rico¡¯s relationship to the U.S., traveling to and from Puerto Rico is much like traveling between the 50 states.

Yes, I have traveled to the US VI (San Juan) a number of times and some form of proof of US Citizenship was required for departure to the US. I seem to recall on each of my trips everyone departing at the airport was required to prove they were US citizens or go through immigration at the San Juan airport and those who did not have a US passport, but only a birth certificate were processed. This was pre 9/11/2001.

 

As a K-1 visa is a single entry Visa to the US you need to verify that returning from a territory of the US is the same thing as traveling within the US or if this is considered a second entry to the US for a K-1 visa holder. Remember it is not clear if a K-1 visa holder's status is that of a resident alien as they have not received Legal Permanent Residency until they receive an I-551 stamp or green card, also Chinese citizens without Resident status are required to have a visa. (A K-3 visa holder might not be considered to have Resident status as well)

Resident aliens residing in the U.S. traveling to the Commonwealth are required to have a valid passport and an appropriate U.S. visa, if required by the U.S. State Department.*

 

I recall reading on VJ that someone had an issue going to the US VI on a K-1 visa and only after a good bit of discussion was the K-1 visa holder allowed to return to the US. It sounded like only by the good will of a USCIS officer was the K-1 visa holder allowed to return to the US but that could just have been my read of the post.

 

 

Having done the Guam to US mainland trip for ten years (1980 - 1990) I was pretty familiar with the routine. When entering a US Territory on a flight DIRECTLY from the US mainland, you were exempt from US Immigration, however, you did have to go through US Customs to have your bags checked. They were more interested in inspecting for prohibited items. No passports were checked by Immigration, so if you were a non-USC, on that direct flight, then there wasn't a problem.

 

Lee, San Juan is in Puerto Rico and Puerto Rico is not part of the US Virgin Islands. Each has their own governor and legislature.

 

As aye,

 

Jim

A US Territory is a US Territory and entering from the US has not been a problem, it is the check when you return to the US that's the issue here.

USVI Before you visit

 

Passports for U.S. Citizens are not required for the U.S. Virgin Islands, but you must be prepared to show evidence of citizenship upon leaving (such as a birth certificate and photo ID). Citizens of countries other than the U.S. should follow U.S. travel regulations. Travel outside the U.S. Virgin Islands requires a birth certificate or valid passport. Health certificates are not required if you're entering from the U.S. or Puerto Rico; citizens entering from other countries should follow the same guidelines as for the mainland U.S.

 

Also, many of the flights to the USVI are through San Juan.

 

What is so hard about someone expressing concern that someone might have a problem with a K-1 visa holder getting stuck in a bad situation and suggesting people check it out to be 100% sure they are not stuck outside of the US?

 

You have told about how you a US Citizen never had any problem, you have never tried it with a K-1 visa holder who has already entered the US.

[Signal]

All in all it sounds too risky to me. I would chose an american destination to avoid complications. Hawaii is very nice this time of year.

Why risk a denial at customs. You are at the stage where a slight slip up could throw away every thing . I can see an AP if a family member is on their deathbed other than that STAY within the US borders. you have walked through hell to get her here . now work on keeping her here. You have all of the United States to choose from .She has not seen any of it. Some people caution against traveling close to the mexican border as it may be a risk of being subjected to questioning by the border patrol. Until that green card is in hand I would not leave the United States. If she is sent back I think it could take years before she can return.If you still feel the need PLEASE go talk to a good immigration lawyer so you understand the law clearly.It would not cost much for this one question.

 

After reading all of the posts, this just about sums up my feelings EXACTLY!... Why put so much at risk just for this one trip?...Yes a honeymoon is a special time...But why risk ruining it when you can have a great vacation anywhere in the US where you don't have to stress one bit about visa complications!...As said above, your SO has not seen ANY of the US so there's plenty to see!...Remember your honeymoon is not about where you are, it is about the love you two have for each other!...

 

Good Luck And Have Fun!!!

 

[Rakkasan]

Keep in mind that the rules for re-entry into the U.S. from Canada, Mexico and Bermuda will change January 23, 2008, even for U.S. Citizens. Even U.S. citizens will need a paasport fro re-entry after that date. I am not sure how the rules for non-citizens will change but I would get written clarification from immigration before leaving.

 

I agree that if you must go island hopping a trip to the U.S. VI would be a much better choice for your honeymoon.

 

 

NEWS RELEASE!!!

 

US: Passports needed for nearly all air travelers

 

 

Nearly all air travelers entering the US will be required to show passports beginning Jan. 23, including returning Americans and people from Canada and other nations in the Western Hemisphere.

The date was disclosed Tuesday by Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff in an interview with The Associated Press. The Homeland Security Department plans to announce the change on Wednesday.

 

Until now, the department had not set a specific date for instituting the passport requirement for air travelers, though the start had been expected to be around the beginning of the year. Setting the date on Jan. 23 pushes the start past the holiday season.

 

The requirement marks a change for Americans, Canadians, Bermudans and some Mexicans.

 

Currently, US citizens returning from other countries in the hemisphere are not required to present passports but must show other proof of citizenship such as driver's licenses or birth certificates.

 

Visitors from most countries in the hemisphere are required to show passports. However, people from Canada, Bermuda - and those from Mexico who enter the U.S. frequently and have special border-crossing cards - have been allowed to use other forms of identification, including driver's licenses.

 

"Right now, there are 8,000 different state and local entities in the US issuing birth certificates and driver's licenses," Chertoff said. Having to distinguish phony from real in so many different documents "puts an enormous burden on our Customs and Border inspectors," he said.

 

In a few cases, other documents still may be used for air entry into the US by some frequent travelers between the US and Canada, members of the American military on official business and some US merchant mariners.

 

Under a separate program, Homeland Security plans to require all travelers, including Americans, entering the US by land or sea to show a passport or an alternative security identification card starting as early as January 2008.

 

The Homeland Security Department estimates that about one in four Americans has a passport. Some people have balked at the $97 price tag.

 

The Sept. 11 Commission said in its report, "For terrorists, travel documents are as important as weapons."

 

The commission recommended strengthening security of travel documents. A 2004 law passed by Congress mandated the change to require passports as the only acceptable travel document, with few exceptions, but the exact date had been in question.

 

Canadian officials and some members of Congress from border states have expressed concern that the changes could interfere with travel and commerce.

 

Chertoff said his agency's data revealed that in September 2006, 90 percent of passengers leaving from Canadian airports had passports. The department estimated that 69 percent of US travelers to Canada, 58 percent of US travelers to Mexico, and 75 percent of US travelers to the Caribbean hold passports.

 

"Could James Bond and Q come up with a fake passport" that could fool inspectors? Chertoff asked, referring to the fictional British spy and his espionage agency's technical genius. Of course, he replied, "Nothing is completely perfect."

 

Still, he said that with new technology, it is increasingly difficult to forge passports, and having just one document to scrutinize should make inspection easier for both inspectors and travelers.

 

 

Good luck.

 

Post Script: You gotta love bureaucrats and their love of campaign funding from special interests.

 

The Sept. 11 Commission said in its report, "For terrorists, travel documents are as important as weapons."

 

The commission recommended strengthening security of travel documents. A 2004 law passed by Congress mandated the change to require passports as the only acceptable travel document, with few exceptions, but the exact date had been in question.

 

Why is is so hard for our government to make a simple straight forward decision. Require everyone to have a passport period. NO EXCEPTIONS. It is the exceptions that always cause confusion for us and the workers at the POE. OK....That is the end of my rant, this time.

Edited December 1, 2006 by Rakkasan (see edit history)

[SinoTexas]

Nothing wrong at all Lee, nothing wrong at all That's what this site is all about, asking questions. I was just pointing out that Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands are two separate territories. There ARE differences in US Territories such and between Guam and the CNMI (Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands), especially on immigration issues, but I'll save that discussion

 

By the way Lee, my ex-wife is from Scotland and we married during the ten years I was with the NPS on Guam. We went through the whole fiancee, marriage, eventual green card process while I/we were on Guam. We made numerous trips traveling back and forth from Guam to the US Mainland, some on direct flights via Honolulu and others via Tokyo or Seoul.

 

As aye,

 

Jim

[pkfops]

While on your honeymoon, it's not a good

idea to leave after entry.

 

A glass of champagne and maybe a ciggarette

before re-entry should be OK.

[SirLancelot]

What is so hard about someone expressing concern that someone might have a problem with a K-1 visa holder getting stuck in a bad situation and suggesting people check it out to be 100% sure they are not stuck outside of the US?

 

Nothing wrong with this at all. In fact, that is what I'm trying to assertain. I'm trying to confirm exactly what happens when someone returns to the Continental US from a US territory. If the flights are considered domestic and none one--both USC and foreign nationals--has to go through immigrations, then it's just like any domestic flight within the Continental USA and a K-1 visa holder should be fine. If that is NOT the case, then a K-1 holder will have some worrying to do. But so far, it sounds like these flights are considered to be domestic flights and there's no immigrations involved for flights between the Continental US and US territories, so a K-1 visa holder shouldn't have any problems.

 

I'm trying to get details from people who have indeed been to these US territories recently. Please post you experiences.