The beauty thing and Chinese women

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

It's not only makeup thats seldom used, but jewelry, whether it's earrings, rings, piercings, nose clips, tongue studs, lip hooks, toe rings, boobie thingies, and eyebrows. You might find an occasional necklace. And tattoos? Maybe they saw the Saturday Night Live skit where they artificially aged the women that were getting the lower back tattoos. Not a pretty sight.

 

My SO does not commonly wear makeup, but when she does, she's quite skilled in its application and not looking like that chubby character that's always at odds with Drew Cary. What the heck is her name anyway?

[sylinchinastill]

I too have noticed how blunt Chinese people are about beauty. My first year in China I lost quite a bit of weight because of walking so much and eating only vegetables (I was vegetarian but in the US that meant a lot more pizza than in China)- and after I had lost some weight a fellow teacher told me that I looked sick- a man I tutored for saw an earlier picture of me and told me I was fatter before- stuff like that.

 

Jeikun- I like the comment that her face would stop a clock. I've never heard that before.

 

I think Chinese women (the ones I have known) are pretty concerned about their looks. I agree with Jeikun- there is no standard for it. My husband's step-mother is very beautiful. I could pick her up and carry her as an accessory. She is that small. But beauty in China is sometimes viewed as a curse too. Like that women who are too beautiful can have a bad life and/or bad luck. I was really surprised about the whitening cream too. I'm not sure but I don't think it is good for your skin. I did really like the fact that in China my skin color was good. (I am very white) China was the only place where I haven't been pressured to tan.

[rogerluli]

I think there is a sometimes subtle difference between Chinese women and American women regarding attitudes about "beauty".  It's my observation that the "beauty" you talk about, as held more important by Chinese women, (and it is, I believe), has more to do with the high value of aesthetics,  than ego.  As such, egos are not as easily offended.  For aesthetics has a kind of neutrality -  it just "is" - albeit often personal and subjective.  Chinese seem to value aesthetics in many ways - flowers - colors - fashion - form - mountains - umbrellas too. I don't think the aesthetics aspect of beauty, as Chinese women see it, has as large of a role in attitudes about love as "beauty" (in the American sense) has in American women.  Indeed,  Chinese women seem to value the "good" more than American women, regarding love.  Perhaps this idea about "the good" is somewhere imbedded in the psyche of Chinese culture.  It's reported that 300-400 BC, when a young Sun Tsu asked "How does a man become satisfied with one woman?" - the reply was  -- "A man becomes satisfied with one woman when he falls in love with her soul". And "when the woman falls in love with the man's soul - this then is the marriage of souls - and this marriage is to be held sacred in the hearts of those so blessed -- and tended to, as one would tend a garden of delicate flowers". I offer this as a very tiny piece of support about the imbeddedness aspect of "the good" . Of course these are overly vast generalizations, so I'm open to tossing it all out too!

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For my money I think Vincent nailed what I was looking for in starting this thread. The ideal of beauty in the aesthetic sense and not the personal. I like that...

 

As for cosmetics and jewelry and clothing and on and on I have no problem with Luli or any other woman wearing whatever they wish to make themselves look good. If it gives a woman more self confidence about herself or if she is doing it just to make herself as beautiful as possible for her SO I say great. Luli dresses beautifully compared to the all too common Wisconsin frumpy wife and I love it. She never, ever just throws something on but always tries to look her best for me. Thsi is such a welcome change from my ex who lived in SWEATS...

[awch]

I too have noticed how blunt Chinese people are about beauty. My first year in China I lost quite a bit of weight because of walking so much and eating only vegetables (I was vegetarian but in the US that meant a lot more pizza than in China)- and after I had lost some weight a fellow teacher told me that I looked sick- a man I tutored for saw an earlier picture of me and told me I was fatter before- stuff like that.

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No joke on that. My last few months in China I was working out a lot and actually got quite a lot of muscle in my arms. My husband's mother kept telling me how fat I was- "yi dian ye bu shou" (not even a little bit thin). And when we were looking at our wedding pictures his mom told me I looked too fat in my qipao dress and that only thin people should wear them.

 

My mom thinks it's hilarious because I have always been abnormally thin. But just not in China.

Edited September 21, 2005 by amberzhu (see edit history)

[tywy_99]

Some of it could be generational differences.  My wife seldom puts on any make up. I would say the vast majority of american women in their late 40s wouldn't leave the house without it.  I have noticed that many middle aged Chinese women seldom wear make up.  Personally I think she looks just fine without it.

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I agree with you, Carl. The new and newer generations have alot more freedom and exposure to the western world then the generations that went before.

I can see the difference between my wife and her daughter and it's quite the generation gap, to be sure!

[vincent214]

This thread began with Roger's evocative, far reaching, title "The Beauty Thing and Chinese Women". For the most part, replies are about "make-up". The idea of "make-up" or "body-paint" goes back 1,000's of years, in all cultures. Sometimes it was religious, sometimes personal, sometimes to connect with nature, etc. I suggested in an above post that the "beauty thing" is more aesthetic, and less of an ego thing, for Chinese women than for American women. But for all women (and men too), it is sometimes simply a metaphor for something else going on, less evident. For some women, no make-up or little make-up is their way of presenting themselves to the world. These women have the benefit of receiving love from those who love them who see the extraordinary in the simple (often that is where the truly extraordinary resides, in the "simple").

 

However, we all wear "make-up". Perhaps not on our faces or bodies, but in the clothes we choose, the cars we drive, the furniture that surrounds us, the way we prepare/present our food, and much more. This "make-up" could be in the "aesthetic" realm, or could be a mask that fits a persona thing - as a way to sometimes appropriately or inappropriately hide, or it coul be a conforming to a cultural norm, or it could also be negatively narcissistic. Since CFL is about love and relationships, the bottom line I think is how or when or if, our "make-up" hinders or enhances our unique realness for love. After all, only real selves can give and receive real love.

 

Roger - your choice of that great Billie Holiday thought (now yours because you chose it), *If I'm going to sing like someone else, then I don't need to sing at all.* speaks loudly to the importance of the unique, individual, authentic self - consequently to "love".

 

And, to Jason, I agree with your wise thought that truth is found in extremes and in-between, and everywhere. But frankly, I don't think describing a woman as either jaw-breakingly beautiful or whose face is stop-a-clock (ugly), is helpful. As I see it, that's the opposite of what CFL is about, and the opposite of Billie Holiday's insight.

[Yuanyang]

....

 

So what about hair? My darling has been getting white hairs (she says due the stress of separation and waiting) and yanks'em out. She has our Mother and daughter help in this mining process.

 

How about your darling love? Is she greying gracefully or performing a purge that would make Stalin blush?

[jim_julian]

However, we all wear "make-up".  Perhaps not on our faces or bodies, but in the clothes we choose, the cars we drive, the furniture that surrounds us, the way we prepare/present our food, and much more.  This "make-up" could be in the "aesthetic" realm, or could be a mask that fits a persona thing - as a way to sometimes appropriately or inappropriately hide, or it coul be a conforming to a cultural norm, or it could also be negatively narcissistic. 

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... just a snippet to remind people what's above ...

 

Vincent: You are a high quality poster (that would be as opposed to high volume)

 

I, for one, really appreciate your thoughtful posts ... thank you!

[Dennis143]

Vincent: "THE THREAD KILLER"Coming Soon to a theater near you

 

OK, you are absolutely 100% correct, Vince. We all hide behind our masks. and I'm hiding behind my comedy mask.

Edited September 22, 2005 by Dennis143 (see edit history)

[vincent214]

Dennis143 Posted Today, 02:04 AM

But, I still think Asian women are HOT!!!!!!

 

All the men here are attracted to Asian women as well. All of us have gone through frustration and sacrifice to love and unite with our special ladies half way around the world. And CFL members have been wonderful in emotional support and specfic "know how" to make it more bearable. We don't disagree at all.

[rogerluli]

....

 

So what about hair? My darling has been getting white hairs (she says due the stress of separation and waiting) and yanks'em out.  She has our Mother and daughter help in this mining process.

 

How about your darling love?  Is she greying gracefully or performing a purge that would make Stalin blush?

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"greying gracefully".. Not gonna' happen...Yes Laopo also yanks out those offending hairs but she has just a few so far...A few years with me should change that considerably...

[izus]

some products that she will go all the way to hong kong for.

these products are too expensive or not available in china. so i purchase them here and send them

my baby lives off this stuff

not so much make up but skin care products

her skin is immaculate

Este Lauder

Uncircle

Clinique

Clarifying Lotion 2 400ml

Clinique

Basic Treatment

Clinique

(Invisible Light)

Refining Lotion 40g

 

Chun sent me some lotion that she purchased in HK to prevent my crows feet that she wants me to use

[david_dawei]

Finally had the time to read through this post.. very interesting to say the least.

 

My SO of 31 y.o does not wear any make-up, wears little jewelry, etc.

 

When we shop, she will normally remark of something as pretty or beauty.. anything other than that is usually not bought. If other ladies are along, the are asked as well (hao kan ma?) .. if any say it is not beauty then that clothing is immediately put back on the shelf and forgetten...

 

I see a certain candidness from the chinese ladies I know about saying something is beautiful and particularly when it comes to ladies. They are open about stating it; but they are also open about stating that someone is fat. And I see no hangups from the people as to it being an ego comment.. either on the sending side or receiving side.

 

I agree that it is really more about aesthetic value in people, clothing, jewelry, food, art, etc. Sometimes I'll ask why a certain food is put into a dish and I am told , 'it makes it look beautiful'...

 

I actually tend to agree that we all have a mask in various forms... and I see fewer masks from the Asians, who are more open to giving their immediately feeling and receiving it without offense...

[Randy W]

Vincent: "THE THREAD KILLER"Coming Soon to a theater near you

 

OK, you are absolutely 100% correct, Vince.  We all hide behind our masks.  and I'm hiding behind my comedy mask.

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I think that new avatar is enough to kill any thread, Dennis!

[Dennis143]

Vincent: "THE THREAD KILLER"Coming Soon to a theater near you

 

OK, you are absolutely 100% correct, Vince.  We all hide behind our masks.  and I'm hiding behind my comedy mask.

156046[/snapback]

 

 

I think that new avatar is enough to kill any thread, Dennis!

156446[/snapback]

is this better?