Social Security Benefits

[rogerluli]

There are a number of us "older members" here who have married younger Chinese women. I think we have an obligation to plan for them after our demise... (I am sorry to report that death is a 'when' not an 'if').Many, if not most, of them will be relying on our earnings record to collect SS benefits. I just received "Your Social Security Statement" as you all do every year before your birthday. Looking at the differences between taking your benefit at 62 (the minimum age), full retirement age (66 for those born from '43-'54, increasing to 67 for those born in '60 or later), and at age 70 is most interesting for our situations.

 

The benefit schedule is designed to pay out about the same amount to each worker over their lifetime. So those collecting benefits at 62, 66 or 70 should all total up about the same given average life expectancies. The real difference comes for your spouse. Here are my current benefits from the statement...

62 - $1,159

66 - $1,627

70 - $2,190

The 'delayed retirement benefits' from age 66 to 70 are 8% / year. Are your investments making a guaranteed 8%?

If your spouse does not qualify for benefits on her own, her maximum benefit is 50% of yours. If you are deceased she is eligible for the benefit that you were receiving.

I have already decided to delay receiving my benefits until age 70 although I plan to 'retire' at 65. I will be able to structure a state pension to make up the difference for those 5 years. But even without being able to do that I would try to spend other retirement funds over those years in order to leave my wife with the largest possible payment for her lifetime, and since she is 19 years younger the actuary will tell us that could be a long time.

[Randy W]

But, during the 4 years from 66 to 70, you could draw

 

$1627x48 = $78,096

 

at the 8%, this would give you $520 every month, which would come very close to making up the difference.

 

I've heard people who were close to retirement say that it's best to take the SS payments at your retirement age, but this doesn't consider a big age difference, although with a large age difference, your wife will most likely be around longer to receive the larger payments.

 

So, yes, if you have something to cover the 4 years, you may wish to wait, but I would think twice before passing up the $78,096 in favor of larger payments later.

 

Myself, I would prefer cash in hand NOW (over 66-70 years), to cash in THER bank.

[chef4u]

I also recall that you need to be married at least ten years before any social security benefit could be given to your spouse.

[yuehan123]

I went to the SS web site to find out how long you need to be married- generally nine months. and then there's this-

 

Social Security survivors benefits can be paid to: * A widow/widower-full benefits at full retirement age, or reduced benefits as early as age 60. A disabled widow/widower may receive benefits as early as age 50.

 

And then, there's more dealing with citizenship, country of residence and, maybe most importantly, change of address. Read all about it. http://www.socialsecurity.gov

[rogerluli]

I seem to recollect that if she remarries after your untimely demise, she loses the SS$. You have been talking about retiring in China and that raises another issue if she is not a US citizen and living abroad.

221458[/snapback]

There are a lot of other issues. Everybody is different on this one...you have to factor in health issues, other income, etc, etc.And yes re-marriage does affect her benefits. We are still not decided on the issue of whether laopo will become a USC or not...more issues.

 

As for Randy's post I have heard financial advisers recommending waiting if you can afford it. And obviously part of my thinking is the large age difference between my wife and myself.

[yuehan123]

One of the tools used to evaluate income from a source such as social security or retirement is called "pantom holdings." That is, what size "phantom" portfolio would you need to generate the income equal to your earnings?

 

Using Roger's example, and 5% per year as a conservative rate of return:

 

5%*(x)= $1159/mo 5%(x)= $13,908/year (x)= $13,908/.05 (x)=$274,345

 

5%*(x)= $2190/mo 5%(x)= $26,280/year (x)= $26280/.05 (x)=$518,681

 

If, a big if, you can afford it, wouldn't you choose to wait?

[rogerluli]

One of the tools used to evaluate income from a source such as social security or retirement is called "pantom holdings." That is, what size "phantom" portfolio would you need to generate the income equal to your earnings?

 

Using Roger's example, and 5% per year as a conservative rate of return:

 

5%*(x)= $1159/mo  5%(x)= $13,908/year  (x)= $13,908/.05  (x)=$274,345

 

5%*(x)= $2190/mo  5%(x)= $26,280/year  (x)=  $26280/.05  (x)=$518,681

 

If, a big if, you can afford it, wouldn't you choose to wait?

221532[/snapback]

I'll wait...Of course the easy way to calculate this is to know ahead of time how long you and laopo each will live...

[Dennis143]

One of the tools used to evaluate income from a source such as social security or retirement is called "pantom holdings." That is, what size "phantom" portfolio would you need to generate the income equal to your earnings?

 

Using Roger's example, and 5% per year as a conservative rate of return:

 

5%*(x)= $1159/mo?5%(x)= $13,908/year?(x)= $13,908/.05?(x)=$274,345

 

5%*(x)= $2190/mo?5%(x)= $26,280/year?(x)=?$26280/.05?(x)=$518,681

 

If, a big if, you can afford it, wouldn't you choose to wait?

221532[/snapback]

I'll wait...Of course the easy way to calculate this is to know ahead of time how long you and laopo each will live...

221544[/snapback]

For you, Roger:

 

http://www.deathclock.com/

 

OH, and be sure to click on OPTiMISTIC.

Edited June 4, 2006 by Dennis143 (see edit history)

[rogerluli]

One of the tools used to evaluate income from a source such as social security or retirement is called "pantom holdings." That is, what size "phantom" portfolio would you need to generate the income equal to your earnings?

 

Using Roger's example, and 5% per year as a conservative rate of return:

 

5%*(x)= $1159/mo?5%(x)= $13,908/year?(x)= $13,908/.05?(x)=$274,345

 

5%*(x)= $2190/mo?5%(x)= $26,280/year?(x)=?$26280/.05?(x)=$518,681

 

If, a big if, you can afford it, wouldn't you choose to wait?

221532[/snapback]

I'll wait...Of course the easy way to calculate this is to know ahead of time how long you and laopo each will live...

221544[/snapback]

For you, Roger:

 

http://www.deathclock.com/

 

OH, and be sure to click on OPTiMISTIC.

221548[/snapback]

Did it years ago and got like 94... So I wouldn't want to try again and get a lower number...

[chef4u]

I also recall that you need to be married at least ten years before any social security benefit could be given to your spouse.

221493[/snapback]

OOOPS!! I'm bad!!..........sorry guys for the mistake. The ten year deal is if your x's are trying to collect 50% of your benefit. My X fell short of ten years by 4 months....to bad.

 

Anyway, if anybody wants to know about a divorce spouse collecting your ss benefits the following is from the ss web site.....sorry for the off topic.

 

A person can receive benefits as a divorced spouse on a former spouse¡¯s Social Security record if he or she:

 

was married to the former spouse for at least 10 years;

is at least age 62 years old;

is unmarried;

is not entitled to a higher Social Security benefit on his or her own record.

In addition, the former spouse must be entitled to receive his or her own retirement or disability benefit. If the former spouse is eligible for a benefit, but has not yet applied for it, the divorced spouse can still receive a benefit if he or she meets the eligibility requirements above and has been divorced from the former spouse for at least two years.

 

Generally, benefits cannot continue to be paid if the divorced spouse remarries someone other than the former spouse, unless the latter marriage ends (whether by death, divorce, or annulment), or the marriage is to a person entitled to certain types of Social Security auxiliary or survivor's benefits.

A person can receive benefits as a surviving divorced spouse on the Social Security record of a former spouse who died fully insured, if he or she:

 

is at least age 60, or age 50 and disabled;

was married to the former spouse for at least 10 years; and

is not entitled to a higher Social Security benefit on his or her own record.

If the surviving divorced spouse age 60 or over applying for benefits remarried after age 60, or after age 50 and at the time of remarriage was entitled to disability benefits, the marriage is disregarded. If a person is already entitled to benefits as an aged or disabled surviving divorced spouse and remarries, benefits continue regardless of the person's age at the time of remarriage.

 

The benefits paid to a divorced spouse or a surviving divorced spouse will not affect the benefit amount paid to other family members who receive benefits on the same record.

 

If you would like to receive an estimate of benefits you may receive as a divorced spouse or a surviving divorced spouse, you may contact our representatives at our toll-free number, 1-800-772-1213. They may be able to provide you with this information over the telephone. If you prefer, you may visit one of our offices. You can get the address and directions to your nearest office from the Social Security Office Locator that is available on the Internet.

Edited June 5, 2006 by chef4u (see edit history)

[Dennis143]

Hot damn!  Sunday, November 26, 2028.

 

Oh SHIT! That's only 12 1/2 years and Xiahong want to work for 6 more! What to do....what to do?

221554[/snapback]

Here's a better and more accurate one:

 

http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/calcs/n_expect/main.asp

[rogerluli]

Hot damn!  Sunday, November 26, 2028.

 

Oh SHIT! That's only 12 1/2 years and Xiahong want to work for 6 more! What to do....what to do?

221554[/snapback]

Here's a better and more accurate one:

 

http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/calcs/n_expect/main.asp

221847[/snapback]

Jumping jehosaphat now I'm going to live to be 101...

 

And laopo will be only 82...hope I can still catch her...

[mercator]

I'm just shy of 37 years old. Anyone my age relying on jack diddly squat from social security is living in a dream world. Hell, anyone under 50 should be skeptical.

 

Enjoy the fruits of my labors in your later years... I won't. :\

[rogerluli]

I'm just shy of 37 years old.  Anyone my age relying on jack diddly squat from social security is living in a dream world.  Hell, anyone under 50 should be skeptical.

 

Enjoy the fruits of my labors in your later years...  I won't.  :\

221899[/snapback]

Thanks a million for your sacrifice Kenn...Me and the other "olde-timers" here will sure appreciate those checks every month when we're lying on the beach at Sanya and eating a platter of seafood every night...

 

Everyone worries about SS, but I think it will be there in some form far into the future. It's too important a cornerstone of our American system to let it die. What party would want that around their necks?

[Randy W]

I'm just shy of 37 years old.0„2 Anyone my age relying on jack diddly squat from social security is living in a dream world.0„2 Hell, anyone under 50 should be skeptical.

 

Enjoy the fruits of my labors in your later years...0„2 I won't.0„2 :\

221899[/snapback]

Thanks a million for your sacrifice Kenn...Me and the other "olde-timers" here will sure appreciate those checks every month when we're lying on the beach at Sanya and eating a platter of seafood every night...

 

Everyone worries about SS, but I think it will be there in some form far into the future. It's too important a cornerstone of our American system to let it die. What party would want that around their necks?

221975[/snapback]

 

 

and it's to much of a political football to take money out of the hands of those who have been expecting it (or at least paying into it) all their lives, and who see the older generations getting their share.