SirLancelot

Hi. I understand the "does not understand" part, but I don't understand the part about not believing you. Do you mean she thinks you're only being modest/humble about your financial picture? Or that she truly believes you're wealthy, but that you're simply trying to hide your money/assets from her? As almost everyone has suggested, you need to be very honest with her. Disclose, disclose, disclose! Otherwise it could be disastrous once she gets here and find out your financial situation is less than she imagined. Good luck.

Here's a disturbing piece of news that transpired a couple of years ago: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nati..._niagara30.html http://zonaeuropa.com/20040729_11.jpg http://zonaeuropa.com/20040729_12.jpg http://zonaeuropa.com/20040729_13.jpg http://zonaeuropa.com/20040729_7.jpg Given this "anecdotal" evidence, these words below seem ironic, don't they? Clearly Zhao Yan doesn't think so. Imagine if this is what awaits your SO as she arrives at her POE into the US.

While the incidents in China you cite are certainly disturbing, I don't think it necessarily follows that Chinese society is "extremely cold and selfish." I don't know if you meant that to be such a broad generalization. If so, I would have to disagree. As for the job our culture does in looking out for those in trouble? I agree that we may do a better job than others, but I'm not so sure that bar is all that high. It's obviously a slippery slope to pick isolated incidents in any culture and use them to paint a true picture of that entire culture. And I'm not saying that you're trying to do that. I guess I'm just saying that for every sad act of human indifference we can find in China, we can probably find a thousand more of human kindness. And for every good samaritan we can find here in the US, we can probably find a thousand people who pass by without a second glance. Someone else could probably switch the names of the two countries in my example and make a valid point as well. In the end, I think it's just very difficult to compare two such diverse cultures when it comes to something like their relative compassion. Gotta back up Dave on this. For every one anecdote ILS writes, I can write 100 counter examples of local Chinese being extra generous to laoweis when visiting China. It's 100% accepted by all mainlander Chinese that Chinese people treat laoweis--especially white laowies--exceptionally well when they visit China. They are apt to help laoweis much more so than their own compatriots, simply because Chinese people don't want to portray themselves as rude people to foreigners. It's extremely rare to hear cases such as the situation that ILS posted. It's much more common to see and read about situations where random passerbys help a laowei who is lost or in need of assistance when in China. But I do agree that Chinese people are not very friendly towards their fellow compatriots. The culture is such that one is very kind to ones own friends and family/relatives, but not very courteous to strangers. Certainly Mao did play a part in this but even before Mao there was this "clannish" attitude.

LIB, what's your feeling towards this? For me personally, I'd be a little pissed. It's almost as if they're teasing you.

Very fascinating OP-ED piece. I found it very interested indeed. I don't agree with everything that's stated in this OP-ED piece, but nevertheless I found the opinion and analysis quite thought-provoking.

Holy shite! Jim, I had NO idea you were this technical! Nice! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XeroBank_Browser I use XeroBank Browser when I need to circumvent detection. It use to be called TorPark. Here's a BBC article on TorPark. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/5363230.stm

Yes, you can do it. It's playful, affectionate flirtation. I'm sure all of the men on here have done it in private with their SOs from time to time and they didn't even realize it. Women can do it in public as well, but men would only do it in private. It would be very strange to see a guy "so jiao" to his SO in public, especially around other men.

You're right Larry. I should be more cautious. YYP, nice story. That's a great adventure. I did something like that when I went to Guilin to teach in 2002-03, but Guilin is not quite as rural as your little village in XinJiang. Still, many of my students did not have hot water in their dorms. Every night at 6pm until 6:10 pm, they all take their hot bottle thermos to stock up on hot water. If they miss that time slot, they're shit out of luck for hot water until the next night. They bunk 7-8 to a room. It was an eye opener for me. Of course then I went to Shanghai to spend Chinese New Years (2003) and saw a completely different lifestyle for some. 16,000rmb spent one night on a big KTV party with lots of 16 year old Scotch. The juxtaposition of living standards is just so extreme in China.

Laudable goals. People will just have to work at it a bit to really achieve these ideals.

First you land Wendy, now you're off the hook for any AOS interview? You damn lucky son of a gun! Nice job Juette! Congrats!

Another happy customer. Congrats and have a safe flight back!

Very interesting. May we inquire about the purpose of your trip to XinJiang province? Was it to visit your SO? Not too many visitors visiting XinJiang province back in 2001. That's certainly a very adventurous trip.

I asked her and she said she had hot water in her bathroom to take a shower with but no hot water at the kitchen sink. Of course, I don't know. I never really thought about it! Is it like that in China? She's been here for four years. TY99, it's crazy how drastic a difference China's own standard of living can be. In the poorer western inland provinces of China, there will definitely be places where they don't have hot water on demand; for that matter, they don't even have enough clean running water into the homes. On the other hand, in rich cities such as Shanghai, Beijing, HangZhou and the like, you have people with astounding wealth, where some homes are worth millions of USD. I know Chinese people in SH who spend what you probably make in a month on one night of ritzy KTV partying. I also know poor students from GuangXi whose parents couldn't even afford their 4000rmb yearly tuition. (This may sound normal to Americans where many parents don't pay for--or can't afford--their children's college tuition, but it's unheard of in China where parents sacrifice and save everything for their children's college education.) It's a very diverse set of population. Bottom line though, the "poor" class of the US still has it infinitely better than the truly "poor" class of China. There's no comparison. But there's an ever growing middle class in China who have almost all the amenities of the western world, including flat panel TVs, DVDs, computers/laptops and Internet, cell phones, AC, fridge, microwave, hot water, etc... It's not easy to generalize about the Chinese standard of living as it's so dramatically different between regions and between the rural countryside and the urban metropolises.

Here's one that no one has mentioned: Macadamia nuts made in Hawaii. It's becoming popular in China. It's called "Hawaii nut" in China. You can bring roasted versions and chocolate versions.

Yes and no. Yes they're public civil service, but no coffee break. They'd have tea breaks.

Our says: STATE OF CALIFORNIA CERTIFICATION OF VITAL RECORD LICENSE AND CERTIFICATE OF MARRIAGE at the very bottom it says: STATE OF CALIFORNIA DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH SERVICES OFFICE OF STATE REGISTRAR

In my county, the marriage license automagically becomes the marriage certificate once it's been signed and recorded. The only distinction between a license and certificate is that one is signed and recorded. Otherwise it's the same document. However, there is also a memorabilia "marriage certificate" that is given to you at the time the wedding is performed. That is given to the couple as a keep-sake. That is different from the official certified copy of the marriage certificate (really a signed and recorded marriage license). Oh interesting. My wife just dug up our "License and Certificate of Marriage". The title of the document is License and Certificate of Marriage. Haha.. That's why it's indeed a License before the signature and recording, but once it's recorded and signed, it becomes a Certificate.

Interesting. Different states do seem to do it differently. In CA, one applies for the marriage license before the actual date of marriage. On the date of the ceremony, the presiding officer/minister signs the license and that license becomes the official written record which will be recorded and kept at the County Registrars Offices. We do receive a memorabilia marriage "certificate" which has no legal validity, but it's a cute keep-sake. One can only obtain certified copies of the original marriage license as the original is forever kept at the Registrars office. One is never able to obtain the original marriage license.

It depends on the citizen's activity within the party. The US consulate wouldn't give a spy a visa or anyone considered a threat to national security. That's a bit brash, I know, but it is exactly what they look out for considering today's heightened level of security. The consulate is only doing their job by adhering to the law. This in turn makes it difficult for some visa applicants. I can't disagree with that TY_99. I don't think anyone is going to argue that the US government should freely admit spys from any nation. But I think the criteria should be to limit access to "spies" and not "CCP membership" itself. I'm not sure if all Chinese spies have to be CCP members. Perhaps. It's interesting to note that on the law books one does NOT have to be a member of the CCP to be a member of the Chinese People Congress. In fact, there is at least one member of the People's Congress who is NOT a member of the CCP. Most likely a token gesture, but still it's interesting to note that not 100% of the People's Congress are CCP members. I'm definitely with you on denying visas to spies though.

I'll support Mike on this. There is more awareness of American and Western culture in China but it's definitely on a more superficial level. It is not a true or deep understanding at all. But it's better than our understanding of China here, which mostly consist of images of Guilin hills and peasant farmers or the commie "Red Army" in TianAnMen Square massacring their own people. I think most Americans will be quite surprised if told, sometimes this year, China overtakes Germany as the world's 3rd largest economy as calculated with GDP figures, behind the US and Japan.

That is true. I have to agree with that.

there are jobs you can only get if you are member. Agreed. Of the 5% that are allowed to join I would guess that probably only 5% do it because of ideology. I can't find stats to support that or refute that, so I'll just let the statement stand on it's own. The basis of the waiver is if you joined because of employment and not ideology. I agree with this. So from a very pragmatic point of view, if my only choice is to say I joined the CCP due to mandatory employment requirements and not for ideological reasons, in order to be granted a waiver, then I know what I would say to obtain the waiver. One is really not given much of a choice to give an honest answer if one's objective is to obtain a waiver. If one was able to state that for ideological reasons they joined the CCP and one was still able to obtain the waiver, then I think we'd get a better picture of the true ratio. But as it is now, practically, one is only able to give one reason if one wants to obtain an immigration visa. I'm not defending the CCP. It's a fact that the overwhelming majority of Americans hate the CCP or Communists as we're taught to hate the commies--be they Soviets, North Korean, Cuban or Chinese--from the day we enter elementary school. But when one falls in love with a person who turns out to be a real "commie" then it seems one must find a way to justify that the "real" commie must have been forced or brainwashed to be a commie, instead of voluntarily believed in the cause or actively sought membership. Having taught English to college level students in Guilin, I was exposed first hand to 280 students from all over China. There are in fact some very nationalistic and patriotic Chinese students who very much believe in the Communist cause and sincerely joined or want to join the CCP because of ideological reasons--the fringe benefits help of course. I even engaged in some heated discussions with a few of those students during a couple of my classes. Grant, many students did not care one way or the other--at least they didn't say much in class--but the cause is not completely lost.

I think you continue to believe registering for CCP membership is like registering for the Republican or Democrat party in the USA. It works NOTHING like what you've described above. You don't simply say I want to be CCP member and you're suddenly a CCP member. It's EXCLUSIVE! 5% of Chinese belong to the CCP. You're vetted! You're checked! The process takes a while and a committee decides whether you're accepted or not. Most people are not accepted by the party. The boss used her? How? By asking her become a member of the CCP, where she only benefits? The boss of her company doesn't even have the power to grant her membership into the party. Membership acceptance is discussed and debated by a special committee. There's a hell of a lot more people who want CCP membership than not so there's no need from above to prod anyone to accept CCP membership. You're arguing about a process which you don't understand at all. Before meeting you or wanting to emigrate to the US, her life in China is better by being in the CCP than not. If you don't want to accept that fact, fine. But don't try to argue about something you don't understand. For the purpose of trying to obtain an immigration visa to the US, having a CCP membership will be a liability, but for the purpose of living in China, being a CCP member is a benefit. It's an asset, not a liability. No one in China who is a member thinks its a liability. Everyone thinks its an asset. Only Americans think it's bad to be a CCP member. There are CCP members who don't agree with all that the party stands for, to be sure, but certainly all CCP members realize the advantage of being a CCP member in China. They may disagree with some ideas of the CCP but Chinese people are pragmatic if nothing else and they fully realize how being a CCP member will benefit them.

Ok Joanne. I can agree with this. CCP membership is definitely a requirement for certain jobs. I fully concur. As I've stated earlier, I further believe GUZ should not hold CCP membership against Chinese citizens at all.

Ok, I went back and re-read the entire thread again. I grant you that no one specifically used the actual word "forced" but if you re-read the entire thread, I think honestly you have to admit the inference from several posts/posters was that the government somehow forces everyone to join the CCP if they wanted any kind of job. Bottom line is that only 5% of the populous are currently members of the CCP. If any of your spouses/SO were or are lucky enough to be a member of the CCP, it only helps their lives in China. GUZ has nothing to do with a Chinese person's life when in China. Only when the Chinese person wants to immigrate to the US does GUZ become an issue. Again, I'm going to submit that at the time any one is offered a CCP membership, they eagerly embrace the offer, rather than some on here have made it sound, as if people timidly and apprehensively accept the membership with fear and trepidation. Dave wrote: Dave, I appreciate your comments. I agree with you that they should be able to take a job without having to worry about the visa process. The problem is, I think in all circumstances, the visa applicants obtain their jobs long before they applied for a US immigration visa. At the time of their membership to the CCP, I believe they sincerely wanted it. It's only much later that their CCP membership is considered a deficit for US immigration visa processing. This is why I think it's disingenuous to claim that they were forced to accept the CCP membership, because at the time they accepted CCP membership, they were quite eager to accept it. Likewise, I appreciate your comments over anti-China sentiments. I don't like unnecessary anti-Chinese sentiments, but I'm all for criticism of the Chinese government when it's valid. I have a lot of criticism for China myself. But on this issue, I think it's just disingenuous for people to blame this issue on the CCP. A Chinese person can only benefit from being in the CCP in China. There is no loss. Only as it relates to US immigration matters will a CCP membership be suddenly considered a liability. I will tell you this. I know people who have turned down CCP membership because they knew they would eventually emigrate to the US. For those people, I don't think they're disingenuous. I applaud their integrity. For the rest who benefited before they knew they'd emigrate by joining the CCP and then complain afterwards only when they learn it affects their chances of obtaining an immigration visa, that is disingenuous. In the end, Carl has already said that almost everyone--if not all--eventually overcome BLUE due to CCP membership. So it's not a huge problem, just a little delay before the eventual visa is issued.