Is it best to become US citizen.........

[m-coon]

I have read several threads that touch on this subject. Can we try to compile some good input of usable data that substanciates that it is (either) best for a Chinese SO to change citizenship to USA or not?

 

In my case - my wife is a (near) 47 year old woman. I don't see any chance of her accumulating any retirement here in the US. So she may be better off staying a Chinese citizen and receiving what is due to her from China? Or am I mistaken - and that it will be best to change citizenship so she can obtain benefits from the US government?

 

I don't particularly want her to change citizenship - but I would like to make the best decision for her future. We are fortunate enough that we stand to inherrit a "fair" amount of money when my father passes - So I don't really see a need to "pinch nickels". We will "more or less" be comfortable the rest of our lives.

 

I am asking CFL members to post their opinions on the benefit or "draw back" to changing citizenship? I just want to do what is best for her. My largest concern is that (if I were to pass), perhaps she would like to take our money and go back to China... And be with her family... As she has only come here to be with me - she doesn't particualrly want to live out her life here. China would be very comfortable for her in her old age with the amount of money she will have. So remaining a Chinese citizen in this case would be a huge asset!

 

I do appreciate any input any of you can provide.

 

Scott

[Stone]

I have read several threads that touch on this subject. Can we try to compile some good input of usable data that substanciates that it is (either) best for a Chinese SO to change citizenship to USA or not?

 

In my case - my wife is a (near) 47 year old woman. I don't see any chance of her accumulating any retirement here in the US. So she may be better off staying a Chinese citizen and receiving what is due to her from China? Or am I mistaken - and that it will be best to change citizenship so she can obtain benefits from the US government?

 

I don't particularly want her to change citizenship - but I would like to make the best decision for her future. We are fortunate enough that we stand to inherrit a "fair" amount of money when my father passes - So I don't really see a need to "pinch nickels". We will "more or less" be comfortable the rest of our lives.

 

I am asking CFL members to post their opinions on the benefit or "draw back" to changing citizenship? I just want to do what is best for her. My largest concern is that (if I were to pass), perhaps she would like to take our money and go back to China... And be with her family... As she has only come here to be with me - she doesn't particualrly want to live out her life here. China would be very comfortable for her in her old age with the amount of money she will have. So remaining a Chinese citizen in this case would be a huge asset!

 

I do appreciate any input any of you can provide.

 

Scott

174350[/snapback]

How about her children and your children? For many Chinese families, children play an important role on deciding future action plans.

 

Paul

[m-coon]

174350[/snapback]

How about her children and your children? For many Chinese families, children play an important role on deciding future action plans.

 

Paul

174353[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

Sorry - she only has 1 grown son who is staying in China - at least until we get a visa for him to come here as a perminant resident.

 

My children are all grown and moved away - they should not be any factor in this.

 

Scott

Edited December 8, 2005 by m-coon (see edit history)

[pkfops]

We havn't addressed that yet, though I expect her to return

to China when I pass.

 

My peresonal thought is she has given up enough to be

with me and I don't see her giving up her country.

[Jim - Portland, USA]

There is absolutely no definitive answer to the question "Is it best to be a Chinese citizen or a US citizen?". It all depends on the individual person and the circumstances that surround them. Everybody is different and with 1.3 billion Chinese people, there are 1.3 billion answers to this question.

 

Juxin and I are also pondering this question. For us, the biggest most number 1 reason for her to retain her Chinese citizenship is so that she can own property in China, such as plots, structures, and apartments.

 

If I'm not mistaken, foreigner individuals cannot legally own such property in China. Foreigners can lease it for 99 years or something like that, but not actually own it and have legal rights that can be protected in a Chinese court of law (albeit perhaps a corrupt court with a crooked judge )

 

Even if foreigners can (someday) legally own property there , I think the odds of that right being taken away from foreigners is much higher than the risk of that right being taken away from a Chinese citizen.

 

On the other hand, it would be nice for Juxin to become a US citizen so that we can easily travel abroad with US passports.

 

Yet on the other other hand , yes it would be nice for Juxin to be able to return to China and create (resume?) a life there if I were to die. Plus we both may want to retire there when we get old, which goes back to the benefit of her being able to own propoerty there ...

 

Tough question!

[Dan R]

The opportunity of retiring to China with her citizenship rights is a strong plus in my mind for retaining citizenship. If there will be children it brings in other issues of the right to choose citizenship when they become adults.

 

I like to keep options open

[jim_julian]

For us, the biggest most number 1 reason for her to retain her Chinese citizenship is so that she can own property in China, such as plots, structures, and apartments.

 

If I'm not mistaken, foreigner individuals cannot legally own such property in China.  Foreigners can lease it for 99 years or something like that, but not actually own it and have legal rights that can be protected in a Chinese court of law (albeit perhaps a corrupt court with a crooked judge  )

 

Even if foreigners can (someday) legally own property there , I think the odds of that right being taken away from foreigners is much higher than the risk of that right being taken away from a Chinese citizen.

174401[/snapback]

Jim, I think if you really check it out you'll find that people don't really own real estate in China. There may be exceptions but virtually everything is leased. A 70 year lease is typical and most Chinese would say they "own" the property that is leased.

 

The Chinese government does not hesitate to take property from citizens when that property is needed. You only have to look at the Three Gorges Dam project to see that in spades.

 

If this is an important factor in your decision process I recommend you get really authoritative opinions ... it would also be interesting feedback to this board.

[tonado]

http://www.nolo.com/product.cfm/objectID/D...eChapter/3/118/

 

Deciding Whether to Apply for Citizenship

B. The Advantages of U.S. Citizenship

 

U.S. citizenship is definitely an improvement over permanent resident status. At the very least, you won't have to renew your green card every ten years -- or even carry the card around. But wait, there's more! As a U.S. citizen you get:

 

* the right to vote and obtain certain federal jobs (see Section B1)

* security from anti-immigrant laws (see Section B2)

* security from deportation (see Section B3)

* the right to live or take long trips outside the United States (see Section B4)

* special rights and protections when traveling outside the United States (see Section B5)

* an unquestioned right to return to the United States (see Section B6)

* the ability to bring other family members to the United States or to pass citizenship to your children (see Section B7), and

* the right to apply for public benefits (see Section B8).

 

1. The Right to Vote and Hold Certain Federal Jobs

 

Green card holders cannot vote in any U.S. election, be it local, state, or federal. (If you did vote, see an immigration lawyer immediately -- this could result in denial of your application for citizenship.) Once you receive U.S. citizenship, however, you can make your voice heard in local and national elections. Politicians are increasingly aware of the voting-bloc power of immigrants -- and are offering meaningful choices and reforms to immigrant voters as a result.

 

In addition to voting, U.S. citizenship will open the door to many federal job opportunities. The federal government is a huge employer, offering good salaries and job stability. You may not realize how many U.S. government branch offices are in your community -- the Social Security Administration, the Environmental Protection Agency, and more. Many U.S. Foreign Service jobs also require U.S. citizenship. If you've got political aspirations, you can run for elected office -- although you'll never be able to run for U.S. president or vice president. (You must be born in the U.S.A. to qualify for either of these jobs.)

2. Security From Anti-Immigrant Laws

 

These days, you can't open the newspaper without seeing a proposed change toughening up the federal immigration laws. These new laws primarily affect people who are here illegally or don't have green cards -- but even legal immigrants with green cards aren't immune. Congress -- limited only by Constitutional guarantees like free speech and equal protection -- can change the rights of green card holders at any time.

 

A dramatic example of this occurred in the late 1990s, when Congress decided to make green card holders ineligible for various federal benefits such as Supplemental Security Income (SSI). Thousands of elderly and disabled immigrants with low financial resources were suddenly cut off from their lifeline of cash support and medical or nursing home care. (The decision reportedly led to some suicides.) Congress subsequently softened this law, but tight restrictions remain. For example, immigrants who entered the United States after August 22, 1996, can qualify for SSI only if they've had a green card for five years and have worked 40 "quarters" (ten years) in the United States -- or fall into one of a few similarly narrow categories.

 

More recently, Congress has responded to U.S. security concerns by requiring that all airport baggage and passenger screeners be U.S. citizens.

 

As a U.S. citizen, you can stop worrying about Congress's latest idea. You'll have the same basic rights as any other U.S. citizen.

3. Security From Deportation

 

Although most green card holders can live in the United States for years without problems, an unfortunate number become deportable and lose their green cards. (We provided reasons for deportation in Section A1, above.)

 

With U.S. citizenship, the specter of deportation is removed. The grounds of deportation do not apply to U.S. citizens. However, USCIS -- although it rarely does so -- can take away your citizenship if it finds you lied when seeking your green card or citizenship.

4. The Right to Live Outside the U.S. or to Take Long Trips

 

A green card holder who spends more than six months abroad, or shows signs of resettling elsewhere, can lose permanent residence rights. Ironically, becoming a U.S. citizen allows you to spend less time in the United States -- even to make your home elsewhere if you wish. No one will take away your citizenship as a result. In addition, and unlike U.S. permanent residents, you will be allowed to continue receiving any retirement or other benefits you've earned from Social Security while you're living abroad.

 

Even if you want to retain your primary home inside the United States, gaining citizenship will be a huge help if you travel a great deal or have close family members or other obligations outside the United States. If family emergencies arise, you'll be able to attend to them, confident of your easy return to the United States.

5. Special Rights and Protections When Traveling Outside the U.S.

 

If you enjoy visiting other countries, you'll find your U.S. passport helpful. Many countries lighten their visa requirements and restrictions for citizens of the United States and other developed nations.

 

You'll also enjoy the protection of the U.S. State Department while you're traveling. The State Department takes very seriously its role in protecting U.S. citizens abroad. If you are injured, robbed, or run into other problems beyond your control, you'll find the local U.S. consulate invaluable in helping you arrange care and transportation home.

 

If you're arrested abroad, the State Department will help you find an attorney and see that you're treated humanely. (However, if you've actually committed a crime, don't count on the State Department to pressure the foreign state to stop your punishment. The degree of help you get depends on the seriousness of your crime and the relations between the United States and the foreign government.)

 

For a fuller picture of these services see the State Department website (www.state.gov).

6. Ease in Returning to the U.S.

 

Remember those long lines for green card holders that you stood in when you last entered the United States? The lines are much shorter for U.S. citizens. You'll still have to pass border patrol officials, but at least they won't be asking questions designed to see whether they should take away your green card. You will no longer be subject to inadmissibility rules every time you reenter the United States.

 

As we indicated in Section A1, above, green card holders must meet admissibility standards every time they enter the United States, and failing these standards can result in being barred from entry and from citizenship.

 

resources For more on inadmissibility, see the Immigration and Green Cards section of Nolo's online Legal Encyclopedia at www.nolo.com. Look for the article entitled "When the U.S. Can Keep You Out." Also see U.S. Immigration Made Easy, by Laurence A. Canter and Martha S. Siegel (Nolo).

7. Increased Ability to Help Family Members Immigrate

 

As a U.S. citizen, your existing children with green cards, any children you adopt, and any children born to you after you receive your citizenship automatically (well, almost automatically, depending on the circumstances) become U.S. citizens. For more on passing citizenship to your children, see Chapter 11.

 

In addition, you can submit a petition to sponsor certain other family members for U.S. green cards (but not citizenship -- they'll have to wait a few years just like you did). You'll be able to submit petitions for your parents, your children, your spouse, and your brothers and sisters. Unfortunately, not all of these petitions result in your family member getting a green card right away. If your children are older than 21 or are married, they'll be put on a waiting list that usually lasts several years. Your brothers and sisters will also be put on a waiting list that averages at least ten years in length. Without your citizenship, however, the same family members would either wait much longer or have no rights to immigrate at all.

 

For more information on how your citizenship can help your family members to immigrate, see Chapter 11.

8. Eligibility for Public Benefits

 

If your life takes a difficult turn and you discover you can't pay for your own food or medical care, you'll have a much easier time qualifying for government help if you're a U.S. citizen. You will be permitted to apply for SSI (if you're disabled and low-income), federal food stamps, general assistance (cash support), nonemergency medical services, and a variety of state assistance programs -- all of which are off limits or severely restricted while you're a permanent resident. Even if you never plan to rely on government help, knowing it's available in an emergency can be reassuring.

[tonado]

Disadvantage of losing the Chinese Citizenship (after becoming US citizen):

 

Must get visa to travel to China.

May pay higher price for hotels (or travel arrangements) in China.

[Dan R]

Also lose benefits associated through hokou registration as a city resident. These vary by location but can be quite good for health benefits if living in China.

[Jim - Portland, USA]

For us, the biggest most number 1 reason for her to retain her Chinese citizenship is so that she can own property in China, such as plots, structures, and apartments.

 

If I'm not mistaken, foreigner individuals cannot legally own such property in China.  Foreigners can lease it for 99 years or something like that, but not actually own it and have legal rights that can be protected in a Chinese court of law (albeit perhaps a corrupt court with a crooked judge  )

 

Even if foreigners can (someday) legally own property there , I think the odds of that right being taken away from foreigners is much higher than the risk of that right being taken away from a Chinese citizen.

174401[/snapback]

Jim, I think if you really check it out you'll find that people don't really own real estate in China. There may be exceptions but virtually everything is leased. A 70 year lease is typical and most Chinese would say they "own" the property that is leased.

 

The Chinese government does not hesitate to take property from citizens when that property is needed. You only have to look at the Three Gorges Dam project to see that in spades.

 

If this is an important factor in your decision process I recommend you get really authoritative opinions ... it would also be interesting feedback to this board.

174413[/snapback]

Jim, up until last year, that was indeed the case - even Chinese citizens could not legally own property in China in perpetuity. But last year a law was passed that allows Chinese citizens to own property just like in the US, forever and ever ... but with exceptions of course ... one must keep up with property taxes, can't break certain laws, the government can take your property away for "a greater good" (e.g. eminent domain, expropriation, etc) - just like here in the US. And yes, abuses of government expropriation happens in China just like it does here in the US.

 

All that I'm not clear on is if that new law applies to non-citizens.

[Joanne]

There is an emotional side to that decision, too. US is a good country, but I cann't imagine me being called an American. Or is it true that: USC!=American?

[jim_julian]

last year a law was passed that allows Chinese citizens to own property just like in the US, forever and ever ... but with exceptions of course ... one must keep up with property taxes, can't break certain laws, the government can take your property away for "a greater good" (e.g. eminent domain, expropriation, etc) - just like here in the US.  And yes, abuses of government expropriation happens in China just like it does here in the US.

174443[/snapback]

Interesting ... do you have a web reference for the law? Is it a national law?