Endearing vs Eloquent

[Mick]

Li was an English teacher at a university in China. She often corrects my English. Seriously, she has had little trouble with the language and has now picked up a number of slang terms and idiomatic expressions. Her biggest challenge has been to understand the typical language spoken around here, which isn't English but Southern.

 

I explained a few of the grammatical and pronunciation rules of Southern to her. For example, if a word has one syllable, pronounce it as if it has two y's in the middle and is multi-syllabic. For example:

 

Hayyidd (Head)

 

Maaiyyus (Mouse)

 

Howwarse (Horse)

 

Wayyull (Well)

 

Theeyyis (This)

 

I could go on and on with this. I am sure Robert could be a big help here, not to mention Trigg.

[warpedbored]

Li was an English teacher at a university in China. She often corrects my English. Seriously, she has had little trouble with the language and has now picked up a number of slang terms and idiomatic expressions. Her biggest challenge has been to understand the typical language spoken around here, which isn't English but Southern.

 

I explained a few of the grammatical and pronunciation rules of Southern to her. For example, if a word has one syllable, pronounce it as if it has two y's in the middle and is multi-syllabic. For example:

 

Hayyidd (Head)

 

Maaiyyus (Mouse)

 

Howwarse (Horse)

 

Wayyull (Well)

 

Theeyyis (This)

 

I could go on and on with this. I am sure Robert could be a big help here, not to mention Trigg.

140485[/snapback]

You just reminded me of the thread where R2D2 had Li scratching her head with some of his idioms. If I wasn't so lazy I would dig them out.

[Robert S.]

Dang! I'm glad you are teaching her to talk right!!!

[Jeikun]

UPDATE: Jun just received her EAD, and has enrolled in the local community college. She is taking an 8 credit english class. Not ESL, but the class designed to bring students who are lacking in reading/writing/vocabulary skills up to speed to be able to take the true college level English. This will be difficult for her, but I have looked at the course material and I think it's exactly what she needs. She's beyond ESL but not to the college entry level. The reading text even has some "ESL concideration" sections at the end of chapters, further confirming to me that it's an excellent bridge between English for foreign speakers, and advanced English for Native speakers. I know she will do well.

 

This will prepare her better for work, for taking advanced courses taught in English, and for feeling more at ease expressing herself. Jun desperately wants to feel like this is "her home" and not to feel like a foreigner, a burden, or a second class citizen. This is a great start in my opinion.

[tywy_99]

Jun just received her EAD, and has enrolled in the local community college.

 

VIRGINIA WESTERN?...cooL!.......

 

What news of the Driver's License?

[Mick]

Worthless as chicken poop on a pump handle.

140821[/snapback]

Now don't you start up too Don!

 

R2 was bad enough.

[HanLi]

UPDATE:  Jun just received her EAD, and has enrolled in the local community college.  She is taking an 8 credit english class.  Not ESL, but the class designed to bring students who are lacking in reading/writing/vocabulary skills up to speed to be able to take the true college level English.  This will be difficult for her, but I have looked at the course material and I think it's exactly what she needs.  She's beyond ESL but not to the college entry level.  The reading text even has some "ESL concideration" sections at the end of chapters, further confirming to me that it's an excellent bridge between English for foreign speakers, and advanced English for Native speakers.  I know she will do well.

 

This will prepare her better for work, for taking advanced courses taught in English, and for feeling more at ease expressing herself.  Jun desperately wants to feel like this is "her home" and not to feel like a foreigner, a burden, or a second class citizen.  This is a great start in my opinion.

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hey, that is a great idea, I have been to that campus, I taught a couple of engineering courses at CVCC when I was in Lynchburg for a couple of years in the late 80's. I think the effort necessary will be what she needs to succeed, she and you both seem determined, I wish you both best of luck.

[david_dawei]

Worthless as chicken poop on a pump handle.

140821[/snapback]

Now don't you start up too Don!

 

R2 was bad enough.

141240[/snapback]

Now, Mick. Don't be that way. Has Li figured out 'dirty old man'?

 

I had to explain to Xiahong the difference between 'dirty old man' and 'old dirty man'. Seems like I'm both.

141352[/snapback]

only beneath the covers...

[Jeikun]

Jun just received her EAD, and has enrolled in the local community college.

 

VIRGINIA WESTERN?...cooL!.......

 

What news of the Driver's License?

141041[/snapback]

Yep, Virginia Western.

 

Got the learner's no problem. Can take the behind the wheel test on August 12th. Virginia still doesn't test parallel parking, right?

 

Thanks for the advice about not needing the EAD first though. It sped things up enough for us to ensure she can take classes.

[tywy_99]

As far as I know they don't test for parallel parking. They didn't test my wife on that.

Your wife will have 3 chances to pass the road test. I don't know if she already has experience in driving or not but good luck either way!

 

 

***

...one other thing, Jason. Make sure your wife knows how to operate the dashboard functions, i.e. lights, signals, heater/AC, back-up lights, wipers, and so on. Also, how to adjust the mirrors.

The DMV officer did this, like getting your car inspected. I had failed to teach my wife all this at first.

Edited July 31, 2005 by tywy_99 (see edit history)

[shyaushu]

I've seen many posts over the last couple of months related to the "endearing" way many of our fiancees and wives speak English.  Most recently the China-isms thread.  I laughed along with most of them, but it also got me wondering about a couple of things.

 

First, for those of you who's loved one has been in the US for some time, how difficult has it been for her/him to improve their English, how quickly have they progressed, classes or just immersion, what are their ambitions in that area, etc.?

 

Secondly, how do they react to you finding their mispronunciations and/or gramatical and syntax errors endearing?  Do they laugh along?  Feel embarassed?  Get angry?  Do they learn the right way and then keep saying it the "wrong" way to you as an in-joke, or immediatly change and never say it that way again?

 

Jun has a good sense of humor about it, and doesn't get upset - she laughs along, but I also know it frustrates her a little.  So I point it out, we laugh, and then I tell her the right way and we move on.

 

Jun is a writer.  She writes scripts, advertisements, poems, and short stories.  She is very eloquent and expressive in Chinese.  It frustrates her at times that she is sometimes reduced to the speaking level of a child when speaking and writing in English.  She worries that she will never develop the mastery of English that she has of Chinese, or that it will take a very long time.

 

Despite my occasional misspellings and typical lazy American English from time to time, I like to think that my level in English is a near match for her level in Chinese, and I hope that will allow me to help her.  I know Jun is a very dedicated person, and her frustration at her English level will fuel her commitment to improving.  I would like to see her abilities in English come to match her abilities in Chinese one day.  Not for me, but for the pride and confidence I know it will give her.

 

I've already been looking into ESL classes in the area.  What she needs is "advanced" ESL, and those classes are a little more scarce.  It seems that "Beginner" and "Intermediate" are sufficient for day to day life, and even college admission - but I know a beginner class would be pointless for her, and an intermediate class would quickly become no challenge and boring.  An advanced class would help to expose her to many of the more advanced concepts, that aren't used on a day to day basis even by us, and a "layman" would be hard pressed to explain the "whys of it" to satisfaction.

 

One challenge for me, is that I was always raised to believe that correcting someone's English is rude.  Meaning no disrespect to my southern brethren, but the oppertunity to do just that abounds here.  So, I've conditioned myself over the years to not say anything as long as I understand the meaning of what is being said (unless it's funny).  Now I have to unlearn that, and recognize that Jun WANTS to be corrected.  When she says "I wish I didn't make a bad decision"  I have to point out that to most people that would mean that you know you've made a bad decision, and are now regretting it.  What she meant was "I hope I haven't made a bad decision."

 

This is why I don't post "Jun-isms" here.  I would feel a little guilty about it.  I'm not saying anyone here should - that's not my point.  Everyone's relationships and situations are different.  I may find some of her pronunciations or mistakes cute or funny from time to time, but it's my duty to correct them so she never says them unless she wants to do it intentionally to make me laugh.

 

I can understand her position, because we feel pretty much the same on the issue.  I wouldn't mind my loved one finding my way of talking funny, cute, or endearing - but to the public I would be mortified if this were the image I were projecting of myself.  I want to be seen as articulate, intelligent, and educated.  Not as a "cute wittle guy".  Unfortunately, I think the whole "JP" thing is something I'll never shake here... that's ok though I've come to kind of like it.   (My apologies to Trigg for my less-than-favorable initial reaction)

 

Anyway I'm just curious if anyone would like to share their various opinions on all of this, their loved ones outlook, and what they have/will/are doing in the ESL department.

 

Thanks!!

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Jeikun:

 

My wife Zhenshu and I are not at that stage yet since we are still in the 3rd circle -- waiting for our 4th packet and the interview. Like most Chinese women, Zhenshu has a basic knowledge of English, but no actually usable skills in it.

 

I'm used to learning languages (I also speak French and Japanese) so I have been trying my hand (tongue?) at Mandarin. As a result, after 4 months I have some basic knowledge, but some actually usable skills, too.

 

The two of us (like many others, I suppose) speak in this private language that is part Chinese, part English, with a whole lot of special terms that we have expropriated and use in our own ways.

 

Every challenge also presents opportunities, and our communication is not only getting better all the time (right now limited to twice-daily phone calls), it is developing into a special connection that has brought us closer, I believe, than if we shared fluency in a language.

 

What happens when Zhenshu comes here is another story, yet to be written. She is trying hard to use more English on the phone, but it's easy to fall back on Chinese when your English vocabulary is so limited. I know her HAVING to speak English here (there are not many Chinese people in rural West Virginia!) will force the issue.

 

She has been very generous in correcting my Chinese (especially my inflections, of course), and seems totally committed to my gaining fluency. So, I am assuming she will welcome torrents of English corrections when she is finally here (if we live that long!).

 

Like anything, resourcefulness, adaptability and committment usually rule, regardless of eye shape, skin color or cultural background.

 

I'm confident Zhen will do quite well. She's overcome a great number of incredible challenges in her life (surviving the Cultural Revolution; an abusive marriage; the resulting poverty, etc.).

Edited August 3, 2005 by shyaushu (see edit history)