Minister

Ok, so I think we have some Chinese neighbors. I kind of want to meet them. But then, I kind of don't. Let me explain. I've done my best since my li'l Angel moved to the states to help her meet new friends. I've introduced American girls and couples, Japanese girls and couples (she lived in Japan for 10 years), and also, Chinese girls and couples. I've even been lucky enough to find a few Chinese girls of about her age that lived in Japan too. That seemed pretty sweet to me... I thought that these girls especially would have something in common with my wife and that maybe they could be friends. Well... Boy, was I wrong. How can I say this delicately... Chinese... Well... Chinese girls don't seem to like each other very much. Sometimes, they seem to be very competitive, have some regional prejudices, and, to say it very directly; They sometimes have a tendency to assume the worst about each other. I would like to say that this is just my observation. But really, my wife, and other Chinese people that I have met have told me this very plainly. I've seen it too. There is a TREMENDOUS tendency among Chinese to compare themselves to each other. Sometimes, this can be very stressful. Finally. My attempts to make friends with Americans and Japanese have gone swimmingly. But, so far, attempts to make Chinese friends have been cordial at best and, well, passive aggressively hostile at worst. But somewhere in my heart, I just think that we will someday meet those Chinese people / Chinese-American couple that will really be a support to my wife and help her to fully adjust to American life. So, I put forth to the forum here, is there hope for the dream or is it a lost cause? What's been your opinion or experience? Hooray for the internet!

Hello all! I hope everyone is doing well. My li'l Angel is in America and her Biometrics appointment is on the 4th. Hooray! Anywho, we are planning our wedding celebration. Of course, we are inviting her mother, father, and brother. Now, we are helping them to prepare for their B Visa appointment. I have read some good advice on other threads, but most of it seems to be a few years old. So, in the words of the Katha Upanishad, "There is no other teacher such as you to be found. This thing I would know as taught by you." Of course, we have a general schedule of events and we know where her family will stay for each event. But, we haven't made flight arrangements yet (as you know, most people say it is always better to make flight and hotel arrangements AFTER you receive the visa). How should we communicate this to the VO? Should we say, "Yes, we have made specific arrangements" and give a general schedule and say when and where we will be, even though we don't know flight numbers yet? Or is it better to just say, "We are still considering the exact dates for coming and going because of the way airplane ticket costs change and because it is so far in the future"? Also, about paying for the trip; Her parents will pay for their airfare and whatnot. But I will guarantee their expenses. I have communicated this in a letter to the VO, but on the forms, we have written that her family will pay their own way. This, of course, is the true state of affairs. But, because I will guarantee the costs, should I write that I will pay their way? I don't think so, but I don't know much about visa law. Well, hooray, everyone. Thanks for your help! Next time you're in Cincinnati, let us know!

This confused me too. It seems they ask everyone for fingerprints now. They say that it, "helps to make sure you have no trouble when you arrive in the states." But they can't say more than that. In any case, it's $85 and about 10 minutes so you might as well get it done. But don't worry about it!

Ok, so she got the visa. I went to the ACH on Monday to show my face and do my best and it was not what I expected. I think many of us go to ACH thinking that we are going to receive a lecture or a forum or something. Actually, you just get to take a number and go to a booth and ask questions. A lot of Americans there are angry at the VOs so, when I was smiling, it seemed like a relief to them. So the interview... We waited in the front in a "line" that was very Chinese despite being at the American consulate. At first, the guy didn't want to let me into the building with my sweetie, but one flash of the blue passport and an explanation that I wanted to wait in the fourth floor coffee house was enough to get me in. I waved my Angel goodbye as she went up to the fifth floor. I went into the coffee shop and waited (with a VERY strong cup of coffee). I considered getting a ceegar (as another CFL member has said), but finally, I didn't because I would have to fight about smoking again. Anyway, I was sitting next to a nice Chinese lady waiting for her daughter and a nice man from Iowa. Actually, I thought that the man meant well, but as he told me his story, it became more and more apparent that this fellow was in for some bad news. Anyway, I just wished him luck again and again. Anywho, I got up to use the facilities at about 10:05 AM. Then I heard my sweetie call my name from behind me. She said, "I passed! I passed! and ran down the hall full of people hawking visa services and jumped into my arms. I picked her up and spun her around and everyone on the whole floor cheered for us. It was really very perfect. So about the interview: VO: Passport? SO: (Her passport and my passport are provided) VO: When did you meet him? SO: for work in Japan... VO: How many times did he visit you? SO: Twice in China, twice in Japan. He's here now. VO: Can I see his taxes? SO: Here's 2006. Do you want 2005? VO: No. VO: Can you speak Russian? SO: What? Sorry? VO: Can you speak Russian? SO: No, I can speak English and Japanese, the same as my fiance. VO: Are you CCP? SO: (Laughs) No. And then she got the pink. Anyway, he called her back when she brought the visa post office documents in. He told her that he wanted to help her get her fingerprints in order and some other things to be sure she didn't have any trouble when she immigrated. I guess I'm happy that he wants to help. So, that's us. She comes on November 3rd. Good luck to all of you! Tienhu Garden Hotel is OK and very economical. Mr. Yang is very kind. But this is NOT a five star hotel. Do NOT expect that.

In less than 12 hours, my plane leaves for China. I'm going to support my sweetheart in her interview in the big GZ. Today was a flurry of activity. Between 11 hours or work, I managed to make some last minute purchases and get two extra years of taxes and a copy of my original I-134 notarized. No matter what happens, I want to thank CFL for your support and responses. I will be at Mr. Yang's hotel all week and I hope to attend ACH on Monday. If anyone else is there, please look for a tall blond man with a Chinese woman (How many combinations like that could there be in the American Consulate?) See you in Guangzhou!

These are wise words and I won't forget them. I do realize that the cultural differences between us are present. I know they can not be ignored. I think they can be overcome with a mixture of mutual patience, mutual understanding, and, most importantly, mutual fascination. You know, a friend of mine (a Chinese woman married to an American man) once said, "It's true, the cultural differences never go away. There always seems to be something to adjust too. But it's worth it." Another friend of mine (An American. His wife is Japanese) once said, "All of the differences between us can cause problems, but the richness that they add to your lives make it more than worth it." So far, I have found them both to be correct. It may be that I come off as too upbeat about it. But in any case, I will remember your advice and I thank you for it. Well, thank you for the advice. But are we really talking about direct confrontation with someone or just a friend's private jibe here? Of course I would take issue with someone spouting racist garbage to my fiancee. I would use my blisteringly cynical Detroit wit (or other appropriate means, short of violence, which is the Grand High Cardinal of All Things Lame) to show this guy what's up. But how often are you accosted by some clown in a white sheet calling your girl a "mud person"? As for people saying this to me... Why would I ever tell her about it? What good would it ever do to tell her that someone insulted her if she didn't have to know? In my opinion, the real problem is not the vocal assault, but the quiet judgment of your character. The first can tick you off for about 5 minutes and make you say, "Jeez. That guy's a real jackass". The second can lead to all kinds of long term troubles and resentments. It can cause people to lose respect for you and treat you differently, without ever telling you why. So that's what I mean to address. In the very first post in this thread, I thought that the feeling underlying the racist comment was that the girl was "just lying and using him for a visa". I think this a lot more common than bold-faced racism. Anyway, that's just my opinion.

The only thing laughable about racism is that our open and multi-cultural society is still capable of producing racist thoughts. I have heard a lot of this type of thing too (Mostly jackassy questions about "Is everything on an Asian girl slanted? Har har har" ). But, to be honest, that kind of thing doesn't bother me very much. What bothers me is the stigma of foreign marriage. The whole "mail order bride" thing that follows the whole process around really gets my goat. Ok, maybe it is true that some people somewhere married their American husband for the visa. We've all heard the "friend-of-a-friend" stories about the Russian wife who disappeared on the honeymoon. Or the Mexican wife who had a boyfriend in the same city as her fiance. Those stories are as common as any other urban legend, I suppose. But that kind of thing actually happening is very very rare, I think. The process and the people who oversee the process are very thorough and it just isn't possible for that kind of thing to happen. Now, I travel a lot for work. And I have been pursued by women looking for an American. Those girls had an agenda (sometimes an agenda that they have stated very clearly). But, that agenda is very easy to see through. Honestly. I don't think that those kinds of girls are "fooling" anyone. You see what it is and you pass it by. But, since the reinstatement of my single status three years ago, I dated quite a few local girls too. Most of them had an agenda. Sometimes it was more clearly stated. Sometimes it was hidden. Sometimes THEY didn't even know they had it. But they had it. Their agenda wasn't "I want to go to America". Their agenda was "I want to go back to school" or "I want to have a baby" or "I want to live with someone and get rid of my debt" or "I want to quit working" or "I want to get married like all of my friends did". To these girls, I wasn't "love", I was a means to an end. And that's why I chose my sweetheart. Of all the girls I met, foreign and domestic, she was the only one WITHOUT an agenda. Of course, she has dreams and goals in life (we all do. I do too). But her goal for being with me is to be with me. That's it. Hell, do you think her first question was about America? For the first few months that I knew her, she was asking about ways that I could go to her! But I don't care where my Angel comes from, what I care about is the quality of our relationship. If the right girl for me was next door or in Timbuktu, I wouldn't care. It just so happens that she happens to be from China. So when I hear these things about "slant-eyed Mexicans" and girls who "don't care so much about their boyfriend's blue eyes as they do his green card", it makes me a little angry. Because the people of the world are all the same. Some girls (ANY girls) have an agenda, some don't. And to assume something about a relationship based on the geographical location of one of the members, shows a poor understanding, not just of foreign people, but of people in general. And that complete lack of understanding, in my opinion, is what should be laughed at.

Ok, I will concede this point. Despite frugality in other areas, "Christian Dior Diorsnow X2 Moisturizing and Whitening Lotion" and "SK II De-Wrinkle Active Facial Applicant" are not luxuries. No price is too high to pay for them and if anyone took them away from us, the sky would fall down immediately afterward.

When I was in China, I managed to eat everything but the silkworm cocoons... I said "No thank you." I was told, "They are very delicious!" I said, "Perhaps horse poop tastes like apple pie. I will never know because I'm not going to eat it." I was told, "It has a lot of protein." I replied, "So does (-_^), but I'm not going to eat that either." Before my parents arrived for the engagement party, I was asked about what they should order for the party. My request was simple, "Anything is OK, but please remove the face from whatever we are eating." As anyone who's been to China knows, this is a legitimate request.

This type of mix-up can happen very easily. I sent mail to my Sweetie very early in our relationship. I wrote in Japanese (She was living in Japan at that time). I meant to ask if she wanted to meet on my next business trip and, due to a grammar mistake, inadvertently asked her to shack up. Fortunately, she found it funny.

My future wife spent a lot of time in Japan (that's how we met). Our English conversations are peppered with Japanese (She is fluent. I am conversational in that language.) In Japan, the word for a real Scrooge is "ketchi" (Sounds like "kaych"). And that is our official word for her. We have had some fabulous episodes of ketchi-ness. And, during the beginning of our relationship, it was difficult for me to accept. For example, when we go shopping for clothing or other durable goods, she will carefully check every seam and stitch in the item to ensure that it is good. She rejected three different wallets at the one store before finally accepting one. (She later admitted to me that she wanted to check several other wallets, but she could see that I was uncomfortable so she decided to make do with the one she finally chose). Whenever I, like a foolish American, try to pay for things and wrap them up, she will scold me for hurrying. "You shouldn't even talk about paying until I've had a chance to negotiate a price and warranty!" But, truth be told, I am thankful for her ketchi heart. I am not a very good consumer and I have learned a lot from her. It is amazing how much farther my salary goes when I pay just a little attention to what I'm buying. I don't think I will ever equal her zeal, but I am a better man because of it. I think it has to do with the struggles in China in the 60s and 70s. Even though my sweetheart's family is well-to-do-ish, old family habits die hard. You know, my grandmother was alive during the Great Depression. Until the day she died, she couldn't throw away food. Even if there was just a sliver or butter in the dish or a single spoonful of food left after dinner, she would diligently save it in plastic wrap. My mother, despite a professional salary (now retired) and a generally healthy financial state, does the same thing to this day. I am sure that three generations of "Tupper Ware" factory owners have put children through college on my mother and grandmother's frugal zeal. When I can consider where it might come from and why, I can easily accept this cultural difference. When I consider the effect that attention to the small things can have on my ability to get the big things in life, I am even eagerly trying to embrace it. Incidentally: When I told her the story from this web site about the guy's wife who sat on a train for 30 hours rather than pop the extra $100 for airfare, my little Scrooge said, "Oh. I wanted to do that too. But from my city, it would be about three days to take the train. If it was only 30 or 40 hours, I would have done it."

This is excellent advice. Thank you very much. I was focusing on our "engagement" meeting in China (Our first two meetings were in Japan). I will add a page of some pictures of us together at Tokyo Disney Land to help show our relationship in a wider spectrum. With this in mind, I am actually going to make a little "time line" for us too. This may be useless, but I suppose it is better to have it and not need it than it is to need it and not have it. Thank you again!

FN is the "Function" key. Some laptops use this to make a screen shot rather than "Control".

I have the opposite problem. My little Angel lived in Japan for about 9 years. When she first went to Japan, she had that experience that I think only Chinese can have and really understand: moving to a foreign country, thinking that you have plenty of money in your savings, and then BOOM, realizing that you're poor. My income puts me towards the upper end of the spectrum (I'm by no means rich, don't get me wrong. The key words are "towards the upper end" not anywhere "near the top"!), but she still worries a little that she will have a hard life in the states. There doesn't seem to be anything that I can do to calm her heart completely. I imagine the financial culture shock of Japan left scars that won't disappear anytime soon. But honestly, I'm happy about it too. First, I think she will be pleasantly surprised. And second, despite her worries, she still wants to be together. This type of thing makes MY heart easy. -_^

This has been the most useful forum discussion in the history of the universe. (Ok, that may be an exaggeration but not by much.) An understanding of sa jiao has been, by far, the most important mental adjustment that I have ever made. Well, that and the ability to REALLY understand the value of a dollar! -_^ You know, in some cases, the scratch-the-surface cultural understanding that Americans and Chinese have about each other can lead to some interesting conversations early in a relationship. Apparently, according to Chinese rumor, all Americans: 1. Do drugs 2. Have multiple girlfriends 3. Drink to excess 4. Own guns 5. Join gangs while teenagers 6. Enjoy "ladies of the evening" 7. Spend all their free time at the casino 8. etc. My initial understanding of Chinese culture, based mostly on three Chinese coworkers and the movies Big Trouble in Little China and Farewell My Concubine, didn't leave me in a much better position at the start either. (For the record, my Sweetheart does not now, nor has she ever, owned a "six demon bag".) But, these first (rather comical) things aside, the continuous state of cultural discovery, both of our differences and our similarities, has lent a fascinating richness to our relationship. I believe that we know more about each other than most same-culture couples and we are always hungry to learn more. I wouldn't give it up for anything in the world. Thanks to everyone for their stories and information in this thread.

Sure thing! I used CTL+PRTSCR or FN+PRTSCR and made screen dumps of the summary, page by page. I then loaded them into an excel file and output it as PDF. Good advice and good luck!

We've been diligently working on our "kitchen sink" for the interview. I've been appreciating the chance to read what other couples have put in their "kitchen sink". It has been a real help for us. I want to send my heartfelt thanks to everyone. Additionally, we will both be in Guangzhou from October 14 through the 21st for our interview. We'll be at Mr. Yang's hotel in the consulate building. If anyone else plans to be there at the same time, please drop me a line. Let's grab a bite to eat and share stories! Anyway, what we've come up with is a binder. The outside of the binder has her picture, case number, and contact information on it. It seemed like this would be helpful in the event that things get mixed around. This binder has: 1. My passport, travel visas, and divorce documents. I have prepared some contact information for my ex, even though it seems it's not required. The letter from the consulate seems to state that, "If you [Applicant, not petitioner] have been married before, please bring... " But still, I'm giving it a shot. This is a bit of a challenge because I haven't seen or spoken to my ex in.. jeez... more than three years. I had to dig up tax information from 2002 to get what I need. But, better safe than sorry, I guess. 2. Financial statements for me (I-134, bank, W2, last year's notarized taxes, employment letter, pay stubs, etc.) 3. Correspondence - In order to show correspondence, I have elected not to print out 600 pages of emails (I have visions in my head of a Chinese lady taking a wheel-burrow full of emails up to the interview window and a Consular Officer sighing in despair.) I've just pulled about 6 new emails and 6 old emails. I've also printed an email history of the two of us showing daily contact for the past year. I can show pictures of her friends and family meeting me, but I've only got copies of my mother's email announcement of the engagement to show the contact to our friends and family. We've got screen shots of Skype and MSN messenger. I've managed to pull a contact history off of Skype to show daily conversations. I figured that this would also be preferable to reading through endless of pages of idle chat about what we did each day and what happened at work. 4. Proof of meeting - I made a little storybook about our time together in her hometown for our engagement party. Each page says basically what we did, and then shows a picture of us doing whatever it was and a receipt for it if such was available. It has us together, our families together, this kind of thing. I've included some receipts for eating out, shopping (for girl stuff, of course! I am about 6'2" tall and, well, that's not a common size in China), and touristy/sightseeing stuff. To be honest, it was a really great trip and it was a pleasure to make this section. 5. The last section has copies of all of our stuff that was sent to the USCIS. Some of this might be redundant, but it is important to have things available for convenience. Of course, you never can feel like you have enough. I have a lawyer to help me, but the lawyer seems to have a "less is more" attitude about things. Maybe they're right, though. If I had to do all those interviews every day, I would be happier if the documentary evidence just "cut to the chase". Did you make a binder? Am I missing something critical? Thanks for your help and we'll see you in Guangzhou!

Mr. and Mrs. Yang Jiahua, I and my fiancee will be coming to visit you from October 14 through October 21 of this year. She called and made a reservation last week. This hotel was recommended to me by Pshbrk. I can see that everyone has been happy with your hotel. My fiancee is very worried about her interview, but I am sure that everything will be OK. We look forward to meeting with you and maybe some other couples who are waiting for their interviews. Thank you for your support at this nervous time.