A Mafan

I think there are just too many variations based on the differing interests of the people involved. Ask your wife. But probably the best thing you can do is arrange lots of sightseeing activities. And *always* ask if the tour/museum/even has a headset with Chinese translation for them, or a Chinese language pamphlet.

The key is for them to give plenty of reasons and evidence that they WILL return to china when theirvisa expires: property ownership, culture, family connections, pets, etc.

I, too, was impressed with the appropriateness of the title.

Adding new technology maintains and increases capability. But it doesn't repair metal fatigue. The aircraft were overdesigned, absolutely. But I flew on some KC-135s 10 years ago...and even then, at the end of every mission, they would radio in what broke during the mission. It wasn't a matter of "if", it was a matter of "how many different things". The race on the ground wasn't to get the aircraft to normal condition, it was a race to get it air-worthy so it could take off on time. This was 10 years ago. And this is on aircraft that had already been through a refurbishing depot. The next generation 767 refueler was killed 10 years ago because we would waste money just leasing them. The price Beoing put on them was probably overpaying. But even overpaying and "wasting" money on leasing would have saved money we throw down a hole maintaining 50-year-old aircraft. Bottom line: just because our military kicks ass, even with broken down equipment doesn't mean having to make do with broken down equipment is okay.

Talking about CVN 65 Enterprise which was commissioned 1961, not the Ike CVN 69 which was commissioned 1977 But yes, the air-force is flying aircraft older that the Enterprise, most notably the B-52, and C-130, but they do not have to contend with operating in a hostile environment like the ocean, the Enterprise is an extremely complex machine wit parts that when break, have to be manufactured from scratch because there are no spare parts for some of the things on it. The Enterprise was so expensive to build that the next nuclear carrier was not commissioned until 14 years later when the Nimitz (CVN 68) was commissioned 1975. (CV 66 America and CV 67 JFK were conventional oil burners that were decommissioned well before the Enterprise) CVN 79 will be named JFK, perhaps CVN 80 will be named the Enterprise. I'm sorry, yeah: the Enterprise. We are flying 60 year old bombers and refueling aircraft, racking up more than a trillion dollars of debt every year without cutting any discretionary spending at all... ...except for the military. The military starting taking budget cuts last year. To the best of my understanding, nothing else in the govt has. Ya gotta love the priorities in DC.

And the USAF still uses bombers and refueling aircraft older than the Eisenhower...

Many grocery stores have a "clearance" area for fruits and vegetables. My wife sometimes buys those. If you eat them right away, they can still be pretty good, and often for less than half the price.

Bobby brown has a great deal to answer for. Now, is it worse because it was Whitney and not some nameless whore he got hooked on drugs? No. But it makes it more vivid. Drugs suck y'all. I'm not okay with legalization, even though it is clear that illegalization isn't cutting it...at least not as it is done currently. But Whitney's problem was the availability all people would have, post-legalization.

The whole process is amazing! Kudos to you for building a guitar. I've always wished I could build a good acoustic.

I know almost nothing about the underground illegal culture. To me, the different perspectives are interesting and useful, even when in contradiction. I take it as a given that there is an element of the blind men and the elephant going on, but all comments are still taken for what they a worth....which is still quite a bit to an ignorant person like me

Haha, that is awesome.... I suppose you are right..... Though if my wife is like that, I have not seen it yet..... Still early though... Sometimes you gotta go for the cheap laugh, right? Different assumptions arising from different cultures...Chinese people aren't as comfortable with the debt load we accept as normal. So most Chinese wives want to get out of debt as quickly as possible, and are willing to work to bring that about. But it is also true that once your income/debt situation reaches the point where they feel safe or secure, then they arent going to push you to an early grave just for money. And then, it is still (and always will be) true that there are always differing personalities and styles and situations. Your situation is such that your wife doesnt push for money. My wife has never worked in the US either.

Yeah, a Chinese woman wanting more money, you never see that! (sorry, forgive my snark please! I couldn't resist!)

Can't seem to embed, so just follow through. If that doesn't work, search YouTube for "China's Got Talent Cutest little Chinese girl"

1) what is the purpose of marriage? 婚姻的基本目的是什么？ To extend/grow the family, and to build a secure, financially-comfortable life together. Note: security is the point, and the needs of the family. The husband provides stability and income, and she supplies family management skills and the baby. 为了家，为了扩大或者延长你的家，为了父母和自己生孩子，跟一个人建立一个安全幸福的生活。注意：安全第一，保证给家人他们需要的（孝顺爸妈，养孩子）。总的来说，丈夫提供了稳定的收入，老婆照顾家， 安排钱，生了孩子。(Translating into Chinese, I modified it slightly...here is the literal translation of the Chinese: for the family, to expand and extend the family, to have a baby for yourself and your parents, to establish a secure, fortunate life with someone. Note: Security is most important, guaranteeing the needs of the family are met: showing respect to parents and raising a child. Generally speaking, the husband provides stable income, the wife takes care of the household, arranges finances, and gives birth to the baby) 2) What is a happy marriage? 什么是幸福的婚姻？ When they have enough money, and when the husband indulges her moods and emotions (including, and probably especially, anger) Note: the husband is supposed to be above needing emotional support, and is supposed to understand her moodiness, temper, and sharp tongue. And she expects you to understand that because all the men she knew/saw in China certainly understood that expectation for men, regardless of to what degree they fulfilled it. 有了足够多钱，丈夫让了老婆， 哄了她的脾气。 注意:男人不应该像女人一样需要安慰，另外应该懂老婆的情绪，脾气，担心，等。然后，中国的男人都懂这个任务，但是当然有了不愿意或者不能实现的男人。(the last sentence is literally: Chinese men all understand this duty, but of course there are some who are unwilling or unable to carry it out) 3) What is a good marriage? 什么是好的婚姻？ When they have enough money and there are no threats to the marriage (no infidelity, no mistresses, no pining for another woman) and financial security, and both spouses show love/respect to both sets of parents-in-law. 有了足够多收入，没有什么威胁婚姻的事（比如：丈夫没有二奶，没有前妻，没有渴望别的女人），收入是安全的，配偶很尊敬你的父母，甚至他们老的那天也愿意照顾。 The point of highlighting the difference between a good marriage and a happy marriage is that a good marriage is when all the woman's non-personal security needs are met: enough money to take care of children, money and willingness to take care of her parents as they age, and no threats to that security. Most women will take that and be satisfied, but not truly happy. At least they know they are taking care of their parents and children, and maybe can find their own happiness in status and/or material things like a Lexus, an LV bag, good anti-aging cosmetics, etc. But a happy marriage is pretty much the same thing plus emotional indulgence from her husband. Now, the fact that men's needs aren't mentioned isn't because they aren't important, but in my observation of women, I've never met one who lacked confidence in her ability to make her husband happy. So it isn't an issue, because it is assumed that box is already checked. ...which is revealing in itself, no? But I'd like to emphasize: I don't expect my answers to be more than 60% correct. I am hoping to learn something from where and how my suggested answers are wrong or incomplete.

Although often misquoted, the full quote is, "If ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise." So, sure, if everything is going great, maybe there is no reason to worry about it. As long as the manna falls from heaven, there's no reason to worry about where it comes from and how... But what about when ignorance isn't bliss? That's where these topics come in. For the life of me, I cannot understand why it should bother anyone if there are people who prefer to understand, and to discuss with others to deepen understanding.

Talk with her about marriage, and see how much she agrees with these ideas: 1) what is the purpose of marriage? To extend/grow the family, and to build a secure, financially-comfortable life together. Note: security is the point, and the needs of the family. The husband provides stability and income, and she supplies family management skills and the baby. 2) What is a happy marriage? When they have enough money, and when the husband indulges her moods and emotions (including, and probably especially, anger) Note: the husband is supposed to be above needing emotional support, and is supposed to understand her moodiness, temper, and sharp tongue. And she expects you to understand that because all the men she knew/saw in China certainly understood that expectation for men, regardless of to what degree they fulfilled it. 3) What is a good marriage? When they have enough money and there are no threats to the marriage (no infidelity, no mistresses, no pining for another woman) and financial security, and both spouses show love/respect to both sets of parents-in-law. Be sure and post any of the ways your wife doesn't agree with them. I don't expect 100% agreement on any of them...I do think there is something to be learned in the discussion of the differences.

Yep. I understand the same thing from the Chinese women I've known: marriage is bigger than just finding someone you want to spend the rest of your life with. It is a partnership, including a duty of having kids, taking care of your parents, building a life with a certain amount of material comfort and security.

People are different from each other: absolutely true. There are significant cultural differences between the US and China: also absolutely true. There are some Chinese people who take to US culture like a duck to water: absolutely true. There are some Chinese people who don't immediately feel fully comfortable in US culture: also absolutely true...and worth trying to figure out how/why, because maybe some of those problems can be resolved once they are understood. So it is worthwhile to try and figure out the way people raised in China tend to react and respond to situations involving someone raised in the US. It is a complex situation, to be sure. There are many things that influence someone's personality and the way they see the world... China is absolutely more concerned with family and less individualistic than the US. Anyone who claims differently is a fool. But that should not be taken to indicate there aren't individualistic Chinese or family-oriented Americans. Rather than being something that the simple-minded seem to take as putting people in a box, it is a continuum, with Chinese tending to be located at one point on the spectrum, and Americans tending to fall at another point on the spectrum. Chinese people characterize the nature of different generations by decades: People born after 1960 (implied: but only up to 1970) experienced a different situation than those born after 1970, who were again different from those born after 1980, etc. Again, it should be a no-brainer that the Great Leap Forward, the Cultural Revolution, the power struggles after Mao's death, Deng's opening up of China, the Tian-an Men Square Massacre, the growth of income, material wealth, the housing bubble, etc, would have significant impacts on people, depending on their situation...but also a no-brainer that people in similar situations will be impacted in a similar manner. There is value in considering, identifying, and discussing these issues. If not, why even bother participating in a bulletin board?

Either way. I think your reactions are dead on. Part of the problem is that I dont think Chinese people think about these sort of topics the way many Americans do. what I'm hoping is to uncover the western assumption of nearly pure individual expectations and judgments, in stark contrast to the Chinese family oriented approach to this problem set. which is one of the reasons I think US-Sino relationships are often so stormy. But I'll expand that thought later, or in another thread, too.

I have no firm notion of what answers you'll get, but try asking your spouse these questions, then report back the answers you get: What is the purpose of marriage? (Why did your spouse want to get married in the first place) What is a happy marriage? (What makes a Chinese spouse happy in a marriage) What is a good marriage? (What are the basics of a marriage that everyone would/should want) These also might be good questions to ask someone you are thinking about marrying...

Did she understand? I don't understand. I read the Wikipedia, and I see the humor, but not the meaning. What does "It needs more cowbell" mean ? In this case, it meant "To put a little more extra effort in, even if that effort is unappreciated by some."

I find that overly pessimistic. It requires about exactly the same level of dedication and immersion as it does for a Chinese person to learn to speak English. (or this may be what you meant) +1 I didn't start learning Chinese until I was 25. I became functionally fluent via the Defense Language Institute. But unused ability perishes quickly...many of my classmates had lost 90% of their ability within 3 years. There were times I wouldn't use conversational Chinese much for 6 months or a year at a time, and my ability would drop quickly. For me, the key was adding in listening to Chinese music as my main music entertainment. Maybe other people will have a different key aspect. I have been fully fluent (able to say pretty much anything I wanted, albeit with typical foreign accent and mistakes) since about 2006. Prior to that, I had always been able to get my point across, but there were often significant gaps that I needed the native speaker to help me bridge. My highest level of general knowledge ("book learning") in Chinese was probably around 2000-2001. I had taken my first trip to China in 1998, graduated from college with a Chinese degree in 1999, and was very active in a Chinese church from 1998 to 2001. I could recognize 3300 characters on sight at that point. But I still didn't know how to use all of it in speaking, and my understanding of slang and idiom was still pretty rudimentary. I have been to China 6 times...never longer than 6 weeks, sometimes as short as 3 days. Maybe a total of 6 months in China. - So how can I be fully fluent w/o an immersion in China?!? - So what made the different in 2006? The answers to both are linked. I think an "immersive environment" doesn't fully depend on location, but depends on communication of information. If you *must* use Chinese to communicate, your brain will work harder and learn more/faster than if you can switch to English anytime the going gets rough. In 2006, I had just spent a full year talking with Yatou via Skype, 1-4 hours every day. Since it was Skype, we didn't have facial expressions or body language to help us. It was all on the words. And while she sub-consciously simplified her language to help me, and didn't correct most of my poor grammar and pronunciation (unless particularly egregious), I also sub-consciously modeled her, and learned tons of new vocabulary in context. That may be the key right there. So while I wasn't in China, I was in an immersive environment as I talked with Yatou. Since her English was fairly poor, that immersive environment continued even after she came to the US...and then intensified every time her parents or brother and his wife visited. In contrast, when I was dating the Shanghai girl, her English was excellent, and while she was a good long-haired dictionary resource, my Chinese actually declined during that time. As it did in 2001 after I moved away from my Hawaii Chinese church and my ex- began using English more and more. I expect my Chinese will decline again after my parents-in-law leave, because my wife is frustrated with her limited ability to interact with English-speaking Americans (she's tougher on herself than she should be), so we'll force ourselves to use English more. But I'll keep it as strong as I can via Chinese novels, serials, and music. It does take an effort. It is best if you can make it a passionate hobby of yours. Then it won't seem like work. But it is completely doable.

I second this. 100% correct. You need to practice daily. I'm personally convinced that the program you use (pimsleur, rosetta stone, chinese pod) doesn't matter. What you need to do can be described as: Step 1: learn some extremely basic grammar vocabulary so that what you learn makes at least a little sense, i.e., there is a framework for your brain to associate new vocabulary and grammar Step 2a: load up your brain with as much raw material as you can Step 2b: review that raw material as much as possible Step 3: use what you have learned/memorized as much as possible, on a daily basis, in a natural language environment I think you satisfy step 1 after you can have an extremely basic conversation for 2 minutes (*not* memorized phrases, and not just "Hello, how are you?"/"I am fine, how are you?") Simultaneously, you need to work on: -understanding the basic pinyin system (so you immediately know how to pronounce zi, xi, and zhi, for example, and can hear the difference between ma1 ma2 ma3 and ma4) -understand the stroke order system so you can pick out a radical from an entire character and look it up in a dictionary (this is less important now with online dictionaries and especially optical character recognition capabilities of smart phones) But you don't have to master these two things to move to step 2 Step 2 is best done by daily drills. Make flash cards to review when you are stuck waiting in line, on the metro to work, or stuck in non-moving traffic, waiting in line at the bank/DMV/Apple store waiting for the new Apple product. Your flash cards should be developed according to character frequency, i.e., study the ones you are most likely to encounter first/most. You can find lists of the most common characters here: This site is great: http://www.yellowbridge.com/chinese/topchars.php First, they offer some hope that if you just fully learn 250 characters, you will recognize 57%-64% of what you encounter in any situation. Just 250 characters!!!! But second, they have a great flashcard/matching game that lets you choose character sets according to their frequency: http://www.yellowbridge.com/chinese/chinese-memory.php You need to play a certain character set in pairs: once to learn the pronunciation, once to learn the definition. That's kind of a pain, but it works. I've never used them, but here is the websites online flashcards: http://www.yellowbridge.com/chinese/flashcards.php Step 3 still requires daily practice! My favorite way to do it is to listen to Chinese music. You get to hear the words pronounced correctly, in context. I have learned a huge amount of usable vocabulary (especially for relationship issues) from Chinese songs. * But here's the overall problem: You will gravitate to the language that you have the best communication. You may try to deliberately speak Chinese, but the first time you struggle with a word and slip into English to get your point across, or she slips into English to help you understand her point, you will make it easier to slip into English the next time. So discipline is very, very important. If you decide to communicate only in Chinese on Tuesdays, say, then you must both be disciplined enough to make that stick. And when you can, immerse yourself in a Chinese environment. When you travel to China with her, get out and talk to street vendors on your own...or at the very least, have her let you take the lead in some communications, like ordering food or haggling a price. Fluency is difficult, and takes effort...but is well worth it. *two other helpful methods include watching television serials and reading Chinese novels. Both require determination and discipline. Even being fully fluent, I struggle with the first few pages of a book, or the first few episodes of a serial, because I haven't developed the context enough. By the time you are several pages into a book, you tend to encounter key vocabulary several times...it becomes almost a specific jargon that you can get the gist of. By the time you are several episodes into a serial, you get where the story is going and can predict better what they might say or do...plus you get used to that actors speaking style. So don't get discouraged if you start out taking several hours to read one paragraph because you are stopping to look up characters so much. And don't get discouraged if you take multiple hours to watch one episode of a serial because you have to pause and replay so many times to get what they are saying. The efforts will build on themselves and the speed will pick up. Plus, you will learn quite a bit about Chinese culture from television serials. Many of the best attempt to explain/explore issues facing a specific socio-economic group, like the upper-middle-class college graduates born between 1980-1990, or the same but those born between 1970-1980 (from the two you learn that like the US' Baby Boomers, Generation X, Generation Y, etc, China has the 70s kids, 80s kids, 90s kids: they separate them by decade, and there are specific societal reasons for that, and different life expectations and problems for each decade), or the problems of finding housing in the city during the housing boom. No doubt there will soon be a serial out explaining/exploring the bursting of the housing bubble.

Did she understand? Eventually. She got hung up on thinking the original statement was sarcasm. It didn't help that the statement was quoted for ironic effect. Language can be really fun when you pop the hood and tinker with its innards.

Here's one I actually did have to try to explain/describe in Chinese: "It needs more cowbell."