SirLancelot

Wow, this is very interesting to read. From an American perspective, I can actually she her points. But from a Chinese perspective, I can't believe how wrong she is about everything. Children living with grandparents at some point in their upbringing is completely the norm. There are millions of migrant working couples who leave their poor rural village for big cities--such as Beijing, ShenZhen and Shanghai--to work. The care of the child is placed with grandparents at the village. The parents only get to come back once a year during Spring Festival. Obviously this is not an enviable situation--even for the Chinese--but it's the practical reality. Moving her child to the US is always considered a good thing with regards to education. I can't seriously imagine any Chinese person saying it's a negative thing to get an American college education. One quote from her that has more validity, IMO, was: what sort of woman endangers her child by exposing her to a strange man This concern is a little more legit in that Chinese divorce rate is still extremely low as compared to the US--especially the rural areas of China. It's not at all clear what the general viewpoint is within China on this concern. It could be argued that she's doing a disservice to the child by uprooting the child from her own culture and country but when mitigated with the opportunity of an American college education, it could still ultimately be seen as a positive. Good luck griz326. I'm glad to see you're taking the time to sincerely and introspectively ponder all the ramifications. It's important to do so, as donahso pointed out.

Interesting interview. Thanks for sharing Joanne.

Hey Dave, does this mean you're back to terra firma in the US? Welcome back. KP, congrats on your SO's successful interview. May I inquire what region of China she's from?

Interesting. Can the USC petitioner be the designated appointee? That is to say, can Zach bring the requested documents to the overcome appointment? Would it make a difference for GUZ to see that the USC petitioner had traveled such a long ways to bring the requested documents?

yixuan, this is such great news! It's wonderful to read. I know you were a bit anxious before but now you can fully relax! Congrats!

A huge and hearty CONGRATULATIONS to you and Christine!! Well done! And the pink for Shanghai ladies streak continues. Have a safe trip back to the States next week.

Hey Dave, I hope all went well. Your SO should have had her interview by now. Here's to hoping she received PINK already! I'm sure you're having a great time in HK/SZ/GZ. Have a safe trip back!

I was going to post some comments but after seeing this comment from Eunice, I think it's going to be difficult to get my point across as she contradicts what I wanted to say. I think Chinese households are very different when it comes to raising children than American households. I don't want to say which is better as both households offer something in their own right. I've never had children, so I won't comment as if I had, but I have been a child myself. Historical Chinese culture--and in fact most Asian cultures--do not advocate the supportive, touchy feely, lovey dovey affirmation kind of child upbringing that is fairly common of American middle class families. The Asian parent rarely, if ever, says "I love you". "You're doing great. You tried your best and that's all that matters." All these are not the normal phrases one hears in a Chinese household in China, nor frankly in Chinese American households. While it's not overtly advocated that Chinese parents should call their children stupid or lazy, it happens often and is indeed a tactic used by parents to guilt a child into doing better. I'm sure scientific studies can be done to see if it indeed improves grade performance or not but empirical and anecdotal evidence clearly show that Chinese and Chinese American students in the US do extremely well in primary and secondary schools. I can assure you that most of those kids didn't come from households where the parents kept on telling their kids they loved them. It's not that Chinese parents don't love their kids any less than their counterpart American parents, but that love is conveyed differently. For any Sino-American marriage with children involved, there's going to be a lot of arguing about how to raise the children. The cultures are so diametrically different with regards to how children are raised. Again, I'm not saying one is better than the other, but I'm sure most on here think the American way of raising children is the better way but I'm equally sure the Chinese SO will strongly believe the Chinese way of raising children is better for their education and career. I can say with a certain amount of assurance that a child raised the Chinese way will do better in school--at least with regards to performance scores and standardized tests--and get into good colleges/universities, but their childhood and teen years won't be as fun filled or enjoyable as a comparable child raised with the American way. The Chinese child is expected to succeed in school and education and to sacrifice everything else during the pursuit of education. There is immense pressure. To be sure, there are some American households who raise their children in this manner as well, but only some. In Chinese households, it's almost universal. I personally don't think it's good to call a child lazy or stupid--as it does impact the child's self-esteem--but overwhelming empirical evidence suggests to me that it works in Chinese households with regards to pressuring children to do well in school. I kind of liken it to army/marine boot camp. I would hate to be called all those foul names by the drill sergeant but the Dept. of Defense continues on with this method of indoctrination. Why? Because it seems to work. How come we don't have hippies with peace pipes training our armed forces?

Yes Tony, you're right. I specifically made mention of this back in post #36 of this thread. http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?...st&p=342536 If the money is really a request to purchase a house, then it's more common. But $30,000USD used specifically as a bride price is not common.

Jeez I hope so, I think its just frustrating as it seems we are just a file to them, not real people. They seem completly indifferent to improving the system and for some strange reason seem to think that leaving petitions in boxes at USCIS for months or in warehouse in China for months is in someway a acceptable way to treat people. Somehow I believe if came in to my ED with chest pain,or after a big car crash, or a stroke, they would expect a bit better service. It is not that hard to collect and crunch data. They are getting big money from fees and taxes, time to vamp up their systems I think. IMHO Think of it this way Rob. You and your fellow nurses and doctors (let's say a total staff of 15) suddenly have 10,000 patients come in all at one time because a big bomb blew up in a football stadium. 15 staff accommodating 10,000 patients, all of whom think their own case is the most important. What can you do? Even if you triage, you still have 10,000 people waiting in line. That, in essence, is USCIS and GUZ. So many applicants and petitioners, so little resources to handle them all. Nevertheless, I understand what you're saying. We've ALL been through this before. Every single one of us had to wait. Some a little longer than others, but we all had to wait. We all bitched as well. Eventually, you'll have your SO by your side and then it'll all be a passing memory. Maybe it's like giving birth. It's unbearable at the time, but afterwards one looks back with fond memories of the pain.

I just discussed this with my wife over pizza and she said $30,000USD is insane. 30,000RMB would be quite adequate to show them respect for their culture and custom. Of course, if you want to give $30,000USD, that's entirely up to you.

You bring up a very good point. The US version and China's version of the wedding banquet--with regards to who pays for it--are diametrically opposed. In China, it is the groom's side who generally pays for the wedding banquet. In the US, traditionally it has been the bride's side. Of course that's changing now a days--many couples with decent income are paying for the event themselves--in both China and the US. Also, keep in mind that in the past in China, the groom did not give the bride an engagement ring. So the money an American saves from buying his fiancee an engagement ring can ostensibly be used towards paying a bride price if need be.

$30,000USD? Am I reading this correctly? Not 30,000RMB? That's an outrageous number. That's about 225,000RMB. This is not normal. The ONLY exception when it would be normal is if the parents are really asking that you purchase a house in China for either your SO or themselves. The house purchase is not that unusual, but to ask for a bride price of 225,000RMB is very unusual. I'm not saying completely unheard of, but quite unusual. I can see 30,000RMB, but not $30,000USD. SinoJim said: Jim, I'd like to clarify that China didn't really have dowry giving as a custom. There might have been some isolated region or certain minority groups who gave dowry to the groom families but as a whole, it was not really practiced. India did practice that--and may still do--but China mostly practiced Bride Price giving. In my previous post in this thread, I was trying to clarify the two terms used: bride price and dowry. I wasn't trying to claim that China practiced both offerings.

As Joshua pointed out above and as I've posted in the past on this subject, the use of the word dowry is completely incorrect as it's been and is being used by most. A dowry is paid by the bride's family to the groom's family. That is why you were initially so surprised about the groom paying the bride's family. In China, the practice when done, is to offer a Bride Price to the bride's parents. As some have pointed out, it's regional but mostly it comes down to the economic class of the family. In the rural areas, you'll find this tradition still in practice even today. In ultra modern metropolises--and especially richer families--it would be insulting to even suggest offering a Bride Price. Best thing to do is to ask discreetly--if at all. Otherwise just let your SO or her family make a request.

I've been on NanJing Road too many times. Have you worn that Tang jacket since you've come back? Nope, but I might just go get it out and look at it since we're talking about it! I'll be right back!... Halloween is approaching. Perhaps you can wear it then.

I've been on NanJing Road too many times. Have you worn that Tang jacket since you've come back?

Sorry. Wasn't trying to tear apart your wonderful experience. I just wanted to say that YangShou (especially West St.) has been touted by so many (not just on CFL) and I feel it's very artificial. I don't believe people are getting a true sense of China by visiting YangShou, especially West St. That's very cool. Sounds like a much more authentic experience than eating at Hard Rock Cafe on West St.

If there is one city I would love to move to in my life it would be Shenzhen. It is in the Guangdong province next to Hong Kong. All the modern parts of American life with the beauty of China. David, it makes me wonder what places you've visited in China. Have you tried QingDao? DaLian? HangZhou? Dennis, I've been to YangShou a few times. It is indeed very scenic and nice but it's not real. Or at least a big part of YangShou is not real. West Street is completely fake. It's basically a watering hole for European, Australian/New Zealander, and North American backpackers. It doesn't depict anything of real China. (I did appreciate getting to eat an Australian Shepperd's Pie there. I went to YangShou from Guilin whenever I needed some cheap Western food, as opposed to more expensive Western food offered in Guilin 4 star hotels.) I suppose it's no different than so many other tourist traps all over China which cater to the backpacking Western crowd. I hear it's changing and being transformed into a more upscale place attracting a lot more local Chinese tourists. LiJiang in Yunnan is being terraformed as well. More and more Chinese tourists have discovered that gem and are massively flocking to LiJiang. Anyone whose interested in going should go soon before it's terraformed even more into a tourist trap. As for me personally, to pick one place in China would be difficult. It's like asking what's my favorite place in America. There are just too many and they each have different reasons as to why I like them. But I will name one place which I do like a lot, which have not been mentioned much--or at all--on CFL: XiaMen in Fujian province. Great little--at least by Chinese standards--coastal city right across Taiwan. The city is very clean and the standard of living is quite high--having been chosen as one of the original Special Economic Zones by Deng. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/Xiamen.jpg There is a small island, Gulangyu Island, which is part of Xiamen, that is a wonderful place to visit for the day. It's a little bit like Catalina Island in that no one can drive a gas vehicle. Only bikes and electric (golf cart) vehicles allowed on the island. http://www.amoymagic.com/mainIsle.jpg http://earth.esrin.esa.it/dragon/photos/hotel.jpg I wouldn't mind living in XiaMen.

DavidZ, I agree with you probably 99% of the time, but on this I have to disagree. I understand what you're saying above. It's actually quite philosophical and many times I apply what you say above, but the other side of me believes that action is necessary sometimes. If Caucasian Americans didn't join the African Americans and other minorities during the Civil Rights movement, I don't believe the US would be what it is today. Minorities alone could not have effected all the change that took place during and after the Civil Rights movement. There are certain times when the situation requires action as a response--not necessarily physical force or acrimonious verbal assaults--rather than silence or non-response which ostensibly may be viewed as quiet acceptance or agreement. I believe that if you don't confront someone when they're talking or behaving like a racist, that it'll perpetuate this type of behavior from that person. He or she will consider the non-objection as agreement with what he or she said or did. I think of Switzerland during WW2. Their neutrality during WW2 does not make them peaceful by-standers. On the contrary, I think of them as quiet co-conspirators of Nazi Germany. Sometimes one has to take a stance. An overt response is necessary. Bitting one's tongue and keeping quiet is not appropriate in all situations in my opinion. If I have mis-interpreted what you've said, please correct me. Just my two cents worth. Minister wrote: . But I don't think it's you that you should be concerned about. It's your Chinese SO you need to be concerned about. It's much more of an offensive insult to her than to you, as the object of ridicule is not really you, but your Chinese SO. This is something that will definitely create resentment from your SO towards you. If she perceives that you don't care--as in it's no big deal if your friend makes fun of her ethnicity--you'll have problems. Chinese people realize they'll have to deal with racism--that's a given for all Chinese immigrants to the US--but they will not tolerate their own SOs quiet acceptance of or indifference to racism towards Chinese. I can almost guarantee that your relationship/marriage will suffer in the long run--and probably the short run--if you don't champion her honor and dignity in such situations. Just my two cents worth.

Happy to be vote #249. Jia You!

Oh, I see. Haven't had to do that. She doesn't get a lot of homework, but what she does get, she does on her own. She does ask me questions from time to time but have never handed me a homework sheet to fill out for her.

My wife started going to ESL classes about three weeks ago. In fact she goes to two of them. One in the morning, 9-noon, and another one on another campus in the afternoon 12:30 - 4pm. Both are advance level but she says the morning one is harder than the afternoon. I will disclose that my wife did study English as her major in college so I fully expected her to place in the advance level classes but she does need more practice speaking English as oppose to book knowledge of English. With these two classes, she's getting the practice she needs. She really likes the classes, not only because of learning to speak English better, but she's learning lots of things from all cultures over the world. There are students from many different countries and she's learning about their cultures first hand. She wasn't expecting that but is really enjoying that aspect. pkfops wrote: I often feel guilty for "cutting her off". I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but I think I have an idea. My wife will be saying a sentence in English and half way through the sentence she'll make a grammatical mistake. I interrupt to correct her mistake before I forget. Is this what you mean? If so, I'm guilty of that. And yes, it does disturb the flow of what she's trying to say and at times it'll put her off. If I do it too often in a conversation, she'll just stop the conversation.

Yes, her hogging the left lane if she's not going to go fast will surely prompt some roadrage from other drivers. It's definitely better for her own safety to keep to the right lanes if you wants to go slow. Regarding EAD, I think the exact thing happened to LostinBlue. Yimi wrote: Yimi, it's not that big of a deal when calling from home, but it gets to be a huge hassle if you need to call from work--when your wife won't be right next to you. But I've also been able to speak with USCIS when my wife is beside me. Good luck to us both!

Hmm, very interesting. I did not know of this story to begin with until this thread, and certainly not the details you've described Tony. Indeed sounds typical of Chinese police and guanxi. On the other hand, aren't you in a position to directly help and affect change, as you're a lawyer stationed in China? Why not get out of corporate law and help all these countless number of innocents who need your defense? One could argue that by helping the "corporations", you're in fact helping to perpetuate the suffering of the helpless. But I won't argue for that position.

Interesting. My wife showed me these exact same images but from another Chinese website--no English captions--a while back. I'm glad to see someone translated the captions to English and posted the images again. Many of those image are just so sad. It makes me cry. The photos of the young poor (18+, I don't mean 5 years olds) don't bother me as much as the photos of old folks begging on the streets. I just don't think it's right for any society--be it China or US--to have senior citizens begging out on the streets. It just isn't right. I suppose that bothers me as much as it bothers many others to see a 10 year old working in a sweat shop.