Financial dealings in China

[owenkrout]

A question about paying taxes came up in another thread. This started as an answer to that, but took on a life of its own and I decided to post it as part of the Culture Series. (ITS ALIVE! ITS ALIVE, EGOR!)

 

The biggest problem may be getting the earnings information from your former employer. My former employer was a Canadian, (I was even paid in Canadian dollars) and their reaction for a request for last years earnings was, you don't work here anymore, it is not our problem. This kind of attitude is common in China. Also, often the employer doesn't like to release any kind of financial information on an official statement. Reason? They are cheating the government blind on taxes they are paying. Accounting is truly an occult art in China with even government run businesses commonly paying in cash.

 

I actually got paid with a check by one of the places that I work for last month. First time I had ever seen a bank draft in China. It is an ordeal to cash a check, as it turns out. I should have known that was coming since the check was handed to me, two handed and with a slight bow, encased in a plastic sleeve. You must go to the Bank branch that it was written on to cash it and even then they look at it like it was some kind of endangered species that you had just killed.

 

We arrived at the main branch of the bank at 1100 after a half-hour bus ride. After 15 minutes of waiting and filling out paper work, they finally announced that I couldn't cash it there. We had to go to the branch of the same bank where the account is. My wife had never seen a check before in her life and so she did not know about that rule. While telling us this, the clerk was literally holding the check out away from herself between two fingers like we had handed her a little, smelly, dead animal.

 

Off to the branch bank. We arrived there at 1125. Luckily it was very close to the main branch and on the same bus route. It took until 1132, by their own clock, to get passed the guard at the elevator, (Why did we want to go up to the business floor? Oh, look, they have a check!) This is China, remember? At 1130 it is lunchtime. I am sure it was only because I am obviously one of the foreign devils, but one of the clerks, in a very irritated manner waved us over to her window. She takes our check, still in its plastic sleeve and examines it minutely. She then calls her supervisor who examines it minutely and asks, “What do I want them to do? Cash it?” “Yes, that was the idea I had in mind.” “Well, its lunchtime now, you will have to come back at 1400.” That is the standard lunch break, at least up here in the Northeast.

 

So we go to get something to eat and my wife does some shopping, spending a chunk of my money before I even manage to get it. Back to the bank.

 

We go through the routine with the guard at the elevators again. It’s really hard for him to be sure that I am the same person as before, you know. I really blend in with the crowd in Shenyang. Finally back to the same clerks window after much pushing and shoving by the cattle herd, all trying to get their business taken care of first. She once again examines the check minutely. Then she once again calls her supervisor over, and she examines it minutely. Once again she wants to know, “What we want to do with this thing?” Now getting exasperated, “I still want to cash it!”

 

She now slowly takes it out of its plastic wrapper and once again examines it minutely. She picks up the phone and calls somebody. We are then told to wait. She leaves with the check. Eventually, she comes back and picks up the phone again. She calls the school that issued the check and asks them if it is real. Finally with it well established what this piece of paper is and what I want to do with it clear, we get down to the routine paper trail. Now it needs to be endorsed. I sign it, in English even though it is made out to my Chinese name, because that is what the bank manager wants. Two people minutely examine my signature and ask what it says. “Its my name.” “Oh, you must write it clearly.” Turns out finally that they meant they wanted it printed. So I print my name. They examine that minutely.

 

Now they want to see my passport. I have been here long enough that I anticipated that one and had it ready. They examine that minutely. Not just the information page, but all the visa stamps as well including questions about when did I enter on that one and when did I leave? I point out the official red seals with dates right next to each one. Now they decide that the signature on the passport does not exactly match the one I just did. Now they are clearly the same to any Western eye, but since Chinese almost never see cursive writing, it usually confuses them. I was ready for that one too, having gone through it so much. That was five years ago, I have some arthritis, it is common for people’s handwriting to change slightly over the years. Eventually, I sign it again, trying hard to exactly duplicate the signature on the passport. This time, it passes.

 

Now we have to go to my bank to deposit the money. This was also a new concept to my wife when we first got married. She had always just dealt in cash and had never had a bank account. Of course I now make more in a month than she did in a year. Luckily, I now bank with the Merchants Bank. They are pretty painless to do business with, especially after I have been there a few times. Now they recognize me and are very helpful. Back when I was banking with the Bank of China, putting that money into my account would have been almost the reverse process of what I just went through to get the check cashed. Closing my account at the Bank of China took me three months before they would actually give me my money.

 

We finally arrived back home at 1600. It had taken us almost five hours to get that check cashed, the money in my account and to get back home. This is not atypical for China. It is common to waste the better part of a day on what would be a quick, routine matter in America.

[Eric&Yuhui]

my goodie owen !!

Talk about bank hardship.

I should never have left that visa card with Yuhui in Beijing last week... LOL

 

Then again, the girl is so responsible.. Makes me to want to buy her a 4 carats diamond...

[owenkrout]

Quick, La Diva, post a message on the 001 board! Yuhui has the credit card, make it public to the gals that Mark said he wanted to buy her a 4 carat diamond ring! She can just pick one out herself!

[Eric&Yuhui]

Quick, La Diva, post a message on the 001 board!  Yuhui has the credit card, make it public to the gals that Mark said he wanted to buy her a 4 carat diamond ring!  She can just pick one out herself!

she knows better :-) Like I said... she always ask.. Can we afford it ?? I go.. Yes honey... but just 4 carats OK ?

 

\Wait: MarK??????????? Yuhui !!!!!!!!!! Are you cheating on me with that no-good Mark fellow???

[Eric&Yuhui]

she has two actually.. love her so much even more when my statement shows up with NO new charges.. Bless her heart !

[owenkrout]

Sorry about that Eric. Marks sweetie had been talking to my wife on the phone and I was just as confused as usual. Not that this makes anymore sense.

 

Hey, I've been known to call my own brothers by the wrong name.

[Joseph-1]

she has two actually..  love her so much even more when my statement shows up with NO new charges.. Bless her heart !

Thats the way my girl is. She has a Visa Atm but never spends the first dime. After I insisted on a test, she withdrew 200 Yuan to check the card and make sure it works. Everything worked fine and the fee was very small.

[Eric&Yuhui]

she has two actually..  love her so much even more when my statement shows up with NO new charges.. Bless her heart !

Thats the way my girl is. She has a Visa Atm but never spends the first dime. After I insisted on a test, she withdrew 200 Yuan to check the card and make sure it works. Everything worked fine and the fee was very small.

joseph.. watch it.... they ARE GIRLZ after all.... You don't just change 3 billions years of evolution

[markimwaiting]

Owen,

I know the feeling about the banks and trying to get money.

I needed to cash about $1000 wirth of travelers checks in Shenyang before we wnt to GZ for the interview.

the small problem was. the recept had 1 check number on it and said 10- $100 dollars in sequencestarting with a certain check number.

well it took about 30 minutes to explain the sequence thing, but it all worked out.

[markimwaiting]

Quick, La Diva, post a message on the 001 board!  Yuhui has the credit card, make it public to the gals that Mark said he wanted to buy her a 4 carat diamond ring!  She can just pick one out herself!

My gal has a 6 karat ring.

have fun with the credit card Yuhui !!!!!!!

 

hehehehehehehehe

[Mick]

Sir Owen:

 

Oh how right you are my friend. I could relate many stories regarding the labored ordeals of trying to bank over here. Last year one of the other foreign teachers at our university, a Canadian woman, used to have to send money, via bank draft, back to Canada to pay her mortgage. My wife used to accompany her to the bank each month and it always took the entire morning to accomplish this seemingly simple act. I went with them once and was horrified beyond belief and the endless paperwork, checking, rechecking, etc. etc. It was made even more complicated because the Bank of China required that the funds be converted first from RMB to US dollars, then from US dollars to Canadian dollars. This was the first step in the process, but it could only begin after no less than four different bank officials reviewed the documents and information provided by the university. Then the passport and residency permit were examined, reexamined, and then examined again. The same process was repeated every month for ten months. You might think that after the first few months they would have just accepted this as normal as they should have known the woman and the process by then. No way. I have a lot of other stories but I would have to preface each one of them with Dave Barry's famous disclaimer, "I'm not making this up, honest!"

 

In your ongoing cultural series you might want to include an installment on mailing a package to the US. Now this has become somewhat easier with the advent of DHL in our city, but going through the China postal service is quite an ordeal. My first year down south I had to go from the Post Office to the PSB to obtain a permit to mail and children's books of butterfly pictures back to my daughter. The permit cost me 50RMB, five times the cost of the book.

 

Another event at the post office is briefly described here. I again wanted to mail a package to my daughter. I wanted to send it air mail so she could receive it by Christmas. We walked into the post office at 2PM. No one was there except a female clerk who was sound asleep behind the counter. Upon waking her up, she asked what we wanted. We explained our needs and were told:

 

"In order to mail the package to America, it's contents will have to be examined by the appropriate official."

 

"That's fine, can he do it now?"

 

"No, he is not here"

 

"When will he be here?"

 

"I don't know. Why don't you try back next week?" (Maybe she could get a job at DOS.)

 

"But I need to mail the package sooner so it will arrive by Christmas".

 

"I'm sorry but he is not here and he is the only one who can authorize this".

 

Realizing this was a futile endeavor, I started to leave, whereupon the lady began gathering up my gifts and placing them on the scale. I asked what she was doing and, (I swear I'm not making this up), the following conversation took place.

 

"What are you doing?"

 

"Weighing your package. I thought you wanted to mail it?"

 

"But you said...."

 

"I can mail it for you I think"

 

"But you said the gentlemen was not here."

 

"Well, if you mail the package to America by air or by sea, it has to be examined first. But if you mail it the regular way, it does not have to be examined. So I can mail it the regular way".

 

 

Please not that this entire conversation was being translated by my wife so it took quite awhile to get through all of this.

 

"Let me see if I understand you, if it goes by sea or air, it has to be examined first. But if it goes by the regular way, it doesn't?"

 

"That's right"

 

"Can I ask a simple question? America is on the other side of the Pacific Ocean. If it doesn't go by land or sea, how does it get there?"

 

After looking at me as if I were a complete idiot, she responded,

 

"The regular way!"

 

Gathering up my things I replied,

 

"I think I'll wait. You have been very helpful."

 

This is but one of many tales Sir Owen, tales that could make your head spin in circles til you become convinced you have chronic vertigo.

 

More later.

[Mick]

Correction to the above conversation:

 

"If it does not go by air or sea, how does it get there". (Not "by land or sea")

 

Either my keyboard is getting rusty, or I am.

 

More likely the latter.

[Guest bbridges51]

OH, god, i just LOVE y ou guys.

 

Of course, everything has become clear now. DOS and GZ are doing things the "regular way."

 

Wow!!! how backwards.

 

Brian

[owenkrout]

Mick really is not making this up. I have had essentially the same conversation. Of course I have had to explain to a number of people here why we can't just take the train to get to America, since my wife is afraid of flying.

"You can take the train to Russia."

"Yes, I know that."

"Russia is very close to America." (Alaska)

"Yes but there is no train."

"Why?"

"Because of the ocean."

"Really?" "I think you must be wrong."

 

 

Also, related to the money exchange issue and to the post office experience that Mick mentions:

Bank of China, a branch located in an economic development zone, where they were used to dealing with foreigners, mostly Koreans and Japanese. Luckily, with a clerk that actually could speak very good English, a rarity.

"I want to withdraw 20,000 Renmembi from my account and convert it to dollars."

"Why?"

"I need to wire the money to my bank in America."

"I don't think we can let you do that."

"What do you mean? Its my money."

"No, its Chinese money, you need American money."

"No, I mean the money belongs to me."

"Why do you want to send it to America?"

"To have money in America to pay my bills with there."

"You can't send Renmembi to America."

"I know that, that is why I want to change it to dollars."

"Oh, why didn't you say so?"

All this is going on while Chinese customers are trying to push me back from the window and are reaching around me and shouting at the clerk in Chinese. Just normal procedure in China. I have planted myself firmly with elbows spread to take possession of the window and am refusing to move. RMB were finally drawn out and I had to physically count them myself. I then have to fill out another form and take them to another window to change them to dollars. Same routine of claiming your space at that window.

"You can only exchange 15,000 RMB to dollars."

"Why?"

"That is the government regulation."

"What do I do about the rest?" "That will mean that I have to pay the fee twice."

"I don't know." And the obvious, unspoken, I don't care either.

We discussed this for some time with me arguing that I had never heard of that before. Which I knew had nothing to do with the situation, but it was worth a try. Finally I gave up and changed the amount on the paperwork, figuring that I could always do the rest tomorrow. I went back to the window and handed them the new paperwork and the 15,000 RMB.

"What about the other 5,000RMB?"

"Its right here." Placing the packet on the counter in front of me. "You said that I couldn't exchange it."

Without a word, they pick up the packet and start to walk off with the entire 20,000.

"Hey, were are you going with that?"

Very puzzled, "To exchange it for dollars."

"You said I couldn't do that."

A look like I am a complete idiot and they continue on their way. I am able to watch them and they take the wad of money to another desk where it is machine counted three times, hand counted, then handed to the person at the desk. They machine count it three times, hand count it and machine count it again. They then physically count out the American dollars which are machine counted three times, hand counted, handed to the next person........etc. Remember, I wanted to wire funds to America. I don' t need the dollars.

She brings the dollars back to me and I have to verify the count. She then takes the dollars to another desk where she machine counts them three times.......you get the routine. That person is the one to make out the wire transfer it turns out. Now another problem, they need the wire transfer fees in RMB, not dollars. Being fresh out of RMB, I have to go back to the ATM machine to get cash. That means that they have to give me back my dollars and we go through the counting routine again. I walk the quarter of a mile through their luxurious stone lobby to the ATM machines. They are all out of order. I go back to the window to get cash. They need my passbook, not the card. I go home to get that. I return and go back to the window for withdrawals. But now it is 1130. Lunchtime!! I come back at 1430. Nobody but a couple of clerks playing cards. (This is a major main bank!) I wait until 1500 because only the proper people can deal with dollars. Finally, rubbing sleep from their eyes, the "proper people" arrive.

We go through the whole counting routine again. This time no argument about how much and finally the transfer is complete. Or is it? It took over two weeks for the "wire transfer" to show up at my Bank of America account. Their only comment was that it was actually pretty quick for Bank of China.

[Myles]

Aloha from Hawaii,

I have been through the slow procedure to cash traveler's checks or to

buy currency with a Master Card. I went through it a little faster because

I was the only one there at the time. Cashing traveler's checks at the

airport is faster and easier.

Myles aka Annakuen'GG