001girls storm Consulate!, (Turned back by police!

[Guest hotclick]

To everyone one has read & discuused this interesting topic, you can blame it on me because it was I who asked my wife (one of the ladies in 001 girls) to take the picture of the consulate.

 

That day, the girls have a get together & I asked my wife to take a photo of the Consulate since I wanted her to be familiar w/ the place when the interview time comes. Unfortunately, she forgot to charge her batteries & the digital camera I gave her was useless later in that day.

 

So she asked the leader to take a picture of the consulate so that she can email me the photo. The photo was taken by the leader of the group which I know is not Fei.

 

My wife just merely asked to go to see the Consulate just to find out where it is.

 

There was no intention of "storming" the Consulate by these girls as mentioned by oregonknl. Plus, how can a group of girls storm a Consulate watched by the guards? USE SOME COMMON SENSE!!

 

After reading all these posts & hooplas, I was taken back at what was ridiculed & laughed about.

 

The words used by oregonknl like "News at 11", "to expedite things", or "gang of 001 women that marched" can be easily misunderstood (especially by foreign persons not well versed w/ English). What seemed to be humorous & harmless to you may be misinterpreted as a ridicule & disrespect by others.

 

I can understand how these ladies felt when they read the posts & have to agree with them on some respect. How would Americans feel if we Chinese start posting humorous jokes about your legal system & some murderers get away w/ crime & make a mockery of your judicial sytem? Or, activist slandering some local officials & getting away with derision. Then we can say that Americans do not understand our Chinese subtle humor.

 

The previous widely discussed topic has definitely left some bad impression on us Americans. If we want a good family life & relationships with these foreign brides, I think we must put aside our own relaxed feelings at this point in time until our partners have come to learn the American way of life. I've heard remarks as far as "These American husband will never respect us when we come over."

 

Remember, NOTHING is gained by opening one's mouth wide. And, COOLER HEADS always prevail.

 

ENOUGH SAID & I hope I have laid to rest any misunderstanding & hurt feelings the topic has caused.

[oregonknl]

Actually, Hotclick,

 

You haven't laid anything to rest --- you have just opened another can of worms ---- and I think you know it..

 

"..how can a group of girls storm a Consulate watched by guards, USE SOME COMMON SENSE!!"

 

EXACTLY ~!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

So that is the part about American humor that seems to be going over everyone's head (of those critical of my posts..)

 

COMMON SENSE DICTATES THAT THIS IS ALL A BIG JOKE!!! WHY TAKE IT SO SERIOUSLY ?????

 

Look, Don said something (when he closed down the original post) that perhaps had more meaning than he intended: CANDLE IS AN ENGLISH LANGUAGE WEB SITE!

 

Should we all stop telling humorous stories on the Candle simply to placate those Chinese that DON'T UNDERSTAND HARMLESS AMERICAN ENGLISH HUMOR????

 

It may well be that I should have listened to Taz --- an ABC who has spent considerable time in China in the first place --- she seemed to understand Cookie's true hostility better than I did..

 

When I look back at her posts, yes, they were very much personal attacks --- I though she might not have understood our language initially..

 

I know some in the past have lost membership privilages for attacks as virolent as hers have been --- I don't favor that -- I have always ------ (including to the time of the rumpus room) -------- suggested that America's traditon of free speech should prevail...

 

... I still do --- and I hope this, at least clearifies some of my position on this..

[Jeikun]

I agree with Kim completely. It was a harmless joke. When I read it it was obvious to me that it was intended to be silly and exaggerated. His own fiance was part of the group, so why would he slander her?

 

ANY American - or perhaps I should say "English language" humor can be misunderstood by a non native speaker... in fact in my experience, humor in another language is one of the last things you begin to understand as you develop fluency and learn culture, because to understand the subtelties necessary to appreciate humor you have to have a high command of the language, and understanding of the cultural context.

 

So, I understand why a non native speaker could misunderstand. However, while we very much welcome our Chinese fiancees and wives her to the site, it was created for us. It is an english language site. Are we to refrain from making jokes, because they may be misunderstood? I seriously cannot see that as being beneficial.

 

When I potentially misunderstand something in another language, while I may initially have a reaction I would ask a native speaker for clarification before going off. You know what they say, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

 

If Jun misunderstands something, or is unclear, she asks me about it. It's not too hard. As a matter of fact, it's a learning experience. This is not a sterile environment. This is a place for us to come and discuss our visa stories and issues, and a funny story or a joke helps lighten everyone's mood. And speaking of lighten, that is what everyone offended needs to do... lighten up!!

 

It wasn't meant to be offensive... it wasn't offensive... it was rather light and exxagerated to be honest. Take a step back, take a deep breath and read it again. Relax folks.

[maiyademama]

How would Americans feel if we Chinese start posting humorous jokes about your legal system & some murderers get away w/ crime & make a mockery of your judicial sytem? Or, activist slandering some local officials & getting away with derision. Then we can say that Americans do not understand our Chinese subtle humor.

 

 

The previous widely discussed topic has definitely left some bad impression on us Americans. If we want a good family life & relationships with these foreign brides, I think we must put aside our own relaxed feelings at this point in time until our partners have come to learn the American way of life.

 

I am confused by your post. At first i thought you were Chinese because of what you said in the first quote. But then you called yourself American and your bride "foreign" in the second quote.

 

Are you ABC or naturalized?

[JeffandJade]

I am with you on this one too Kim..

 

The analogy comparing this to humor in murderers getting away w/crime is way off base.

 

Jade, my Chinese fiance, read the initial post and found it very humerous. Her belief is that this Cookie character may have an issue with your wife and is using an avenue to inflict the most "loss of face" that she can.

 

But unfortunate for her, she has only inflicted upon herself..

 

As for this post started by hotclick..

I'm thinking this might just be a bogguss post to "stir things up".

 

Or possibly a conspiring party.

 

Jeff

[Guest nobigdeal]

please don't mind my poor english,I am new here,but I am one member in 001,I joined the meeting in GZ too,so I want to say something here.

 

I am with Cookie and hotclick,because of oregonknl and oregonknlsfei didn't make any sense in their american humor with some lies.

 

as Cookie questioned them in the original post,I don't think oregonknl and oregonknlsfei could answer,you know people usually couldn't answer their lies.

 

my fiance is a native american,he thought this big homor wasn't real american type while I copied those posts to him,he thought the storming could cause big problems in the US if people really did that outside of governments.he also didn't understand why did oregonknl use this word (mob) for his fiancee and 001 members,as we know mob is a derogatory sense word in english,means those 001 members tried to do something against consulate in GZ.did they really do that?he thought we all might be in jail if we did storm consulate.

 

we all know this is General Visa Discussion,we 11 ladies didn't think oregonknl and oregonknlsfei were right to post this non Visa Discussion here,they could post this topic somewhere in CFL if they didn't want to show off.we all ladies have never thought a nice meeting could cause lots of non sense controversy starting by oregonknl and oregonknlsfei.they both seem enjoy to argue with the truth.as we felt that they were big trouble makers of time wasting.we really feel sorry to have known this type person in members of 001 and CFL.

[Guest hotclick]

I can agree w/ Jeikun about jokes being taken seriously by others who doesn't understand our language.

 

Unfortunately, the act of opening a can of worms (or should I say discussion) was not commenced by me. I was here merely to make things clear.

 

As I have said before, NOTHING is gained by opening one's mouth wide.

 

Why someone would want to risk his petition for his fiance in the Internet is something I still am searching for a logical answer.

 

Does he ever wonder if the US verification officer looks at these posts?

 

Enough said & I WILL NOT STOOP too low to answer back any more questions.

[PJ]

As many of you know, I am a U.S. born citizen and raised in a 100% american environment. However, I have tried hard over the past few years to learn as much as I can about Chinese language and culture.

 

Although I don't believe oregonknl had any bad intentions with his original post, I can definitely see from a Chinese perspective how this could be embarrassing and construed as a loss of face.

 

What seemed to be humorous & harmless to you may be misinterpreted as a ridicule & disrespect by others.

 

I think hotclick makes an excellent point here. As americans, we should strive to understand and respect other cultures, and if another culture sees something as disrespectful, we should try to understand and avoid doing it. Since we have so many different cultures and peoples here in the US, which is part of what makes America so great ... all the different cultures and mutual respect. And I believe that *ANYONE* who happens to have a significant other coming from another country (I believe this applies to many if not most people on Candle) should strive even harder to be tolerant and respectful of other cultures.

 

Should we all stop telling humorous stories on the Candle simply to placate those Chinese that DON'T UNDERSTAND HARMLESS AMERICAN ENGLISH HUMOR????

 

You mentioned that you are an advocate of the first amendment. Well I will post openly my thoughts on this. I felt this statement had an xenophobic tinge to it. As someone with Chinese heritage, I took offense to "those Chinese that DON'T UNDERSTAND HARMLESS AMERICAN ENGLISH HUMOR".

 

I really hope that all of us on Candle can take a step back and realize that yes, we may not understand fully other cultures and people from other cultures may not understand fully the American sense of humor, but we should try hard to be respectful and considerate.

 

P.J.

[Greenlemon]

Hi,everyone:

 

I am a member on 001,and i am new here.i have read this topic for several days,but i didn't mention it to my fiance until today.When i asked him:"Dear,Have you read the hot topic on CFL about 001 ladies going to GZ consulate?"he said:"yes",i asked him:" how do you think that?"he answered me:"I knew it was a joke when I first read it...I think the Cookie lady overreacted,I know that American humor can be misunderstood, but I think after a few days he explained that it was just a joke and no offense was meant, but the Cookie lady made personal attacks on him, and I think she was wrong for that ,I know if she was that upset she should have posted that she thought it was offensive and after he apologized she should have left it alone,but she wanted to attack anyone who thought the joke was funny or harmless, and why would she attack Fei because she wants to show off new clothes? I thought that is what women like to do..Have a get-together and if someone has new clothes show them off, Cookie was so mean in her posts...I think that is bad"

 

here i should explain that my fiance is native American.I am so glad to have known my fiance's feeling is so alike mine in this case again. no wonder,that is all way of our thinking,otheriwse,it's impossible that we don't have any argument in the past 1 year.I LOVE YOU,my baby.

 

as a chinese lady, i think Cookie is too overbearing, i don't know how come if her LG or fiance read her posts here.most of chinese ladies are gentle and soft,they are not aggressive,that is one of reasons why my fiance wanted to find a chinese lady as wife.i am really feel sorry to have known this type of person in member of 001 and CFL.

 

ok.i will have to stop it,because i don't want to get any attack from Cookie.

thank you.

Greenlemon

[Jeikun]

Should we all stop telling humorous stories on the Candle simply to placate those Chinese that DON'T UNDERSTAND HARMLESS AMERICAN ENGLISH HUMOR????

 

You mentioned that you are an advocate of the first amendment. Well I will post openly my thoughts on this. I felt this statement had an xenophobic tinge to it. As someone with Chinese heritage, I took offense to "those Chinese that DON'T UNDERSTAND HARMLESS AMERICAN ENGLISH HUMOR".

Xenophobic? C'mon, PJ... he wasn't attacking Chinese people as a whole, or saying Chinese people don't understand American humor. He was referring to SPECIFIC people - as in people who's language skills are such as they aren't developed enough to understand American humor.

 

I notice you made no comment on my post, when I believe I said the exact same thing, so perhaps the way I phrased it was more clear. If Kim had said "...simply to placate people who don't understand harmless english-language humor..." would it have been more clear?

 

In other words, he was saying cookie (and really that is to whom he is referring) didn't understand because of her LANGUAGE SKILLS not because of her NATIONALITY.

 

There is nothing xenophobic, or racist, in acknowledging that people with poor language skills do not get certain jokes. That makes it a time to educate them - not a time to stop using our language in order to not confuse.

 

The person in question had it explained... she was apologized to and told no offence was meant, but continued to attack. Suddenly it's no longer about a misunderstood jest, but about an irrational person lashing out with personal attacks with no care to stop.

 

Now so many others are on the bandwagon. Like I said before, everone should just step back and take a breath. If we expect to be offended, we will get offended 50 times more than if we don't hold that expectation.

 

Calling that statement by Kim xenophobic was wrong, PJ. I think he has shown himself on this site repetedly to be very much the opposite - and I think you know that too. See how a misunderstanding can create so much trouble?

[johnxiaoying]

A word of caution: Think twice before taking your spouses to the Comedy Club if they are the "sensitive types" and especially don't sit on the front row if you go.

[Jeikun]

I think hotclick makes an excellent point here.  As americans, we should strive to understand and respect other cultures, and if another culture sees something as disrespectful, we should try to understand and avoid doing it.  Since we have so many different cultures and peoples here in the US, which is part of what makes America so great ... all the different cultures and mutual respect.  And I believe that *ANYONE* who happens to have a significant other coming from another country (I believe this applies to many if not most people on Candle) should strive even harder to be tolerant and respectful of other cultures. 

This brings up an interesting point as well. Most of us do have a significant other coming from another country, yes. And we should be understanding and respectful of their culture. But it also goes the other way around.

 

I really find it amusing. When an American goes abroad, and has a culture-shock type experience he/she will be told "You have to understand it's their culture" - when a person abroad comes to America and there is a similar situation, the AMERICAN is AGAIN told "You have to understand it's their culture" Apparently American culture is a vaccum... an anti-culture just waiting to be replaced with whatever "real" culture it clashes with?

 

Here is my take... if I were moving to China - I would in MOST circumstances defer to, adapt to and adopt their culture. There would be a few that I simply could not, would not, or would take a long time to adapt to - and I would expect understanding and acceptance.

 

Likewise, I would like to think a Chinese who has decided to move to America would in MOST circumstances defer to, adapt to, and adopt OUR culture. Obviously in a few circumstances they could not, would not, or would take a long time to adapt - and we should give all the understanding and support in the world.

 

But, I don't think being tolerant and respectful means we should alter our behavior or language, sugar-coat our thoughts, etc... we should be patient and understanding and explain anything misunderstood. Apologizing for hurt feelings due to a misunderstanding is fine - hurt feelings are hurt feelings no matter the cause. COMPROMISE is the key here, not total acceptance - at least culturally speaking. Linguisticcaly speaking - there can be no compromise - English is English... period.

 

I have looked and looked and I can't see anywhere where the constitution says we have the right to not be offended. Truth is, the only things that won't potentially offend SOMEONE SOMEWHERE in our language is... hmmm... technical manuals... lunch menus... lists of ingredients... should we all talk like that for fear of offending someone - too late that would offend ME.

[Jeikun]

A word of caution: Think twice before taking your spouses to the Comedy Club if they are the "sensitive types" and especially don't sit on the front row if you go.    

So true!! And leave the mace at home! :P

[PJ]

I notice you made no comment on my post, when I believe I said the exact same thing, so perhaps the way I phrased it was more clear. If Kim had said "...simply to placate people who don't understand harmless english-language humor..." would it have been more clear?

 

Jason ... yes, that would have been more clear. I would not have taken issue with "people who don't undersand harmless english-language humor".

 

I just didn't like to hear "those Chinese ... " just as many would take offense to hearing about "those Japanese" or "those Jews". It immediately makes someone in the "those" group feel like they're part of some undesirable category of sub-human. Perhaps this wasn't what Kim had intended to convey, but it was definitely a statement that made me feel unwelcome.

 

There is nothing xenophobic, or racist, in acknowledging that people with poor language skills do not get certain jokes. That makes it a time to educate them - not a time to stop using our language in order to not confuse.

 

I do agree with this statement. But I still feel that a certain amount of sensitivity is needed. There is an appropriate time and place for all comments. For example, I will say jokingly when out with my pals, "I'm gonna kick your butt." I would not, however, say that in the office because that would likely lead to termination of my employment.

 

P.J.

[JeffandJade]

Now I'm thinking, the post showing showing subtle American humor and sarcasm may have done Cookie and others thinking similarly some good. I would think this would be the prefered forumn to have a dispute like this. Had it happened at a later date, perhaps when she was in the US with her husband, and a similar scenario but with a "face to face" meeting, maybe things would be far more uncomfortable and perhaps get out of hand in a hurry. So maybe the fact it happened here, in this forumn, the parties will be more aware in the future when they are in the US and avoid a possibly confrontational situation over a harmless joke or gesture misconstrued as a personal attack.

 

 

Jeff