2nd Divorce

[Guest WolfPack-01]

My MM just told me that she had another marriage previous to the one that we had placed on the G-325A. She knows on the P-3/P-4 paperwork it asks how many times she has been married. She does not want to lie, but I think it would cause problems with the interview process.

 

She had a hard time getting the first divorce paperwork. She said when she married a second time she turned in her divorce papers and got a marriage book.

 

My thinking is we could go on and say nothing or when we submit the P-3 she can sent the copies of the new divorce papers and a letter from me stating she told me she had been married twice before.

 

Has anyone made adjustments to thier paperwork after the backround check?

[Jim - Portland, USA]

I know you are looking for answers, not advice, but I can't help but to blurt out my initial reaction to your problem.

 

If you aren't looking for advice, please skip ahead to the next post and don't read the rest of this message.

 

Doesn't it bother you that your fiance has lied to you about being divorced twice before? I wonder if her two previous husbands left her because of honesty issues. I'm sure you love her very much, enough to marry her, and that's great and all. But shouldn't you be doing a little soul searching after such a disclosure, instead of worrying about what the Feds will think? If it were me, trying to straighten out the paperwork would be the least of my concerns at this point.

 

Speaking of the Feds, and trying to answer your original question ... you are in a real pickle now. Actually, she is. She lied on her G-325A, and that ain't cool with the Feds. It says right on the bottom that "SEVERE PENALITIES ARE PROVIDED BY LAW FOR KNOWLINGLY AND WILLFULLY FALSIFYING OR CONCEALING A MATERIAL FACT". And she being married and divorced a second time easily qualifies as a material fact which she knowlingly and willfully concealed.

 

So if she/you come clean and reveal her lie, that will surely anger the Fed Gods and your case will be cursed and doomed for failure. Yet at the same time, no righteous person will give you the advise of continuing to knowlingly deceive the Feds. I'm certainly not going to give you that advice. Two wrongs don't make a right.

 

Don't know what to tell ya. This is a real pickle. My best advice is, think about finding a more honest girl to spend the rest of your life with. Sorry if that sounds harsh

[warpedbored]

Rule # 1 in dealing with the USCIS on K-visa issues. NEVER EVER EVER LIE ABOUT ANYTHING ON YOUR PAPERWORK. It can come back to bite you. I think the Chinese attitude is much more lax than ours when it comes to govt papers. I know to get accurate up to date info for our I-129 F from Bing was like pulling hens teeth. She didn't seem to get the importance of precise data. Things like parents birthdates, work history etc.

[John & Hai Yan]

Maybe you can withdraw the entire petition and start a new one. But don't take my advice as the final word. I'm somewhat new to this process myself. But I wanted to throw this idea out to see what others might think.

[Jeikun]

When I was being recruited into the Air Force, my recruiter asked me if I had ever smoked marijuana. I said no. He said "Now if you have it's ok". I said no again. Then he said "Ok, but IF you're lying for some reason - whatever the reason - now it's the truth. At some later stage they will ask you again, and tell you it's ok if you said no before. It's not."

 

I hadn't, so it was no big deal. BUT during my initial screening for my security clearance while I was still in basic, they sure enough asked everyone. "Have you ever used any illegal substances? As long as you admit it now, it will be ok. It will be taken into consideration that you were honest." Well, someone's concience was eating away at him and he admitted he had done marijuana a couple of times, and hadn't disclosed it when he was recruited. They kicked him out. Boom.

 

The point? The government will not tolerate dishonesty. And when you look at all the BS reasons they turn down petitions, giving them a good reason is something they won't pass up.

 

I'm not asking you to lie. I couldn't do that in good consience. But I will say, that if you DO disclose the divorce at this point, I'd give 10-1 odds that your petition will be denied.

 

Now... I'm not a lawyer and I COULD concievably be wrong - but I doubt it.

[oregonknl]

During a Patent infrignement lawsuit that I as a little guy brought in Federal Court against a major Corp. that ripped off one of my patents...

 

..... as my attorney told me after we caught one of their key witnesses in a lie after he had been deposed under oath..

 

"Well this will really stink up their case!"

 

--- it did. they lost.

 

-----and the Federal Judge involved was less than pleased with them (on several issues) ouch! ....never good to have a Federal judge less that pleased with you ..... at least in HIS courtroom...

 

thats your worse case senaro, WolfPack ..... personally, I suggest you stop listening to us (except Jim raises an important point on the related issue) ----- and retain an immigration lawyer before you proceed further....

 

---Kim

[Bryan_Qunying]

It seems to me that maybe you should try to contact DOS and just ask a few questions about this situation. At least they might be able to give you some kind of direction. I just can't see you being shot down because of a potential human error. Not putting the additional info was bad, but I would think that the over all coincidence for not revealing all information would be severe enough to want to contact DOS and attempt to make corrections. This might end up pushing you back a way, but in the long run, you and your better half wouldn't have anything to worry about later on. My understanding also is that there is no Statute of Limitations for falsifying government documents. (Don't take may word for it, it was something I remember reading a while back)

 

I'm not trying to preach to you. Just bring up a few things to think about and maybe help you make the right decision.

 

Good Luck!

 

Bryan

[oregonknl]

Well,

 

If you look at INS since 9-11 ---- and we have many cases dead-on this subject (The Oregonian has a special interest in immigration issues --- so it covers a lot of them)----

 

What Bryan says seems to be correct ---- we have seen the Feds. go after people that they really want to deport as "undesirables" --- by going back and going over their visa applications with a fine tooth comb... Amazing how they can find something --- and it doesn't have to be big to invalidate their status in the US --- any missinformation --- particularly "Intentional" missinformation -- on the application will do! Certainly, deleting completely a prior marrage would be considered intentional ....

 

Anyone here want to stand before a Federal Judge and say: "Yes, NOW I remember I WAS married twice!" ...But I forgot about my first marriage at the time I filled out my application!" ----hope it isn't before Judge Robert E. Jones ----- the judge presiding over my case......

[konajim]

first of all if you read the post it never states that she forgot. I believe that she thougt they only wanted the divorce papers to prove that she was not married. She did not believe that they were asking for all prior marriages at the time they did the I-129F. He states she does not want to lie to the question how many times were you married. It does not sound like someone who is trying to decieve anyone. More like an honest mistake and if it is explained this way it should not be a problem. I would try to correct it. So it does not become a major issue in the future. Best of Luck! I hope this does not slow down your case. Jim

[Stats]

Anyone who says they know what will happen is either lying or expressing an opinion. You didn't say what stage you are at, but it appears that you are NCC or later. It's not just the G-325a; the I-129F also asks for all previous marriages. Your situation is not a good one. You either need to continue the lie and hope it is not uncovered or correct it and accept the consequences.

 

Like Carl said, never, ever lie to about anything on your paperwork.

 

 

Agreed and all I see is a whole lot of speculation.

 

You screwed up big time. See an Immigration Attorney. I am not one and there is no way I can advise you on what the future holds.

[Jeikun]

first of all if you read the post it never states that she forgot. I believe that she thougt they only wanted the divorce papers to prove that she was not married. She did not believe that they were asking for all prior marriages at the time they did the I-129F. He states she does not want to lie to the question how many times were you married. It does not sound like someone who is trying to decieve anyone. More like an honest mistake and if it is explained this way it should not be a problem. I would try to correct it. So it does not become a major issue in the future. Best of Luck! I hope this does not slow down your case. Jim

Except for the part where she neglected to mention to HIM that she had been married twice.

[Bryan_Qunying]

first of all if you read the post it never states that she forgot. I believe that she thougt they only wanted the divorce papers to prove that she was not married. She did not believe that they were asking for all prior marriages at the time they did the I-129F. He states she does not want to lie to the question how many times were you married. It does not sound like someone who is trying to decieve anyone. More like an honest mistake and if it is explained this way it should not be a problem. I would try to correct it. So it does not become a major issue in the future. Best of Luck! I hope this does not slow down your case. Jim

This is why, in my prior post, I said "Possible Human Error" instead of committing to shacking my finger at anyone. Some people just do not understand some of the simplest instruction and must read it several times.

 

Unless we (CFL Members and friends) get to know and understand this couple then the best we can ever do is offer possible solutions or additional avenues not yet thought of or considered. There is just simply not enough information or personality in the initial posting to warrant condemnation for the situation. Wolfpack is asking for recommendations to help fix a potential disaster. So instead of shooting this couple down, let's see about helping them with positive reinforcement.

 

Anybody can point a finger!

[frank1538]

The proverbial rock and hard place. I do not condone falsifying any filing with the government, but I will hazard a guess that none of us is lily white in this regard. How many applicants obtained each and every police certificate for those cities whey they lived or worked for more than six months? How many of you knew the exact work dates and addresses for the past five or ten years of employment?

 

With respect to not listing a prior divorce, I can certainly understand how someone could assume that what was intended was proof that the person was not married - nothing more, nothing less - no intent to deceive or falsify. I am assuming here that it was the first divorce and not the second divorce that was omitted.

 

I would suggest that you contact a good immigration attorney and see if there is an easy fix. If so, do it. If not, you will have to make a decision.

[Jim - Portland, USA]

Here is the very first sentence of WolfPack's post ...

 

My MM just told me that she had another marriage previous to the one that we had placed on the G-325A.

 

I take this to mean that just yesterday (7/14/04) he learned for the first time that his fiance had "another marriage previous to the one" she had mentioned back when they filed their paperwork on 4/7/04!

 

The point of my post was that this guy should be concerned about the fact that he just now (yesterday) learned about his fiance's second divorce.

 

In April he was under the impression that she was married once before, as of yesterday he has learned she was married twice before. Come one folks ... normal people don't forget such "little" details such as how many time they've been married before!!!

 

She didn't forget. She didn't make a mistake. She didn't get confused by the simple instructions.

 

She lied. It's plain and simple to see, am I the only one who can see this?

 

Others here on CFL think that's no big deal? It's nothing this his fiance didn't tell him about being married twice before? How can someone fail to mention that they've been married and divorced twice before? To each his own I guess, but I just think such a lie reaches the heights of deceitfulness. I guess some guys are cool with deceit, but I hope WolkPack can start to understand that this little "white lie" of hers should make him think twice about who he's getting involved with.

 

Those of us who are active on CFL and have been around CFL for awhile have seen other relationships crash and burn, and 100% of the time it's because the two people didn't know each other as well as they thought. It seems to me this relationship is already heading down that path. I hope WolfPack doesn't have blinders on.

 

So the whole point of my post was that WolfPack should be deeply concerned about this. NOT from the point of view of the Feds, but from the point of view from his heart ... does he want to spend the rest of life with a girl who can't be trusted to tell the truth?

 

His dilemma with the Feds should be the least of his worries. Good grief, the paperwork problem should be the last thing in his mind to worry about!

 

P.S. I know some folks will say "Oh, it's cultural". I would disagree with that statement. It is not considered to be culturally acceptable in China to lie about how many times one has been divorced in the past. People do it, but not honest people.

[Guest WolfPack-01]

Well I would like to thank most of you for your concerns. I think the best thing to do is contact USCIS and hope they understand.

 

As for Jim I think you have more problems then I. Your lack of compassion and ability to jump to conclusions and dump a relationship amazaes me. Your fiancee had better not mess up any or you will be willing to throw the relationship in the garbage. I and my MM don't claim to be saints. We did a lot of talking and I know that she was ashamed of the way things were handled. That does not make her a patholigical liar.

 

WhenI was in the military stationed in Korea, I saw many GIs marry bar-girls. I know they lied to the VO on how they met. It was common for them to say they met in a shoe store. I do not advocate lying, but everyone has told some white lie in their past. I know this is not a little lie, but it is something that can be fixed and overcome.

 

And I do not think that anyone here has things in their past they are proud of. We are honest with each other, but the past before we met is just that. How we are in the present and what the future holds is more important to me than looking back over our shoulders.