Sleeping With The Enemy

[frank1538]

From most to least immoral behavior exibited in this instance.

 

Sailor, Mary, John, business man, old man, Bob.

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Ah hell, let's stir the pudding.

 

Completely reversing the order, from most moral to least:

 

Sailor - He was to only one to help. Besides, what was a loveless physical act compared to a woman's happiness?

 

Mary - She put the well being of John above all else.

 

John - He stuck it out with Mary for as long as he could, but the guilt he felt from not trying to find Mary made him realize that the marriage wouldn't last. Better to call it off now.

 

Business man - Sometimes the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one. He had his employees to take care of.

 

Old man - He could have used his wisdom rather than his strength or lack thereof to help, but he didn't bother to lift a finger.

 

Bob - He caught Mary on the rebound and married her for all the wrong reasons. Both their lives would be unhappy.

 

The opinions expressed here do not necessarily represent those of the poster.

[gnat]

The opinions expressed here do not necessarily represent those of the poster.

 

 

 

 

1 Bob - selfless attributes (?). He may have perceived qualities in Mary that need polishing. They would both benefit.

 

2 Mary – moment(s) of weakness are learning curves - not total personality or moral makeup. She should have waited to be rescued by John – it was his responsibility not Mary’s. Does not seem Mary had “track record” of faulty character.

 

3 Old man – selfish excuses; maybe he could not make the trip himself. He could have offered with others to help Mary

 

4 Businessman - has a materialistic view of life. “Things” are more important than feelings of those in dire need(s). He had the means to assist.

 

5 John - lacked empathy, understanding, reasonableness, compassion. Having become engaged to Mary, he should known what her values were already. True, trust was violated, but were Mary other qualities not redeeming enough? [He may have been “setting” her up for a fall anyway by bringing his best friend along – three is an odd number].

 

6 Sailor – a predator; he took advantage of the weak and wounded

 

......etc

 

 

Cheers,

 

gnat

[Dennis143]

Good post, thanks for coming out of the shadows and finally joining us Gnat.

[Dennis143]

OK Dan, let's hear it. Please tell us what the majority of the Chinese classes came up with their 'certain rating order'. Of course, I cannot believe that their moral rating is some how supposed to supercede ours. I am just curious to learn of, or if, their's are different.

[Joanne]

The opinions expressed here do not necessarily represent those of the poster.

 

 

 

 

1 Bob - selfless attributes (?). He may have perceived qualities in Mary that need polishing. They would both benefit.

 

2 Mary ?moment(s) of weakness are learning curves - not total personality or moral makeup. She should have waited to be rescued by John ?it was his responsibility not Mary’s. Does not seem Mary had “track record?of faulty character.

 

3 Old man ?selfish excuses; maybe he could not make the trip himself. He could have offered with others to help Mary

 

4 Businessman - has a materialistic view of life. “Things?are more important than feelings of those in dire need(s). He had the means to assist.

 

5 John - lacked empathy, understanding, reasonableness, compassion. Having become engaged to Mary, he should known what her values were already. True, trust was violated, but were Mary other qualities not redeeming enough? [He may have been “setting?her up for a fall anyway by bringing his best friend along ?three is an odd number].

 

6 Sailor ?a predator; he took advantage of the weak and wounded

 

......etc 

 

 

Cheers,

 

gnat

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I like this order. Could not come up with better explanation, so borrowed gnat's.

[ameriken]

1) Mary was the most moral. She faltered but admitted it with remorse, and her intentions were her fiance, not the sailor.

2) The old man...assuming he is telling the truth about his age and condition, he perhaps really could not help, especially after this ordeal.

3) Businessman. While he did not provide help, he had obligations of his own, and since no one's life was in danger, he went back to business. He did not take advantage of Mary.

4) John, while he should have trusted and understood her, he still felt understandably slighted by her action.

5) Bob is next to the last in morality, he did not offer any help to Mary when she needed to see John, but he was there when she was readily available, possibly took advantage of a woman in her weakness when he could have helped save the relationship.

6) Sailor is the least moral, for knowingly taking full advantage of a woman in her weakness, he could have helped her without the sex.

 

I had trouble with the last two. It is possible that Bob is the least moral for doing nothing at all to really help the situation, whereas the sailor was at least straightforward, and yet was the only one who helped.

Edited June 15, 2006 by ameriken (see edit history)

[Dennis143]

1) Mary was the most moral. She faltered but admitted it with remorse, and her intentions were her fiance, not the sailor.

2) The old man...assuming he is telling the truth about his age and condition, he perhaps really could not help, especially after this ordeal.

3) Businessman. While he did not provide help, he had obligations of his own, and since no one's life was in danger, he went back to business. He did not take advantage of Mary. 

4) John, while he should have trusted and understood her, he still felt understandably slighted by her action.

5) Bob is next to the last in morality, he did not offer any help to Mary when she needed to see John, but he was there when she was readily available, possibly took advantage of a woman in her weakness when he could have helped save the relationship.

6) Sailor is the least moral, for knowingly taking full advantage of a woman in her weakness, he could have helped her without the sex.

 

I had trouble with the last two. It is possible that Bob is the least moral for doing nothing at all to really help the situation, whereas the sailor was at least straightforward, and yet was the only one who helped.

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I think you are cheating Ken. And, you are only trying to apply reverse morals to fit with what you think may be the Chinese way. Damnit, I wish I thought of that.

 

OK, Dan where are you? Are you ever going to shine the divining light on us?

[ameriken]

Actually Dennis, i have been pondering this for days...it was really difficult to decide it quickly. My first reaction was Mary was the most immoral, but after some thought about all the characters, I came up with my answer.

 

I reallly dont know what the Chinese way would be, except this: I just showed this to Jie, and her first comment was "Its not possible, Chinese woman would not do that stupid thing, to sleep with the sailor. "

 

As for me, the more I think about it, I think Bob is the most immoral. He offered no help at all for his best friend and best friends fiance.

Edited June 15, 2006 by ameriken (see edit history)

[Dennis143]

Actually Dennis, i have been pondering this for days. I dont know what the Chinese way would be.

 

In fact, I just showed this to Jie, and her first comment was "Its not possible, Chinese woman would not do that stupid thing, to sleep with the sailor"

 

As for me, the more I think about it, I think Bob is the most immoral. He offered no help at all for his best friend and best friends fiance.

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Good to know that you are as confused about this whole moral thing as I am, Ken.

 

I beginning to think that Dan just planted this to simply mess with our heads.

[ameriken]

Actually Dennis, i have been pondering this for days. I dont know what the Chinese way would be.

 

In fact, I just showed this to Jie, and her first comment was "Its not possible, Chinese woman would not do that stupid thing, to sleep with the sailor"

 

As for me, the more I think about it, I think Bob is the most immoral. He offered no help at all for his best friend and best friends fiance.

224290[/snapback]

Good to know that you are as confused about this whole moral thing as I am, Ken.

 

I beginning to think that Dan just planted this to simply mess with our heads.

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Yeah, good job Dan. And he wont even tell us what the class said.

[Guest pushbrk]

Actually Dennis, i have been pondering this for days...it was really difficult to decide it quickly. My first reaction was Mary was the most immoral, but after some thought about all the characters, I came up with my answer.

 

I reallly dont know what the Chinese way would be, except this: I just showed this to Jie, and her first comment was "Its not possible, Chinese woman would not do that stupid thing, to sleep with the sailor. "

 

As for me, the more I think about it, I think Bob is the most immoral. He offered no help at all for his best friend and best friends fiance.

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Ken,

 

I wonder if your assessment would change if it were clear to you that Bob was never in a position to help Mary get to John. Bob was with John. He was not with Mary, the sailor, the old man, and the businessman.

[warpedbored]

IMHO from most immoral to most moral

The sailor for being a scumbag who takes advantage of vulnerable women.

 

Bob for the same reasons as the sailor as well as betraying his best friend

 

Mary for being willing to do anything to get what she wanted.

 

John for not being able to forgive and forget

 

The businessman for putting himself above others

 

The old man for not being willing to help.

 

End result is they all suck

Edited June 16, 2006 by warpedbored (see edit history)

[ptcrusier333rph]

knowing my SO view.

mary would be the most immoral to sleep with another man would be shameful.

 

and bob the least for taking on a woman that is shamed.

 

robert

[SheLikesME?]

knowing my SO view. 

mary would be the most immoral to sleep with another man would be shameful.

 

and bob  the least for taking on a woman that is shamed.

 

robert

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And I get the feeling from all the ladies I communicated with that as a whole women have put up with men cheating for too long and now they are getting their divorces to get away from this. Finding a man who will not cheat seems to be delightful to them. But some seemed to have learned cheating from the men, so I can see how some have mixed attitudes and confused. There does seem to be the subservient attitude with some women who might compromise if they think it would please their man, or if he asked her to. Conversations get strange with women in China I find, at times. But, I believe, all I talked with wanted a good marriage where both could and would be faithful. Most were divorced which may explain some of what I was told. So I wonder what Dan's information is as well, when was it done, where was it done (rural or city), education, and what was their age?

[ameriken]

Actually Dennis, i have been pondering this for days...it was really difficult to decide it quickly. My first reaction was Mary was the most immoral, but after some thought about all the characters, I came up with my answer.

 

I reallly dont know what the Chinese way would be, except this: I just showed this to Jie, and her first comment was "Its not possible, Chinese woman would not do that stupid thing, to sleep with the sailor. "

 

As for me, the more I think about it, I think Bob is the most immoral. He offered no help at all for his best friend and best friends fiance.

224290[/snapback]

Ken,

 

I wonder if your assessment would change if it were clear to you that Bob was never in a position to help Mary get to John. Bob was with John. He was not with Mary, the sailor, the old man, and the businessman.

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Then he was even more immoral......I forgot...he could not help Mary, but was with John the whole time.

 

Then we must assume he was also there when Mary told John what happened.

 

He found Mary to be moral and trustworthy enough that he married her......therefore, he could have helped convince his best friend not to leave her, and that she was good enough of a woman to marry.

 

But he did nothing of the sort and instead chose to "console" (emphasis on the "quotes") Mary and marry her himself.

Edited June 16, 2006 by ameriken (see edit history)