Bert

Thanks, Dan! Here's an update. We are almost there. I contacted a second visa service without giving them the details. So, rather than trying to drive the issue, I let them do it. The conclusion was the same--he must have a travel document. We're in Washington DC now. We made an emergency dash on Sunday. Well, actually, we are in Virginia about seven miles away from the Chinese Embassy Visa Section. We went there this morning. Everyone was so nice, from the security guards to the woman at the window. There was never a question; we needed the travel document. The woman behind the window was all smiles. Since I don't speak much Mandarin, all I could do was listen to the tone of the conversation. It didn't sound good. My wife presented her father's medical records. The issue was that they weren't recent. My wife convinced her to accept it. He is sick and could die any minute. He already has memory issues. I was well prepared. I brought everything and she checked everything, even her father's hukou and my son's passport and her green card. I didn't just hand over these to her; she requested them one by one. It ended with the woman telling my wife to fill out the online application for an appointment. She also had to fill out a statement stating her father's medical condition. We went back to the hotel and filled out the application online and made an appointment for mid-January. I believe that I previously mentioned that you have to lie and say your child doesn't have an American passport in order to get an appointment. That's absolutely true. The hotel attendant was gracious enough to print out the application for us. Off we went to the Visa Section, arriving a half hour before it closed. The poor security was worn out. He wasn't so friendly this time and gave us a hassle. But, he didn't make us give up all our stuff before going through the metal detector. We got our ticket and before we sat down, the woman excitedly called my wife by name. She was waiting for us. There was lots of conversation and she seemed to be correcting items on the application. Curiously, she had to enter our son's US passport number on the application. She asked for pictures for the application. I gave her a handful. They needed four or five. She asked my wife if she wanted expedited service, then she asked me. My wife says it was a trick question. I think she was just being kind. She told us that her supervisor had already approved it but we still had to go through an interview. A minute later we were called for an interview. It consisted of giving us a pink pickup slip. No questions. It looks good. We were told to come back tomorrow, Tuesday, between 14:00 and 14:30 to pick up the travel document. If all goes well, we will be on our way soon. As an aside, my wife says that our son will be able to stay up to three months. She asked why his stay was limited if they still considered him to be Chinese. I'm at a loss to answer.

Thanks for the link. At least someone else has been through it. Here's the latest in our only in China saga. My wife was miraculously able to get through to the visa center this morning. The woman said our case number was incorrect despite receiving a confirmation email. She told my wife the secret to getting an appointment. Where it asks if the child has a foreign passport, lie and say no. Otherwise, you will never get an appointment, she told her. Her father is in ill health and might die. She asked if there might be a way to expedite the appointment. She said that it opened a "green road". No appointment needed. All we have to do is walk in with the diagnosis. It's probably not that simple. We will see.

at http://www.china-embassy.org/chn/lszj/qz/t1234521.htm It seems to me that you need to IGNORE the travel agencies and what you're hearing on the phone. DON'T try to interpret the Nationality Law. GO to the embassy to apply for a VISA for your child. Let them tell you TO YOUR FACE while looking at your documentation if you need to apply for a travel document AND how to do so. The online procedure for a travel document is apparently not the right one for your situation. As far as I'm aware, no one else has done this - they have gone to their consulate or the embassy. Others have done this - it's simply a matter of finding the right hoops to jump through. Of course, they don't HAVE to issue either, but it SHOULD be possible, YOU need to do the legwork I'm not trying to interpret the National Law, but what I have learned of the National Law, it is consistent with what I have been told to do. The key word above is "settled". Settled can be interpreted as having a green card. At the time of birth, my wife did not have a green card; therefore, she was not settled. According to the Visa Center of the Chinese Embassy, if both parents aren't "settled" at the time of birth, the nationality is Chinese, even if the child is born in the US. I hear what you are saying. The law and how it is applied is not always consistent. It's an expensive proposition to fly a family of three to Washington, DC and stay in a hotel and hope that they will issue a visa or travel document. It flies in the face of the law and what the embassy has told us through its Visa Center in Washington, DC. The guy appeared to be a native English speaker. He was emphatic and apologetic. When I say Visa Center, I mean the official Chinese Embassy place that issues the visas and other official documents. I have contacted a second visa service company, the first being Oasis, without giving too many details other than he was born in China to a Chinese woman. No response yet. I did not believe Oasis. That is when I contacted the Embassy Visa Center that confirmed what I was told. Here is a link to the visa applications: http://www.china-embassy.org/eng/visas/hrsq/ One can choose any visa. It's all the same. If I choose an "L" visa and go to the requirements, Step 5 reads: 5. If the applicant is a child born in the U. S. to a Chinese parent, the visa requirements are different. Please click to see detailed info. I realize that my child wasn't born in the US; nevertheless, if you follow the link, you will see the following information. Child born in the U. S. to a Chinese Parent According to the Nationality Law of the People's Republic of China, any person born abroad whose parents are both Chinese nationals or one of whose parents is a Chinese national shall have Chinese nationality. The child will be eligible for a Chinese Travel Document (Click to check how to apply for a PRC Travel Document). The Law also provides that a person whose parents are both Chinese nationals and have both settled abroad (obtained U.S Green Card), or one of whose parents is a Chinese national and has settled abroad(obtained U.S Green Card), and who has acquired foreign nationality at birth shall not have Chinese nationality. The child will be eligible for a Chinese visa. Below are the documents required for visa applications: It still looks good. But, if you follow the link to how to apply for a PRC Travel Document, you will see the following: A child born in the United States, with either or both parents being Chinese citizens, and when the child is born, neither or both of the Chinese citizens of the parents have obtained the US " green card " or permanent residency in other countries.　　 　　The mixed situation of Chinese and foreign children born in China is the same as above. 　 　 　　Children of Chinese descent who apply to the above situation should apply for a travel permit to apply for a return to China. If it is not applicable, you should apply for a visa to apply for a return to China (see here for visa procedures for going to China ). 　 The key is the statement "The mixed situation of Chinese and foreign children born in China is the same as above." That is our situation. That is what I am officially being told. My wife was not settled at the time of birth. Everywhere I read on the internet says that it is good for two years. Over the phone, I was told that it was good for 18 years. Perhaps he said or meant that it was good until he was 18 years old.

He seemed to say--and maybe I misunderstood--that the Exit and Entry Permit effectively renounced citizenship. I'm told it takes four months to a year. Of course, that might be from outside of China. Or, maybe, it still may take that long but they gave them the Exit and Entry Permit. They have to issue a certificate renouncing citizenship. He didn't show that. We didn't have any trouble getting the permit other than having to go to my wife's hometown and asking a relative at the PSB or police station to provide the fake documents stating he had lived there for two years. Going to the PSB in my wife's hometown isn't an option at the moment. My son can't travel to China. I suppose my wife could go by herself as long as it didn't require my son's presence. The whole point was to go to China during the Christmas vacation. Looks like we missed that opportunity. In any case, my wife made some progress this morning. The website is https://ppt.mfa.gov.cn/appo/. She started by applying for an appointment. It's an 11-step process, and in the end, you don't get an appointment. It collected the information to fill out the information for the travel document. It's confusing because you start out following the application for a Chinese passport. My wife's error was in choosing his current ID. She selected passport and entered his US passport information, which it rejected. This time around, she selected no document. She got to step 6 and it requested a picture. She uploaded and sized the picture, then it promptly rejected the information. She had to go back a step or two and say that he was applying for a Chinese passport. Somewhere along the way, she did have to enter his US passport information. She had to say that he was from the Han group and supply her father's Hukou information, although my son is not on a Hukou. Somewhere before the end, we received an email from the embassy with the credentials for checking the status. In the end, it is not unlike the application for a US visa for a Chinese passport. You print out the application with a cover sheet showing a 2-d barcode with all the information and a regular barcode identifier. You must take that to the appointment. After all that, still no appointment or any information on how to establish an appointment. When my wife was able to talk to them, they told her nothing was available until January. I assume that means we can't just show up. When we try to check the status with the credentials emailed to us, it doesn't work. That is the next huddle. Maybe it just takes time.

This is how it's done for U.S. citizens - you may hear different stories from citizens of other countries, such as Great Britain. The exit visas, like I've said, are an acknowledgment of the dual citizenship of the child. Thanks for the follow-up. It might come in handy if we arrive in China and then try to leave again if they give us a problem. The embassy seems a little pricky about calling it a visa. They don't issue visas to Chinese citizens. They corrected me telling that it is an Exit and Entry Permit. It is good for one exit and one entry within three months. I watched the video again. They seemed to think that the Exit and Entry Permit was tantamount to renouncing their child's Chinese citizenship. That doesn't appear to be true. They were going back to China after a month. They wouldn't have seen a problem (unless they didn't bring the permit) because the permit is good for one entry. I wonder if they have tried to exit again. I also wonder if they were able to get a Chinese visa in her American passport. I'll research their videos. Just to reiterate, it is a similar issue if the child is born in the US if the Chinese spouse doesn't have a green card at the time of birth. The child is considered Chinese by the Chinese government. A friend told my wife that she got an "L" visa for her daughter three years ago and advised us to apply for an "L" visa. I looked on the embassy website. The conditions are the same; you must apply for a travel document. I did see where if your child renounces his citizenship, a sixty-day "L" visa is the only visa they will issue. I was originally trying to get a 180-day Q2 visa for both of us. I received a 90 day Q2 visa. From my point of view, it is no different than an "L" visa.

Thanks again, Randy. Yeah. Looks like it is just one page. My wife should be able to fill it out. If not, I can do it with Google translate.

The Entry/Exit visa should allow return to China and apply to renounce citizenship. Yes, they CAN put you through the wringer - try to get out of that loop as soon as you can. It's was only good for about three months. He's been here for a year.

must be done at his mother's PSB Entry & Exit Bureau in China My understanding is that it can be done in the US. It is just a matter of filing the paperwork. Perhaps we have to appear before the embassy or visa center. That was part of the problem getting him out of Chinese. She had to go the PSB in her hometown and prove that he had lived there for two years, which he had not.

I would like to mention that there is another way. He can renounce his Chinese citizenship. A parent can do it for him. The only problem is that it can take months up to a year and it is not guaranteed to work.

Thanks for your response, Randy. Entry/Exit permit doesn't provide any additional information. "Who told you you need a Travel Document?" Oasis Travel, which operates out of the same building as the Chinese Visa Center and is the preferred visa service, told me when I used them to acquire a visa. I confirmed it with the Visa Center and my wife has confirmed it with some of her friends. If you check the Chinese Embassy website, it says that it applies to children born in the US. But, if you read further, it says it applies to children born in China. It's true; no doubt. "You can try a different visa agency, or go the Consulate yourself. It may not be necessary, since your child has already traveled on his American passport." It's quite clear at this point. I have verified it with another visa service. The visa service had his passport as well as his Entry/Exit visa. "If you don't have the citizenship renunciation, show the Exit Visa when applying for the visa." I did. And once I have an appointment, I will have to show it to the Visa Center as well as his CRBA AND his Chinese birth certificate. My problem is making the appointment.

Hello, Everyone! It's been a long time. Has anyone had to apply for a travel document to enter China from the US? I was under the impression that once one had a US passport all one had to do is apply for a visa. That is not the case for my Chinese-born son. The same applies to children born in the US if at least one parent is Chinese and has not established residence. It's an effort to prevent dual citizenship. In the above case, the child is considered a Chinese citizen and therefore cannot be issued a visa. The child cannot be issued a Chinese passport because he has a US passport. The travel document gets around the dilemma. The problem is that the family has to apply in person at the visa center, in our case, Washington, DC. In order to schedule an interview, an appointment has to be made online. It's all in Chinese. My wife has made three attempts, each time resulting in a three-day timeout. She's getting frustrated. Is there anyone who has gone through the process who could describe it is such detail that I could use Google translate to get through it? Thanks in advance.

My Husband and I are living in Shanghai .

I admit to stealing some adjectives here: Passionate Hot-tempered Impetuous Amorous Loving Romantic (in a classical sense) Blunt (regarding some things) Indirect (regarding their own needs) Prideful Clever Adventurous (in some things) More stubborn that a mule It's all about her Obsessed with germs Obsessed with health Believes Chinese doctors are gods Obsessed with high heels (she jogs in them and wears them to the gym. Think she's short.) Conservative (in some things) Eats twice as much Eats more fruit in a month than I do all year Likes to sleep Some things she is not: Frugal Responsible Traditional (although she claims to be) Conservative (in some things)

They're dreaming, if they think this doesn't violate FCC rules. Cordless phones, bluetooth, car FM transmitters, and the like are all regulated by the FCC. A quick look indicates the company doesn't even have an experimental license to operate such a device.

I had 3 loosely bound folders, plus an accordion style folder with everything labeled and organized. I tried to organize everything in such a way that my fiancee couldn't make a mistake or fail to give them some documents. Mrs. Yang pretty much threw all my organization efforts way. She knew the order in which the documents would be requested. Some are requested up front, others come during the interview. I wouldn't hard bind anything and I definitely would not recommend putting everything in one binder. An accordion style binder is best. That way it can easily be reorganized, if necessary.

Housing prices are so out of line with reality, the housing market is likely to take tumble at some point. Couple that with the government toying with the idea of implementing property taxes. If that happens, people won't be able to hold on to two or three houses or more. Also, the government plans to implement index futures to the stock market in a few months. If done wisely, it might help stabilize the market; if dominated by speculators, if could make the fall worse. If the stock market crashes, so will the housing market and the economy. It is built out of a house of cards. There have always been doomsayers. It's all a matter of timing and it is extremely difficult to predict the reversal of a trend. They'll eventually be correct. It's like the guy who goes into the auto parts store and says his car won't start. The sales guy says, "It's your battery." The guy says, "No, I'm out of gas and I need a gas can." The same happens the the next year. This time it was the distributor cap (do those still exits?). The next time it was something else. Finally, the guy comes in again and says, "My car won't start." The sales guy says once again, "It's your battery." The guy replies, "You're right. I need a battery." The sales guy proudly says, "Told ya!" It's a safe prediction to say economy will crash. The trick is knowing when.

A letter explaining where the income source dose sound like a good idea. However, if I were in their position and someone tipped me off that no income taxes were filed for more than 10 years and there was substantial income and claimed no taxes were due, I would be more inclined to scrutinize the application. I'm sure everything is true, but it raises doubt, IMHO. On the other hand, if I read the letter only explaining the income source then looked at the incomes tax transcripts and everything looked normal, I probably wouldn't think much about it. Then again, I may be thinking too logically. This is GUZ. Dose that make sense?

I wish you the best of luck. IMHO, I wouldn't give them any rope to hang you by. Everything you say may be true, but it probably opens it up to more scrutiny. Sometimes the less said the better when you are dealing with the government. JMHO.

We ended up shipping 3 boxes by China Post. We were able to stuff up to 20 Kg's per box for 400 RMB or so. We shipped two one day and another one the next. The last one arrived first about a month later. Another arrived a month or so later with the first box arriving shortly after.

The broken link is actually, the Medical Examination Forms (DS-2054,DS-3030, DS3025, DS-3026) bullet item under the K-1/K-2 Appointment Packet (¡°Packet 4¡±) section of http://guangzhou.usembassy-china.org.cn/fo...and_packets.htm Why wouldn't this form be needed? By the way, the source you quoted is for the USCIS, not State Department. Civil surgeon forms are for adjustment of status, right? I am just getting ready for the interview. I can confirm that the file is corrupt. The forms are needed but will be supplied by the hospital performing the medical exam. I could email you the form file I downloaded earlier in the year, if you like. There is really nothing you can fill out at this stage.

Sorry to hear about yours troubles. I've been there and know what it's like. I looked at the DHL tracking site. It appeared to me that the closest shipment to the time the package was supposed to go out was October 1. It was delivered to the Consulate on December 01. It took right at a month before GUZ acknowledged receipt and said the P3 was sent (which meant it was in the system to be sent) in our case. The actual P3 was received 9 days later. The timing seems to be too quick and, with the holidays, it wouldn't surprise that if it doesn't take until January. Hopefully, DOS was correct the first time and the P3 is on the way. Keep calling.

I've been following this closely for a while, since we may be purchasing a place in China. The government is limiting foreign investment. You can't convert more than $50,000 in a year to RMB, but there are ways around it. It's scary, but then again, if you compare housing prices in Shanghai to New York, they're not that bad. You can rent at bargain prices. Rent has nothing to do with the costs of the apartment. We rented a nice place in Shanghai for 3,100 RMB a month. The apartments sell for 1.4 million RMB. People--ordinary people--are buying and renting out for what they can because they know the prices will continue to go up. As new apartments go up, speculators buy them. They might rent out an unfinished apartment to two or three families. They are just waiting for the opportunity to sell. The second hand market is always more expensive than buying from the builder. It could all come crashing down. It won't be just the fat cats that get hurt, if it happens. There are a lot of ordinary people that play the game. My wife's best friend has 3 apartments in Shanghai. She has done well. She teaches at a college at makes around 3,300 RMB a month, I am told. Her husband teaches at the same place and makes much more, but, even if he makes twice a much, they will be in a pickle if they can't ride out the storm. Here's a couple excerpts from a recent article that shows the arrogance of some of the Chinese leaders. Top 10 Darndest Things Officials Said in 2009 "Wang Aimin, mayor of Langfang of Hebei province, issued a slogan to attract investment to the real estate industry." 'He said, "Real estate is a good industry to invest in and we will offset all the losses of the developers who come to invest - by providing free land as compensation."' ============ After luxury houses were built in a region intended for affordable housing in Zhengzhou, Henan province, journalists interviewed local official Lu Jun, on June 17th. "You are a mouthpiece for the party (CPC) or the people?" he asked. Lu's remark shocked the journalist and the public. It implied that the ruling party has interests at odds with those of the people. Lu was suspended from his post and remains at home.

At the suggest of someone here, my wife and I tried Pingo at 1.2 cents a minutes. My wife occasionally had trouble with Skype. I still have Skype and I can now send text messages, but, as far as calling goes, Pingo is better quality. Plus, I loaded an application from Pingo on my cell phone and now all long distance calls are automatically routed through Pingo. When I signed up for Pingo, I put $20 on it and Pingo gave me $10. It goes a long way. It is easier, IMHO, to get the history out of Skype than Pingo, it that is a concern.

I wouldn't worry about it. I suspect they are used to it. There were so many discrepancies with my wife's information that caused me to worry. Her birth date was off by 3 years. The family has 2 hukou's--who knows why. Her father purposely gave her the wrong one the first time around. One shows the real age of her father and the other shows him much older. There were so many inconsistencies in the paper work we submitted that I am surprised that no questions arose. Dates and times just don't seem to matter as much in China.

The survival of the planet by pollution or over-crowding is not at stake and never could be. Assuming we are capable, if we ever do too much harm to the earth, we will simply be wiped out by our host. The good earth is quite capable of taking care of itself. We are here only temporary. We will be wiped out some day, whether by our own hands or by an external event. It is only a matter of time. If we don't find another host, we will be wiped out as a species. The earth, meanwhile, will continue to exist for millions of year until some cataclysmic event occurs. Even then, it will exist in another form.