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Sorry about your bag being cut... And for my own stance on this: Bush shi bu hao. Bin Laden shi bu hao. They were good friends (Bush's Dad and Bin Laden). They are both people who seem to think that killing others is acceptable. I can understand why the person said that Bin Laden was hao, as when a person is repressed and only can hear one side (such as reading the US Media), they tend to react strongly the other way to establish balance. Yet, it is wrong. I am sorry that you had to experience this.

Thank you so much for your kinds words Paul! I too am shocked to have experienced such a thing here, but in the same sense, I am not shocked anymore to experience something positive anywhere in the world, so why not something negative anywhere as well. I am sorry that you had such a sad situation when you were a student here, and hope that we can do the best we can for as long as we are here. I will try to find some good stories from our experiences here over the next few months and relate them too. You have always been very thoughtful and helpful, and I appreciate your taking your time to relate your stories and experiences. Despite the negative effects that experience had on my it radically changed my outlook on race. I am extremely intolerant of racial slurs since. This has served me well since I later adopted a black daughter and an hispanic son. Wonderful!!! I am glad that a good end result came from your terrible experiences....

What I care about is when: 1. White police stop me when I am driving a car at 17 years old, only because I have a dark-skinned ethnic indian person in the car with me. the only reason they can give when I pus them is because they say they were concerned I was being held up. 2. Black police refuse to do anything in this incident. 3. White police try to arrest one of my father's co-workers (who is a NY State parolle officer), with the only end result being that they thought he was the criminal chasing after a victim (although his badge was clearly visible...but his skin color, being quite dark, was also visible). Mind you, no one seems to relate about the fact that this same person went on the next day to commit a murder in the city. It seems, I care about when the police, our people who are supposed to uphold our laws, act in any way possible to inflame the situation, most likely due to their own ignorance. This makes me very sad. I am so sad also for anyone who faces violence or hurt because of the color of their skin, their religion, or other things about them that they can not control (physical disability, etc.). But, there is a difference here. Rong is an innocent victim. I am an innocent victim. The person who did this, I even said, may have had some problems which effected her judgement. But the point of the matter is that it was a crime of hate, and that such, in a democratic or semi-representative government system, should be opposed as much as possible, by all people. Why did the crowd not do something? Why did the police not do something? And what can be done? This is what makes me sad...that people really have so many problems and are missing out on so much information, that they are capable of making such decisions. I feel that our system has failed...and for that I feel as much responsible... I agree with dan, things are headed the wrong way, and it is sad...

Thank you. Amber, you are right. Racism does exist in China, and everywhere else in the world. It is easy enough for me to point it out here, but I have seen it elsewhere too. I am glad that people are talking openly about the topic and that makes me feel reassured. However, I think that it will take some time to erase the negative results of this from her memory. I can only hope that we can grow from it and help others to realize the situation. From my experiences at least, people in some places in the world are more willing to be open, and that has made a large difference. I am glad to have found support here from some, and it has been very positive. Thank you.

Some of this is easy and some is tough: 1. your child is a US Citizen. As such, you will have to obtain a BIRTH CERTIFICATE and then use that to apply for a US PASSPORT, and then use that to obtain a CHINESE VISA. This will take some time, so best you do this immediately. 2. I am not sure of this, but she MAY HAVE TO HAVE A CHINESE PASSPORT REISSUED IN HER NEW NAME. She should contact the nearest Chinese consulate quickly and ask about this. This may not need to be done, just not sure. 3. Since you will not accompany your daughter, you will need to file some papers legally authorizing your non-US Citizen wife to take your US Citizen daughter out of the US, without your coming. It will likely be a lot of paperwork, but nothing too tough...I hope! Tell us how it goes.

Thank you so much for your kinds words Paul! I too am shocked to have experienced such a thing here, but in the same sense, I am not shocked anymore to experience something positive anywhere in the world, so why not something negative anywhere as well. I am sorry that you had such a sad situation when you were a student here, and hope that we can do the best we can for as long as we are here. I will try to find some good stories from our experiences here over the next few months and relate them too. You have always been very thoughtful and helpful, and I appreciate your taking your time to relate your stories and experiences.

I am really sad to hear of this happening in your life. I have had my father tell me stories, but it still makes it none the less shocking. I am glad however that you have been able to use your past experience to help to bring others up, rather than down. Thank you.

Thank you for your kind words. I too have hope that there are good people everywhere, and hope that they are the majority. I am not sure, but in my heart still know that there are many who are good in the world. I just wish that we could talk out and try to reach out to those who are in pain or frustration or otherwise holding anger. Since this may not be possible, at least your idea of embracing that there is good and that we are not alone is a first step to building up trust again. Thank you for your kind words.

Kim, I am so sorry to hear about Jet and what happened in the store. The story really brings tears to my eyes. Although Rong and I are both only 26 years old, each of us exchanged stories related to us by our parents of people treating them differently. My father, on the Ohio State campus, being accosted for being seen in public with a black lady (who he was not even dating) in the very early 1960's, and her father for the first time he came back to the city he was born in, after being forced to leave during the "time of Mao eg: cultural revolution" to do labor in the countryside for many years, and his being abused. When I was young people used to try to pound on me for being the devil for not being a Christain. It was very painful, and I always fought back with words (I stopped being violent after tearing out 2 full handfuls of hair from a girl who attacked me for not being Christain in 5th grade and then having both of us suspended for 3 days --- which in my case was later overturned on appeal 2 years later). However, no matter how much I would try, it would seem to help a few people on the sidelines to be stronger, but would always cause a much larger majority to harden their stance against me. Hence, I am glad that you were able to confront the man, but in a way which did not exacerbate the situation. I certainly hope that your daughter can talk with you about the situation more freely as she gets older and can be show the compassion that you have and that we can all offer. She did nothing wrong, and if possible, ending the cycle of violence at home, can always offer some new hopes to all, as well as her own health. At any rate, the best to you and many thanks for your understanding.

Thank you for your kind words. I certainly hope that that is all that it was, and telling such a thing to Rong has helped her to feel more comfortable. I am definitely glad that I have learned much and did not increase the tension at the site. I am worried, as is Rong, that such a thing may happen again, since if it is possible for there to be one deranged person, it is definitely possible for there to be more. And since racism is such a powerful force, for there to be more who may feel the same way. But at least we know we did nothing wrong and know that if we share this story, that someone else may be able to better deal with the future. Thanks again for your support and kind words!

Thank you Dan for your deep insights. You are very right that this horrifies me. I am worried that such a situation may occur again and be even worse. Yet we both knew that adaption to a different culture would be tough. And it is becoming even tougher as the more time I spend in academia, the more I seem to move away from the culture in the US (I think more of a result of the culture moving away from me, but likely some of my moving away from the path it had taken before). All I know is that everywhere we go, we will likely be different. But, we all need to draw strength and experiences from those around us. I guess that with all of the wonderful fortune that we have had so far, some may argue that balance calls for us to have some misadventures. I certainly hope that this is not the case, but I am glad that no one was hurt and hope that we can learn from this and can help others to prepare for any future encounters that they may have. I must work more, as you recommend, to teach tolerance. And it is disturbing, but it seems to be a very efficient way in which to run a Christain nation. As I have seen it, although I have been white, I have never been a good Christain. And this caused me much hardship when I was in high school more than a decade ago. I did not see such racism, but I am extrapolating. And again, the answer seems to be to teach tolerance and to help to open minds. That is why it is so difficult. I understand about freedom of speech and support it. But in the same sense, it can only work in an environment where people see words as a means of academic discourse...and when that level of education seems to fail, then it can only cause problems. This is what worries me. I am still an idealist at heart, as is Rong, and we were both badly hurt by this. I am glad that I knew for us to flee and to deal with the situation, rather than fight back, since fighting seems to only encourage more pain and confrontation. I am not sure if she knew that Rong was mainland Chinese, or if she just thought aah, all Asians are Chinese, etc. Such is the way with racism. However, your point is valid. The US made all Japanese scapegoats, including US Citizens, during WWII. Arabic people in the US have been recent scapegoats. I am worried about the day that seems to be looming when our loved ones and peers who are Asian or Chinese will be scapegoats. We are worried that this may be just the beginning. We certainly hope that it is not, but the entire situation worries us greatly... I am sorry for the pain that you have had to go through and would love any advice that people have to deal with the emotional results of the direct confrontation, as well as how to better work to diffuse such situations in the future. I still have hope, but if in a racially diverse community such as Cambridge, if this is tough, it causes me to loose hope... But I thank you for your stories and experiences and options for how to better work to improve the situation. I still hope as well that things can get better, although my hopes may seem dashed at the present.

Kim, Thank you for your message and your words. I certainly hope that it was only a person who was upset due to some recent hardship that she had faced (such as possibly being fired earlier on in the day). And it is really quite possible that such a situation, combined with racism, could have led to the situation that occurred. It is sad that such racism exists, and you are right, it exists in many places. However, just to know that it may be something which is not ingrained in the system brings peace of mind. And yet, to also realize that after all of these years of integration and education which focus on civil rights, that attitudes are still changing for the worse, scares us. What I am most concerned with now is to open dialogue and to help all of us to better understand the fact that as minorities, that we must work with our communities to raise awareness and to work against prejudice, wherever and whenever we can. If we can do so together, I think that we can be stronger, than if we stay apart. I thank you for your kind words and for your placing the situation into a possible context which makes it easier for me to swallow. Now, it will take much time for me to get Rong on board...but it is slowly going to happen.

And for summering, well, I would prefer Vietnam to Thailand -- less expensive, foreigners are treated better, people are nicer and less out to take your money. Both are equally beautiful! But, in reality, I am just dreaming...as we can not afford either location at the present time!!! But, to keep our eyes open and ears open, and prepared for a more compassionate, environmentally conscious future, one in which people matter and communities develop and one which does not first rotate around wealth, sounds like a good one to aim for. So, quite possibly, you may see us there!

I do not think that it is much like the 50's and 60's in the US, but it seems to be doing better so far than the US and the EU were doing at their same point in development. And the history and culture are wonderful, not to mention the food. We are not sure where we will go, but China is higher on our list than staying forever in the US...at least presently.

Hello all. I want to relate a story which just occurred. It has further resolved in my wife's mind that as soon as we are done with school, we are to leave the US, at least for the next few years, without returning, to reassess. In Cambridge MA (A relatively diverse city), as my wife and I were walking to a subway station, a dark skinned african american lady spat in my wife's face. She then proceeded to walk on about 10-15 meters and stopped. At this point, she hurled insults at us about the damn communist Chinese taking away all of the jobs from americans. She then continued to shout in unintelligible comments, as an attempt to fake Chinese and make further light of the system. She was egging my darling on to step forward and punch her (which would no longer be self defence under MA state law, because of how far away she went). I restrained my darling and helped to get her away, back to home, to clean up. To make the situation worse, I noticed that two african american police were watching the whole thing from across the street and were just waiting to pounce in and not to arrest the lady who committed the battery, but instead to arrest my wife if she were to go back and hit the lady back. Later, after being at home, I obtained an email from a witness to the incident, an ethnic Chinese, US Citizen, Professor from my university. I did not see him in the crowd, but there was a crowd around. It turns out that he thought we did well, given that unless we want to file a federal racial claims violation, that there was little that would happen. He said he filed a brief of the situation with the university police (who are mostly European american, or Asian american) and that they said it was not in their jurisdiction. And when he tried to file a brief with the city police, they said that everyone knows that the racial tension is not good, so if people want to vent, that the best thing to do is let ie be if it is not too serious. Naturally, she feels, and I agree, that if she was white and the officers were white, the lady would be arrested; if she was black and the offender was white, and the officers were black, the lady would be arrested. All we know is that racism is even more alive here in the US, since it seems to be codified into the very law enforcement and society that we have. As far as my wife sees it, since the US Government does not shut down the obvious prejudice being espoused by the New York Times (which this lady happened to be carrying a copy of) with respect to China, that they are at least partially responsible for these crimes of hate and of ignorance. What do people think? Is there some group willing to use federal anti-racism law to pursue an action against the police department here and the specific officers in such a case? Is it best to do as we have done so far, just get away, patch up the safety information, and hope that we can move on as quickly as possible, or some other approach in between? Thanks for your ideas...

Well, we have a different point of view on this one. Please see the new thread that I am posting in a few minutes...

Well, My wife and I already have a place to live in Qingdao (her hukou is from there). We also are strongly considering the following locations to move in the far future: However, it is important to note that IF YOUR SO CAN OBTAIN A CHINESE PERMENANT RESIDENT CARD, HE CAN LIVE IN YOUR CITY, since he can access all places that other Chinese Can access. LOOK INTO THIS OPTION! 1. xiamen (gulangyu) / Fujian. No cars are allowed here. Pretty buildings, and good weather. 2. pingyao / Shanxi. Nice history, homes, and potential to integrate into the chinese culture from the past and the present. 3. lijiang / Yunnan. Beautiful, clear skies, access to nice weather. 4. Yantai / Shandong. A lot like Qingdao, but with a little less access to culture. Still overall a nice place to live. We have more, so if you have any ideas, send me a PM and I can get back to you. I still recommend Qingdao most. If you want suggestions as to what district of Qingdao, contact me, as we know where the subway stations are in the process of being built, and hence which places will have a likely huge property value spike in the near future.

I do not think so. My young female (now wife) had no problem getting a tourist visa to visit Thailand, Vietnam, and other nations in SE Asia. In fact, to go to Thailand does not even require a visa to be issued before hand, and the same for Vietnam (if you cross by land). This was all on a not-so-large income. It just depends on where you want to go. It is getting easier for Chinese passport holders to travel abroad. But, if you want to live together in the US, this is a different story. If you want to travel to the EU nations, it makes life easier. And it allows travel to the US and Canada, which are nearly impossible to get into for any length of time w/o the green card. Just make him live back with you in China for as long as you live in the US/Canada. And good Luck!

I have visited Vietnam, for 1 month. And it is by far not enough. I went there before China, and so my perspective is a lot stronger in my mind. I find it and China the two most interesting Asian Nations so far (but I have not yet been to India). It offers all of the plusses of Thailand, with more, and without as many of the negatives. The food is wonderful, the natural areas are beautiful, the people are amazingly open and sincere, and the history is older than the rest of SE asia. I have so many stories, and pictures. If you want a sample plan of where to go and what to see, send me a PM. if anyone wants to organize an outting, chinese can get there very easily, and maybe a few of us can go together...if not, at least my wife and I will as soon as the travel documents come and winter is upon us (please be careful in the summer, as it was as hot as 42 some days I was there...yikes!).

So true, so true. But, I've had occasion to watch the ritual. The loose translation that follows is a figment of my imagination: You go in, browse, look at one particular item, and the salesperson immediately hovers. You put it back, and the salesperson brings out similar items. You ignore the salesperson. You find something that looks promising and check out the price tag (if there is one) and mumble something under your breath about how expensive it is, but you ask how much. The manager goes to the calculator and immediately knocks off 20%. You call the manager something, tell him/her that the goods aren't worth sh*t and start to storm out of the shop, all the while listening to the manager yelling something back at you. You leave the shop, start to walk away, but return and say something like you'd be willing to take this worthless piece of junk off their hands for what is now 60% (variable depending of the goods) off the tag price. As you do this, you start to point out all the flaws in the product - clothes having loose threads, a smudge on a bowl, etc.. If it's flawed in the least, you point it out. More heated exchanges go on, sometimes necessitating leaving the shop a second time. The manager now offers 50% (variable) off the tag, and you wait to let the manager continue - maybe he/she will go lower. You finally agree, buy the goods, and walk out, happy with the result. The manager will evetually smile after you are out of sight. Hey, good account. But you missed my favorite part: Threaten to stand outside the shop and tell everyone passing by that the owner is a louse and a liar and a cheater, unless they further reduce your price. Hehe. Well, it worked once for me (but the owner really was a louse and a cheater).

And if you go to Qingdao and need a place to live, send me a PM. My wife and I have a house sitting in a nice location (right near where a future subway line will be), surrounded by shops, and such. And since we are not in China right now, we could easily rent it out at a fair market price. It is a beautiful city, with fun things going on. If you want some info, get back to us as well.

I thought that GZ was not as bad as Bangkok or Ho Chi Minh City. Just be very careful of people who ride on motorcycles, the kids forced to beg on the streets (not because of them, but of their "parents" who are often there working with them and using them as distractions), and of looking well to do. Trust me in that a wealthy looking Chinese person will be a much larger target than a bu hao wen, mai yo chien, bie yao le, lao wai! However, if someone does get something from you, make as much noise as you can. The only time someone got close enough to me to get something (they took my camera bag, but the camera was still in my backpack. However, I did not know.), I started to yell and scream and chased after the person. We ran through a shopping mall (in Vietnam) and onto the street. After about 2 minutes, some shopkeepers started to help me (fearing that business would be lost) and a few minutes later, people tripped the guy and he came crashing to the ground. The police then were there in all of 2 seconds (this was once everyone realized I was a foreigner). In the end it was OK. They just made him say sorry to me in front of everyone, and let him go. Ok, so maybe running someone down in the US is not safe, but since these places do not have guns, if you can scare them for a few seconds, they may trip, or others may help. And if nothing else, fear of the police beating on them may make them think again...at least I would hope! But, it is a larger social problem, and hence I do not see it going away any time soon...and in a way, I feel sorry for many of the people forced into crime...

Why so long? Did she pay the extra fee (my darling's parents applied yesterday and will have it back next week, and this is for a first passport!)?

No, she does not need both. Her passport has the same information as the ID card imprinted into it, and under Chinese law, can be used instead of the ID card. However, if the passport is to expire in 6 months or less, then she WILL NEED a new one to enter into the US. In terms of when the new ID cards are being phased in, it seems a function of the Hukou. In Qingdao, you are required, when you go to renew your ID Card, to get a new one, but you do not need to suddenly get up and get a new one right now. And as long as your passport is valid, you do not need a new ID card. At least this is my understanding...but since I am not a lawyer versed in Chinese law, you may want to reconfirm this with someone else...

But do be careful of private businesses... many will try to hold your passport, not pay you money, etc. In these cases (and I have seen many) there is little resource that you have. Hence, a large government organization like a foreign embassy, or a government run university is often your safest way to go.