I am in Guz, INTERVIEW tomorrow morning.

[Michael and Manyun]

mama bear...wishing you a speedy overcome.

 

paula...sorry to hear that things are being dragged out even longer.

[SirLancelot]

\ of the CCP cases as instructed by the FAM.

 

The US government in general could give a rats ass if someone was a member of the CCP because they know it is the same thing as being a member of the AFL-CIO in the US in the majority of the cases and in the others people would not be seeking a visa to immigrate. You are either a member or you don't work which is the same as in the US.

 

 

Lee, I'm not going to argue with you.

 

I'm only going to say that true party membership is extremely exclusive. It certainly isn't the case that all Chinese people are part of the party. I was going to say only 10% of the population get party membership but Wikipedia claims it's only 5%. Up to you to believe in Wikipedia or not, but I know at most 10% gain access to party membership. The ones who do obtain membership work hard to get membership. They don't give it up easily. And indeed they are vetted by other party members before being accepted. You don't just get party membership if you don't believe in the ideology.

 

Now would it be fair to suggest that over a period of time that some who originally believed in the party's ideology become dis-enchanted and dis-illusioned? Of course. There are members who do end up not believing and even renouncing their membership, but the system is pretty exclusive. It is NOTHING like you describe. People don't enter and exit out of the party like we register for being Republican or Democrat. And NOT everyone thinks communism--the economic system--is bad. Yes, SmilingAsia hates the communists and had horrible experiences with the Cultural Revolution but I've equally personally spoken to Chinese taxi drivers who wished for the days of Mao. They say the current system is so unequal. The old days it was much more equal in terms of personal income--according to what they told me. They wanted the old days back.

 

And I disagree that the US government doesn't give a rats ass about party membership. Indeed they do. They even ask for this information again when a petitioner naturalizes. And you can be denied naturalization based on party membership.

 

The fact that this person's visa petition got stuck reaffirms my point that they care a rats ass about party memberhsip.

 

As a student of philosophy and economics, I frankly enjoy marxism and communism, but the US government absolutely loathes communists. That is a given fact. Even though a US citizen can believe in communism--we in fact have a Communists Party in the US--but a communist from another country is not allowed to naturalize unless he or she has given up (renounced) the party. That has been codified in statue. Frankly I can't believe it. They allow a USC to believe in communism and to be a member of the Communist Party of the USA, but a fellow communist from another country can't become a US citizen unless and until he or she renounces membership. That is a HUGE double standard, and yet it clearly exists in statue.

[LeeFisher3]

\ of the CCP cases as instructed by the FAM.

 

The US government in general could give a rats ass if someone was a member of the CCP because they know it is the same thing as being a member of the AFL-CIO in the US in the majority of the cases and in the others people would not be seeking a visa to immigrate. You are either a member or you don't work which is the same as in the US.

 

 

Lee, I'm not going to argue with you.

Then don't, but you owe the member you slighted an appology and will hear this from me until you do or the administration of CFL tells me to quit demanding it.

 

FYI, school teachers are required to join to be able to teach in the better schools or futher their career. One members wife was told, when she was a child, that if she didn't join her mother would be killed. This came a few weeks after her father was executed during the cultual revolution.

[papa bear]

\ of the CCP cases as instructed by the FAM.

 

The US government in general could give a rats ass if someone was a member of the CCP because they know it is the same thing as being a member of the AFL-CIO in the US in the majority of the cases and in the others people would not be seeking a visa to immigrate. You are either a member or you don't work which is the same as in the US.

 

 

Lee, I'm not going to argue with you.

Then don't, but you owe the member you slighted an appology and will hear this from me until you do or the administration of CFL tells me to quit demanding it.

 

FYI, school teachers are required to join to be able to teach in the better schools or futher their career. One members wife was told, when she was a child, that if she didn't join her mother would be killed. This came a few weeks after her father was executed during the cultual revolution.

 

Yes Mama Bear is required to be a member if she is going to continue teaching, this whole process stinks.

 

We were not suprised when this happened so we are mentaly prepared for it but it still sucks.

 

I don't understand why a lot of K1's get approved when they are members of the CCP but CR1"s are rejected, it doesn't make sence and it's the part that really pisses me off.

 

But it's all good we just have to wait a little longer, jump through a few more hoops, it will all come together in the end.

 

I am going back to China around the 1st of december so we will still be together, it will just be a little more costly and a little less convienient, but we will be together and that is the important thing.

 

And Mama Bear could care less about politics, not all members really bealive in the party line, the only reason she joined in the first place was to keep her job, if she was a dyed in the wool Maoist we never would have been able to get along long enough to get to know each other much less get married.

 

From my personal experience most rank and file members could care less about communisum and to them it isn't much different than the AFL-CIO as Lee has suggested but unfortunatly there are a few wanna be Hugo Chavezs and Kim Jung Ills that none of us would want allowed in the country, now we are caught in the unfortunate position of having to wait for the US government to find out what I and everybody here that has met my wife already know, THAT SHE IS AN ANGEL!

 

I really don't have a problem with the extra background check, what I have a problem with is the way they do the whole process.

 

China has been a Communist country for a while now and they haven't tried to keep it a secret, why isn't the issue of CCP membership delt with in the begenning of the process so when u get to the interview that problem is out of the way, applicants that were deemed entirely inelegable wouldn't get an interview in the first place opening slots for those that only had to prove their reason application in the first place.

 

I am confident they will find nothing in Mama Bear's background that would prevent her from getting her visa.

 

In the end it will work in our favor because this will delay it long enough that when she does get her visa she will get a 10 year green card and we can avoid all that extra paper work, there is a bright side to this.

 

Almost everybody here has been very helpfull and or supportive, I know that if we need advice we can get it here, this is nothing to freak out over no matter what the outcome is.

 

We will be together in the U.S. or China it really doesn't matter and there are other countries we could live in as well, hell we might be better off looking for some obscure little backwoods country that nobody has ever heard of and doesn't care about giving them no reason to blow up, overrun, overthrow or hate them.

 

It will all work out in the end.

Edited November 2, 2006 by papa bear (see edit history)

[SirLancelot]

 

Yes Mama Bear is required to be a member if she is going to continue teaching, this whole process stinks.

We were not suprised when this happened so we are mentaly prepared for it but it still sucks.

I don't understand why a lot of K1's get approved when they are members of the CCP but CR1"s are rejected, it doesn't make sence.

But it's all good we just have to wait a little longer, jump through a few more hoops, it will all come together in the end.

I am going back to China around the 1st of december so we will still be together, it will just be a little more costly and a little less convienient, but we will be together and that is the important thing.

 

All the best to You and Mama Bear. I hope for your speedy overcome.

 

I personally do NOT believe the US government should delay or deny immigrants who are or may have been communist members--as any USC in the States can choose to be a communist party member--but the US government obviously has a different stance.

 

Have a great trip to China.

[sweattrl1]

The US government very much cares whether an applicant is or was a member of the CCP. They will do extensive checking to make sure the history of the applicant.

 

It's unfortunate for your personal situation, but to think that it's no big deal to be in or have been in CCP when trying to immigrate to the US is extremely naive.

 

And I'm sorry to disagree with so many of you, but I think the VO did his or her job properly. If it were the case of Al Qieda, would we accept that the VO just forgot to ask? or would we have rather he forgot in the beginning but remembered before the applicant left? I think it was better for the VO to remember to ask about it, even though he or she might have forgotten in the beginning of the interview.

 

And it really doesn't matter. Even if she left the interview, it still takes 2 days to get the VISA. Anytime before the issurance of the visa, they could have denied her still. So she wouldn't have gotten away with it, in my opinion. She would have had a bigger shock when she went to pick up her visa and she was told it has been revoked.

The US government employee's in GZ, if doing their job, would approve the majority of the CCP cases as instructed by the FAM.

 

The US government in general could give a rats ass if someone was a member of the CCP because they know it is the same thing as being a member of the AFL-CIO in the US in the majority of the cases and in the others people would not be seeking a visa to immigrate. You are either a member or you don't work which is the same as in the US. It has little to do with political ideology, but someone in GZ has forgotten that part and have neglected to follow their own rules.

 

Making a comparison between Al Qieda and these two cases is absurd, remember this issue was alive and well long before the US granted visa's to the Al Qieda operatives who gave us 9/11.

 

Personally I feel that singling out one member specifically with your reply was just plain cruel and you should be ashamed and APOLOGIZE.

i 100% agree with you Lee , well said

[chilton747]

The US government very much cares whether an applicant is or was a member of the CCP. They will do extensive checking to make sure the history of the applicant.

 

It's unfortunate for your personal situation, but to think that it's no big deal to be in or have been in CCP when trying to immigrate to the US is extremely naive.

 

And I'm sorry to disagree with so many of you, but I think the VO did his or her job properly. If it were the case of Al Qieda, would we accept that the VO just forgot to ask? or would we have rather he forgot in the beginning but remembered before the applicant left? I think it was better for the VO to remember to ask about it, even though he or she might have forgotten in the beginning of the interview.

 

And it really doesn't matter. Even if she left the interview, it still takes 2 days to get the VISA. Anytime before the issurance of the visa, they could have denied her still. So she wouldn't have gotten away with it, in my opinion. She would have had a bigger shock when she went to pick up her visa and she was told it has been revoked.

The US government employee's in GZ, if doing their job, would approve the majority of the CCP cases as instructed by the FAM.

 

The US government in general could give a rats ass if someone was a member of the CCP because they know it is the same thing as being a member of the AFL-CIO in the US in the majority of the cases and in the others people would not be seeking a visa to immigrate. You are either a member or you don't work which is the same as in the US. It has little to do with political ideology, but someone in GZ has forgotten that part and have neglected to follow their own rules.

 

Making a comparison between Al Qieda and these two cases is absurd, remember this issue was alive and well long before the US granted visa's to the Al Qieda operatives who gave us 9/11.

 

Personally I feel that singling out one member specifically with your reply was just plain cruel and you should be ashamed and APOLOGIZE.

i 100% agree with you Lee , well said

 

 

I too agree 100% with you Lee.

[Joanne]

I am sorry to hear about the blue slip. I am also sorry that I didn't come here early enough to give you good wishes. I agree with smilingasia, you will overcome this setback.

 

Take care!

[warpedbored]

Yajie I am so sorry to hear the bad news. You have always been one of my favorite members here and I know from our chats that you are truly a sweet kind gentle soul who would never harm anyone.

There are waivers for CCP members because it it s a fact that many people are forced to join the party if they want to get a job in their particular field. Teaching is one of those fields.

Sir Lancelot I am not going to get into the apology debate but I do feel you were a little harsh on her whether your stance is correct or not. Not nice to kick someone when they are down.

 

Yajie and Dan, hang in there. Perhaps you will be lucky and your overcome will come swiftly. Good luck my friends. I sincerely mean that.

[Joanne]

Nobody is required to join communist party except in very few professions, teaching is not one of them.

 

People who would like to advance or being promoted faster in a government job or teaching, have better chance if they join the communist party.

 

Communist party members are not evil. Rather opposite to this, they are usually nice, upright and hard working, and have self-respect and descipline.

 

Mama bear was young when she joined. The opportunity of becoming a party member might be view simply as an honor to her. She should not be punished for being a party member.

[Joanne]

What SirLancelot said about communist party makes sense. I wish that we are discussion this issue away from mama bear and papa bear's case.

 

I am sorry mama bear and papa bear. Mama bear, you should not feel ashamed of being a party member. (I could have become one if I was not such an over-thinker when I was young.) You should not feel bad that you have to renounce the member status in order to join your husband.

[SirLancelot]

 

Sir Lancelot I am not going to get into the apology debate but I do feel you were a little harsh on her whether your stance is correct or not. Not nice to kick someone when they are down.

 

 

 

I went back and took a look at my post numerous times and I still can't see why I need to apologize? Or that I even kicked someone when they're down.

 

I even said "It's unfortunate for your personal situation". If I wanted to kick someone when they're down, I would have said "It serves you right" or "See, you should have done what was advised to you". I actually empathize with Paula. I don't see why I should apologize for anything I said.

 

In fact, I must say that Lee is doing a tremendous disservice to potential applicants on here by downplaying how GUZ views CCP membership. I think he is wrong on this. Completely wrong. It's posts like his which give others a false sense of security about CCP membership not having any impact on a petition. I will NOT back down on this. Lee needs to stop doing that.

 

Some of the reactions to my post has been completely overblown. I don't even know why Lee is being so indignant here. My original post wasn't even addressed to him. If Paula actually feels slighted by my post then I will say sorry to her, but unless and until I hear Paula say such, I will leave things as is. Lee is NOT the boss of me and I certainly won't acquiesce to his dictates.

 

Unless he thinks facism is cool with me, his method of confronting me is completely out of line.

 

I demand an apology from Lee for airing this out in public. Why didn't he PM me to address his concerns?

[SirLancelot]

Nobody is required to join communist party except in very few professions, teaching is not one of them.

 

People who would like to advance or being promoted faster in a government job or teaching, have better chance if they join the communist party.

 

Communist party members are not evil. Rather opposite to this, they are usually nice, upright and hard working, and have self-respect and descipline.

 

Mama bear was young when she joined. The opportunity of becoming a party member might be view simply as an honor to her. She should not be punished for being a party member.

 

Joanne, thank you for being brave enough to say this.

 

1) Rarely are people required to join the party. It's infact a very exclusive membership. People covet it!

 

2) Communists are NOT evil.

 

I'm glad you're sayings this Joanne. They won't listen to me on this, but I hope they'll listen to you.

Edited November 2, 2006 by SirLancelot (see edit history)

[FREEASABIRD]

I am a Christian, so I am going to say this: "Mama Bear, hang in there. I am praying for you, and I believe that things will be moving smoothly for you! GOOD LUCK! GOD BLESS MAMA BEAR!

 

KEEP YOUR CHIN UP!! DON'T GIVE UP!

[mama bear]

I am back home, I am fine, thanks for your posts folks, I didn't be wet in these days, I even smiled and said 'THANKS YOU ' to the VO who gave me blue,but after read all your post, I cannot help myself crying.

every body here is very kind to me, thank you all folks again.

The truth is CCP membership is a very important issue in US government eyes, at least by my statisticon 001, till now still no any CR1/IR1 can over come it.I am not sure how about on CFL, but by what I have read, only those who quit more than 5 years can overcome it.

I will post later about the deatils, now we are very hungry, will take my daughter for a big dinner.

I will never give up, life will continue, thank you all again, CFLers !