DMikeS4321

How about the father tells his son to get his head out of his posterior?? Can't blame the woman from what you've written here; the kid is plainly out of line. If any of my kids gave me that kind of ultimatum, I'd tell them it was on THEIR head, no one else's. I love my kids more than I love life itself, but that is just wrong.

I just spent a couple of hours reading a good chunk of the chinabounder blog. He's a good writer but full of crap. He obviously has a major league axe to grind with China and the Chinese government. I especially like the way he describes his prolific "conquests" and subsequent trivialization of women while decrying the oppression of same. Seems odd? Here's a guy who doesn't mind objectfiying women for his own pleasure but claims to have a big problem with the female "role" in Shanghai. Likewise, it's hard to buy into his "crusading" for sanctions against teachers who beat their female students to death. I'm left with the impression that he is only upset because the little girls were killed before they could grow up and be subjected to HIS "attentions". What a nutball. I can understand why so many Chinese hate him.

DMike, as you said it may not work for anyone, but you and your wife. Though it has some major truths to it. These are, what can you live with and what makes you both happy without compromising you or your wife to the breaking point. This is true, Big C, but I think, in my case, it stems from my previous failed marriages and the realization that I am SO lucky to have my wife. I just made a conscious decision to always honor her and see her in nothing but a positive light. Not that this is hard because, she IS perfect. I've simply made a major adjustment to the way I look at things; in my past, God help the woman who tried to correct me or blame me. In retrospect, I was a sick man, but now I'm well. The cure can be seen in my current avatar (she's the one on the left in the picture!! ). I AM the luckiest man in the world!!

I don't claim to be the expert you are but my experience has been different. Maybe it's just the people we associate with? I've never sensed the slightest bit of hostility and my Wife has never mentioned any such thing. None of our friends have, either. The feelings towards Japanese are a different thing. The only derogatory remarks I've heard among Chinese about lao wai have been about the Japanese. They are almost universally reviled from what I've seen and heard. Bruce Lee's second movie ("Fists of Fury" in Asia, renamed "Chinese Connection" in the West) has a line in it that would always bring Chinese viewers to their feet with applause and cheering when I lived in Asia. The scene shows Bruce Lee's character returning a challenge to a Japanese karate school and throwing a sign on the floor while proclaiming: "Chinese are NOT the sick men of Asia". The Japanese portrayed China in that light, even used that slogan, for over one hundred years. Far as I've seen, nothing we've done comes close, at least not in the minds of the common man. While I'm sure there are some urban elites who dislike the U.S., I've found most rural, small town and many urban people have a level of affection for Americans that I never expected. For example, more 'Ab-Loungers' were sold in less time in China than in any other country in the world, primarily because of the 'American Connection'. These sales were at full retail price, even after currency conversion. Another anecdote that I've posted elsewhere was about the KTV party I attended with a high level cigarette company exec. He had a company car and called it up after the birthday party thrown for my wife was breaking up. Now, understand, there were Mercedes Benz, BMW's, even a Rolls that came up before our friend's car. Nobody batted an eye, but... when Mr. Executive's car rolled up, everybody stopped and stared, I mean EVERYBODY. His car? An AMERICAN Buick. Not Chinese made, but American. I asked about it and he told me it was imported especially for the cigarette company president and that people always stopped and stared because it was a REAL American car. Everyone knows American cars are best, he told me, and he didn't tell me that in a way that would imply anything but pride. He REALLY likes Americans. Best Regards P.S. Nice dig about religion, Roger, but you are bucking the huge majority of mankind. Less than 20% of the population of the world claims no religious affiliation. You're out of step, my man, or maybe it's just that 'different drummer' you've been hearing.

Yup, that's what I'm saying. Read the first couple of chapter's of Churchill's history of WWII. He clearly takes that position, as do most other historians. None of that Hitler stuff would have happened. Not saying that we MADE Hitler be a madman, but we certainly layed the ground work for his accdeptance by the German people and his subsequent ascension to power. It was all based on petty rivalries between the European powers as they struggled to adapt to the end of the colonial era. Hitler appealed to the German psyche's 'need' for 'liebenstrom' (elbow room) and blamed the Jews for the completely oppressive nature of war reparations from WWI. The combination of those two issues, exacerbated by Western complicity in trying to limit Germany's ascension to status as a world power (as opposed to it's place as a regional power) made his pitch seem reasonable to many Germans. By the time most of Germany figured out what a nut Hitler was, it was far too late. The Allies from WWI couldn't have done a better job of promoting the rise of a madman ruler in Germany if they had tried.

This may seem stupid or simplistic, but... I have a rule; if something ever goes wrong, it's MY fault. We joke about it all the time, "Lao Gong's fault". I refuse to attach any negative feelings to anything my Wife does. This may not work for anyone but me, but in MY life, it is easier to just idolize her than not. Best Regards

Blame, censure, wrong, improper, injurious. 5 out of 6 by my count, Dave. Close enough for our purposes, I trust?

What he said....

Really? I agree that the West has contributed to China's problems over the years. But did the West really cause the starvations and civil wars? What about Mao? I'd say much suffering was caused by the West, but "most"? Dave, I've been warned, so I won't say much, but... the West played a BIG part in Mao's ascension to power. The West's abuse of China, something the U.S. was NOT a big part of, played a tremendous role in everything that has happened in China since the 1700's. In that sense, the West had an enormous influence. I think China's natural tendency is indeed to stay out of the internal arrairs of other countries, but they have probably hardened their position in that regard based on what happened to them. Best Regards Mike. I don't think there's any argument about China's tendencies and motives for them. I think we all agree on that. The real difference of opinion seems to be about whether celebrities can/should call on them to change. We'll have to agree to disagree on that and move on. I'm obviously no student of Chinese history and I'm not arguing your facts. But I'm having a hard time finding any info that shows how the West specifically had a big role in Mao's ascension to power. Do you have any links I can check out on that? Thanks. Dave Nothing specific, Dave, just the general abuse of China during the world's 'colonial' period. Opium War, the forced 99 year lease of Hong Kong, the trade enclaves. The resentment was so great, I think the Chinese still think about it. I was surprised to have one of my friends tell me that a big factor in the Chinese 'affection' for the U.S. is that we mostly paid silver for tea when the English were paying with opium or the proceeds from the opium trade. I had no idea. Once again, nothing specific, just the general historical background of the West in China. Yeah, I understand about the more "general" interference. But I'm not sure the West can be blamed specifically in Mao's ascension or the suffering that resulted. I mean wouldn't saying that the West is culpable in Mao's rise to power and what resulted from that be akin to saying that Europe/the Allies were culpable in Hitler's rise to power and the results from that? Ah yes, we WERE culpable. I think it's pretty common knowledge that the punitive nature of the French-forced reparations after WWI played a HUGE part in the weakening of Germany and subsequent rise of Hitler. Hitler was seen as a 'savior' by most Germans. By the time MOST Germans figured out what was happening, it was too late to do anything. P.S. Sorry, I was editing my last post while you were responding to it...

Really? I agree that the West has contributed to China's problems over the years. But did the West really cause the starvations and civil wars? What about Mao? I'd say much suffering was caused by the West, but "most"? Dave, I've been warned, so I won't say much, but... the West played a BIG part in Mao's ascension to power. The West's abuse of China, something the U.S. was NOT a big part of, played a tremendous role in everything that has happened in China since the 1700's. In that sense, the West had an enormous influence. I think China's natural tendency is indeed to stay out of the internal arrairs of other countries, but they have probably hardened their position in that regard based on what happened to them. Best Regards Mike. I don't think there's any argument about China's tendencies and motives for them. I think we all agree on that. The real difference of opinion seems to be about whether celebrities can/should call on them to change. We'll have to agree to disagree on that and move on. I'm obviously no student of Chinese history and I'm not arguing your facts. But I'm having a hard time finding any info that shows how the West specifically had a big role in Mao's ascension to power. Do you have any links I can check out on that? Thanks. Dave Nothing specific, Dave, just the general abuse of China during the world's 'colonial' period. Opium War, the forced 99 year lease of Hong Kong, the trade enclaves. The resentment was so great, I think the Chinese still think about it. I was surprised to have one of my friends tell me that a big factor in the Chinese 'affection' for the U.S. is that we mostly paid silver for tea when the English were paying with opium or the proceeds from the opium trade. I had no idea. Once again, nothing specific, just the general historical background of the West in China. As for celebrities, I generally don't care for the way we 'worship' people just because of their fame, whatever that fame is based on. I'm not sure George Clooney has any more of a handle on international issues than anyone else has; he is just listened to because he is rich and famous. So is Paris Hilton. Not a good reason to listen to someone (or, in fairness, to NOT listen to someone).

Really? I agree that the West has contributed to China's problems over the years. But did the West really cause the starvations and civil wars? What about Mao? I'd say much suffering was caused by the West, but "most"? Dave, I've been warned, so I won't say much, but... the West played a BIG part in Mao's ascension to power. The West's abuse of China, something the U.S. was NOT a big part of, played a tremendous role in everything that has happened in China since the 1700's. In that sense, the West had an enormous influence. I think China's natural tendency is indeed to stay out of the internal arrairs of other countries, but they have probably hardened their position in that regard based on what happened to them. Best Regards

I thought the tenor of the thread swerved pretty quickly into "something must be done, no matter what!" territory. And the UN is usually the next resort of the Something Must Be Done crowd. [shrug] But maybe I'm wrong this time. Nope, you're not wrong. I sensed this change in direction as well. As for Smitty, I didn't SAY he mentioned the U.N. Others did, but he didn't. I just thought I'd throw my comment in as a way of balancing his "we've bungled more than we've fixed in the past 50 years". His comment was off topic, but, now that he brought it up (and it passed Mod scrutiny).... I get damned tired of reading stuff like that. It's easy to say but hard to prove; who knows where the world would be right now if not for the U.S. There would be a lot less money in Africa for AIDS, a lot less food in starving countries, China wouldn't be as well off without our consumerism and neither would Germany or Japan, just to mention a few things. I put my rearend on the line for this country in a serious way and I don't like constantly hearing how badly we've screwed things up. I don't think we have and I'm sick of the criticism, especially when it comes from spoiled brats who live in a fantasy world and don't have a clue what we've done for the rest of humanity, i.e. George Clooney, many other rich celebrities, the politicians they front for and a good number of people who have come from our public school system in the past 40 years. That is why I don't care for their critiques of China; I don't think the critics have a clue. They are often wrong about the U.S. so I expect they probably know even less about other countries. It's their right to speak up, but it's my right to say they are self-centered, self-hating, guilt-ridden know-nothings. Best Regards

Perhaps, Smitty, but let's not even talk about the U.N.!

A-men, A-Mafan!!

As usual you make very strong points AM. But I do think you're last paragraph wraps things up a little too simply. Do you not think the non-Arabs who are the target of the Gov't/Jangaweed want their situation straightened out? Do you really think they have the ability/resources to straighten it out themselves? The vast majority of those victims are simple farmers/herders who have very little with which to defend themselves against the government-backed Jangaweed militias. Should the rest of the world continue to just sit by again and take your non-interventionist stance while ethnic cleansing takes place on a massive scale? Well, we COULD go in and insist on regime change.

Well, Dave, we KNOW what the problem is. It's the same one we are ALL facing around the world, in about 95% of all the conflicts out there. Why blame China? It's happening where China isn't even involved. I guess you could argue that this is the price the Chinese have to pay for being a world power now, but we still wouldn't be addressing the the real issue. It wasn't so long ago that China was 'third world'. They've done a good job of solving many of their own problems and have many more to come. Darfur isn't really one of them, is it? Our new president, whether it be Hillary Rodham Clinton, Barack Hussein Obama, John Sidney McCain or someone else, should make a top level visit to China a top priority, hopefully to discuss a joint strategy. Best get on board together now because neither China nor the U.S. can go it alone on this one. This isn't about the other conflicts, this is about Darfur only. Didn't say we should blame China. George Clooney didn't say we should blame China. The point he and many others is making is that very few countries have the kind of influence with the Sudanese government that China does. China is in this unique situation because of their EXTENSIVE business dealings with them. Agreed that the next president should make China a/the top priority foreign policy-wise. That president won't be in office til Jan. of '09. Can't hurt to try and nudge China to try to do something in the meantime. Especially when so many lives are at stake NOW. OK, nobody 'blames' China, but the implicit threat is that China's Olympics may be sullied if China doesn't 'do something' about Darfur. I don't see that they have any more responsibility than anyone else does. That's all I'm saying. First Spielberg, now Clooney. Who's next? Maybe 'blame' isn't the right word, but somebody is thinking China has some responsibility. My point is that these people are messing with something that is very, very important to China, a country that recently emerged from third world status. I think the level of insensitivity is extreme and I'm wondering why China is the target. Maybe pressuring some other entity that has more direct ties to the ongoing genocide/religious war would be more justified and more productive? Just a thought...

It's that ton of money.............. Also, Richard Gere is permanently banned from China for telling the truth....something that some people do not want to know anything about. In Richard Gere's case I thought it was more about hamsters?? Welcome to Candle...

Well, Dave, we KNOW what the problem is. It's the same one we are ALL facing around the world, in about 95% of all the conflicts out there. Why blame China? It's happening where China isn't even involved. I guess you could argue that this is the price the Chinese have to pay for being a world power now, but we still wouldn't be addressing the the real issue. It wasn't so long ago that China was 'third world'. They've done a good job of solving many of their own problems and have many more to come. Darfur isn't really one of them, is it? Our new president, whether it be Hillary Rodham Clinton, Barack Hussein Obama, John Sidney McCain or someone else, should make a top level visit to China a top priority, hopefully to discuss a joint strategy. Best get on board together now because neither China nor the U.S. can go it alone on this one.

Not a damned thing!!

George Clooney, another self-styled celebrity "expert".

Good Grief!! I'd rather WALK!!!!

I tried tried Pimsleur and I wish I had tried Rosetta Stone instead. I don't hear very well and I can't quite catch the subtle intonations, but then, I did pick Cantonese. I think it's harder than Mandarin but not as hard as Hakka, my wife's first language. Not too bright on my part. I would probably have the same problem with any program. I'm just looking for something easy but that's not possible, eh?

I would definitely keep it, Jay, for all the reasons in your first paragraph above.

Good points all. I would leave the business part to my Wife. She has experience with that. I would be the "Chief Instructor" and would use that position as a way to get over there. My Wife doesn't seem to think the regulation part would be too hard, but she doesn't know if the market is large enough. She should know, but I think there is room for something like this. Thanks for all the input.

Both. Looking for opinions, though, of how viable this business idea may be. Opinions of Chinese wives/fiances would be particularly valuable. I'm thinking more in terms of a 'business', not a job. I don't have the credentials necessary for a government certified or sanctioned position. I do have teaching experience in the private sector, having taught private seminars on real estate and mortgage finance for years. I think there is great demand for this, particularly amongst women looking for foreigners for love and marriage. My wife took classes and paid a small fortune, much more than was necessary in my opinion. There are probably parents who would supplement their children's school instruction with American English. My wife's niece is the top English student in her entire SCHOOL, but she lacks experience with spoken English, particularly Americanized English.