Communist Party Member

[Chinese Wife!!!]

I do not recommend lying to the US gov't.  It has a way of haunting you.  But, if you can read between the lines I write now, there's always a way around the commie issue.  

 

she quits her job for a couple of months.  He supports her and her baby.  Their papers reflect she has no job.  

 

No one is the wiser.

DaveG,

 

Isn't this question generally asked "Have you ever been......

 

Also 143Xin how did the question arise? Oral interview W/ VO?

[Dave G.]

I do not recommend lying to the US gov't.  It has a way of haunting you.  But, if you can read between the lines I write now, there's always a way around the commie issue.  

 

she quits her job for a couple of months.  He supports her and her baby.  Their papers reflect she has no job.  

 

No one is the wiser.

DaveG,

 

Isn't this question generally asked "Have you ever been......

 

Also 143Xin how did the question arise? Oral interview W/ VO?

143Xin is the first ever that I've read of here on CFL to get denied for that. Hasn't it struck any else as odd that so many Chinese get visas despite the question? That issue caused me to ask my wife about party affiliation. Who joins and who doesn't, in other words. I've learned that it boils down to what job you want. Better paying, supervisory jobs require that fist to the head. Just today, my wife and I talked about it. In "the old days," joining the party was viewed by others as a great thing. Now, people laugh at others who join. Interesting....

 

It's my belief people are basically honest in the visa process. However, how do so many get around that little problem? Go figure....

 

There's a joke I'm dying to make in the very last question you posed to offer a solution to the problem. It has to do with inserting the word "during" somewhere in the question. But, I won't go there.

 

Oops...guess I just did.

[chinadave2001]

My ex-fiance declared that she had been a member of the party on her visa application and got her visa anyway, as have many others. This story is inconsistent with past practice.

CD

[C_L_R2004]

143Xin,

I recently started the K-1 visa process for my fiancee and would like to clarify a couple points.

 

First, the State Department rule appears to bar any former Chinese Communist from getting a visa if their membership was terminated less than 5 years from the date on their visa application. Why are they giving your wife a hard time if she quit 6 years ago?

 

Second, how did they find out? I recently read an enlightening thread on this forum that indicated a “Don’t ask, don’t tell” policy was in place at the Guangzhou consulate. And the forms I’ve seen so far ask about current party membership, not previous. Did the VO ask in the interview? Or maybe I’m just not familiar with all of the K-1 forms yet.

 

This is starting to worry me. Any thoughts out there?

 

Dave

[Guest BouncingBohemian]

First, the State Department rule appears to bar any former Chinese Communist from getting a visa if their membership was terminated less than 5 years from the date on their visa application.  Why are they giving your wife a hard time if she quit 6 years ago?

 

Second, how did they find out?  I recently read an enlightening thread on this forum that indicated a “Don’t ask, don’t tell” policy was in place at the Guangzhou consulate.  And the forms I’ve seen so far ask about current party membership, not previous.  Did the VO ask in the interview?   Or maybe I’m just not familiar with all of the K-1 forms yet.

 

This is starting to worry me.  Any thoughts out there?

 

 

These are both really good points. I looked into this before. It may have been "my" thread that you are talking about. Here is the actual text from the State Dept's web site:

 

http://travel.state.gov/visa/frvi_waivers2.html

 

(Section 212(a) of the Immigration and Nationality Act reads:

 

(a) Classes of Aliens Ineligible for Visas or Admission...

 

(1) Health-related grounds.

(2) Criminal and related grounds.

(3) Security and related grounds.

...(A) <generally-known-to-be-naughty folks>

...(B) Terrorist activities-

...© Foreign policy.-

...(D) Immigrant membership in totalitarian party.-

 

........ i) In general.-Any immigrant who is or has been a member of or

........... affiliated with the Communist or any other totalitarian party ...

............ is inadmissible.

 

........ (ii) Exception for involuntary membership -

.............. <if you had no choice, we forgive you>

 

......... (iii) Exception for past membership.-Clause (i) shall not apply to an

............... alien because of membership or affiliation if the alien establishes

............... to the satisfaction of the consular officer when applying for a

............... visa (or to the satisfaction of the Attorney General when

............... applying for admission) that-

 

................. (I) the membership or affiliation terminated at least-

 

........................ (a) 2 years before the date of such application, or

 

.........................(b) 5 years before the date of such application, in the case

......................... .... of an alien whose membership or affiliation was with

.............................. the party controlling the government of a foreign state

.............................. that is a totalitarian dictatorship as of such date,

.............................. <E.G., CHINA> and

 

...................(II) the alien is not a threat to the security of the

........................ United States.

 

.......... (iv) Exception for close family members.-The Attorney General may,

............... in the Attorney General's discretion, waive the application of

............... clause (i) in the case of an immigrant who is the parent, spouse,

................ son, daughter, brother, or sister of a citizen of the United States

................ or a spouse, son, or daughter of an alien lawfully admitted for

................ permanent residence for humanitarian purposes, to assure

................ family unity, or when it is otherwise in the public interest if the

................ immigrant is not a threat to the security of the United States.

 

 

SO - as long as your wife is not a threat to the security of the United States, I would think you should get the exception D-iii or even D-iv. But it is curious to me that they ever flagged her in the first place. If she was just an innocuous member, I wouldn't think they would care. If she was a member in the "Brigade to subvert and overthrow the imperialist US government," then I think they might care. Is there something in your wife's background that could raise a flag?

 

When we discussed this in the previous thread, someone phoned a friend of a friend in the Guangzhou consulate and they said as long as the fiance wasn't currently a member, it shouldn't be a problem. They usually only ask "ARE YOU NOW" a member in the communist party, instead of "were you ever." Here is what they ask you on the DS-230 part 2:

 

EXCEPT AS OTHERWISE PROVIDED BY LAW, ALIENS WITHIN THE FOLLOWING CLASSIFICATIONS ARE INELIGIBLE TO RECEIVE A VISA.

DO ANY OF THE FOLLOWING CLASSES APPLY TO YOU?

 

a) ...

b) ...

c) An alien who ... is a member of or affiliated with the Communist or other totalitarian party; ...

 

Notice how it says "who IS a member of or affiliated with..."

 

I assumed previously that they made this "IS" instead of "in the last 5 years" because the exceptions D-iii and D-iv are routinely granted anyway. If they ask "are you a communist party member" and one stopped being a member 6 years ago (or even six months ago), the correct answer would be "yes," the consul would be satisfied, and there should be no issue (in theory). There is no reason to lie in this case: as long as they only ask "are you now" instead of "were you ever."

 

I'm really sorry to hear this happened. Did they ask her "are you now" and she volunteered the information, or did they ask her "were you ever" and she didn't want to lie? I sure hope it's not just a question of her misreading the DS-230 and answering "yes" when she could have answered no!

 

I agree, lying to the US govt is a scary concept because if they ever catch you in the lie, that's it, forever. Forget about ever getting a VISA.

 

I hope you get one of the exceptions above. Unless your wife was really active in a really nasty part of the party, I'm not sure how she got flagged in the first place. Maybe she just got a particularly nasty interviewer. Other people have said their wives or fiances were STILL communist party members, and they were upfront about it, and they still made it through.

 

Good luck!!!!!!!!!!

[143Xin]

I have been traveling for the past few days and have not had the opportunity to check, or respond, to some of the questions raised.

 

The question was, according to my wife, asked in the form of "When did you join..." and she was not asked if she was still a member or when she left the party.

 

As for those who have received their Visa's even after acknowledging their prior experience for with the Communist Party, I am happy for them.

Granted this may be inconsistant with past practice, but, that I don't know about, I do know that this was the reason supplied to Congressman Boucher when his office inquired on my behalf.

 

As for lying, I am against that for any reason, I am pleased that my wife told the truth, even if it means a delay for us to be together. We have been at this for 18 months, and for a CR1 VISA, that isn't too bad. Waiting a few more months to be with my honest woman, it's worth it.

[PJ]

As for lying, I am against that for any reason, I am pleased that my wife told the truth, even if it means a delay for us to be together. We have been at this for 18 months, and for a CR1 VISA, that isn't too bad. Waiting a few more months to be with my honest woman, it's worth it.

 

Wow, you have a great and positive attitude about it. My hat's off to both you and your wife! I hope this is resolved quickly.

 

P.J.

[king]

In my view the IV unit is trying to tighten up it process to weed out cases that do not qualify under the law (INA) and the rules. The form of the question asked of 143xin's SO suggests to me that the IV unit could ask anyone as a kind of trick question.

 

In this case because his SO quit the party, assuming more than 5 years prior to the filing of the application that she will not have a problem getting her visa, if,of course there is always and if, she was not into big time party politics or working in a sensitive area, like the military or some such.