oregonknl Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 But Clifford, as was mentioned above, The first problem with your knife was design --- then came fabrication... Thus the guys with cell phones all over China: "How many can you make?, how fast can you make them? I don't want to pay ANYTHING for design! Give me the factory with the absolute lowest price!, I DON"T CARE if they have never made a knife before! etc. etc. But I believe, that type of guy is almost obsolete in China (don't worry they will move on, and find plenty of work in Vietnam, Cambodia etc...) There is simply no doubt at all the China can make excellent products right now, and they ARE consistantly -- right now... And have been for at least 10 years... Portland OR would be one hurtin' city if it weren't for World trade, and specifically, China. My ex is a senior designer at Columbia Sportswear here in Portland, and is one of a very few in the company who has spent time in the factories in China.. Like Nike and Adidas, Columbia Sportwear designs here, and manufactures largely in China. China is getting more business in shoes and garments, (percentage) not less -- even though their pricing structure is now substantially more expensive than say, Vietnam and Thailand. ... The reason is quality. The Chinese contract factories have a great ability to work from the Oregon design teams, and produce very high quality goods. And they have better quality control regarding fabrication, die-lots (fading, running) shrinkage, pilliage, you name it -- all the technical aspects of a garment that you never think about until something goes really wrong --- and then you have a HUGE problem with the Columbia Sportwear name on it - something that at this point in the company's development, they are very much willing to pay extra to avoid... But also, the last time I was in GZ (September) I was shopping with Fei for some clothes for the girls, in a mall taylored to the local residents, not high end (Tianhe district?) -- and I was surprised to see that the price of nice kids clothes was very similar to Target in the states, and people were buying! This of course, means that there are profit margins sufficient to demand and expect quality from Chinese domestic consumers.... If we have established anything on this website culturally, I think it is that Chinese have a fairly keen sense of the price/quality thing... Once they have the choice, I'm confident they will make it.. Link to comment
chinadave2001 Posted June 8, 2004 Report Share Posted June 8, 2004 The thing works as well as it did 9 years ago. All I have to do is clean out the grime between the keys every once in a while. You mean cheeto dust? CD Link to comment
NicolaNSam Posted June 8, 2004 Report Share Posted June 8, 2004 Excuse me, but I am not talking about the mass market junk they make for domestic consumption, I am simply stating that if they want to make a really high quality item they can produce a world-class product. No, these are not easy to find, but when you do find them in the top-notch department stores you can see what they can make when they want to.Robert I re-read my post and it seems like i'm being a smart ass! LOL! Really I didn't mean anything personal towards you! I know exactly what your talking about Shanghai, Shenzhen, even Nicola's home town of Zhongshan all have areas where you can buy items just as good as America. We went to furniture stores in those areas that sell their items higher than American stores. I'm talking about $5,000 USD bedroom sets Again! Nothing personal Link to comment
MarkLuvsShuPing Posted June 9, 2004 Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 Do you think the lack of quality is a reflection of working under a communist system? One of the biggest flaws in socialist thinking is people do not raise to produce at the highest level, rather they drop to meet the lowest level of production. Why work hard to produce more if your hard work is only going to go to someone who produces less. There are no tangible rewards in a socialist system, so why knock yourself out? Maybe they've gotten used to producing without pride in the production, or reward for their labor so all they can produce now is crap. I agree with Kim, that will change as they move into a more market driven economy. Link to comment
oregonknl Posted June 9, 2004 Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 Mark, Domestically, it is mostly crap.... Columbia Sportswear, Nike, etc.... they extract the qualiity they require from Chinese manufacturers and yes, they do it exactly as you suggest the market driven economy works: The competition among contract factories is extremely stiff --- constantly updating manufacturing techniques and always the most up to date equipment. The western image of the sewing machine in the dimly lit sweatshop is laughably inaccurate... Link to comment
Chinese Wife!!! Posted June 9, 2004 Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 The thoughts of Chinese quality control coming up to par combined with the cheap labor is frightening. Just think in terms of cars, garden equipment and tools let alone other goods. Even less need here and abroad for American products. Richard Link to comment
tonado Posted June 10, 2004 Report Share Posted June 10, 2004 You mean Laissez-Faire. Link to comment
chinadave2001 Posted June 10, 2004 Report Share Posted June 10, 2004 I agree. In fact. i do an exercise with my studenst where they have to identify which country is the most socilaist by listing the socila programs and protections that are given by the government. US wins every time over China. I think that China is now a one party system which manages the transition to a capitalist economy very carefully. But they are in no way "communist" as Karl Marx or even Stalin would have understood it. CD Link to comment
LiuXia's Husband Posted June 10, 2004 Report Share Posted June 10, 2004 My wife tells me that the boss can also fine a worker. Never heard of that in America. Link to comment
Mick Posted June 10, 2004 Report Share Posted June 10, 2004 The five years I lived in China I can safely say that most, not all, but most of the products made for domestic consumption were far inferior to those made for export. I once bought an electric coffee pot, made in Shantou, that blew up and caught fire the first time I used it. I grabbed the fire extinguisher and the nozzle fell off in my hand. I could go on and on but I won't. Products produced for domestic consumption in China are perhaps getting better, but by far, the best stuff still gets shipped overseas. Link to comment
keelec Posted June 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2004 The five years I lived in China I can safely say that most, not all, but most of the products made for domestic consumption were far inferior to those made for export. I once bought an electric coffee pot, made in Shantou, that blew up and caught fire the first time I used it. I grabbed the fire extinguisher and the nozzle fell off in my hand. I could go on and on but I won't. Products produced for domestic consumption in China are perhaps getting better, but by far, the best stuff still gets shipped overseas.That is one scary thought... That the "good stuff" is what we see here Link to comment
NicolaNSam Posted June 11, 2004 Report Share Posted June 11, 2004 The five years I lived in China I can safely say that most, not all, but most of the products made for domestic consumption were far inferior to those made for export. I once bought an electric coffee pot, made in Shantou, that blew up and caught fire the first time I used it. I grabbed the fire extinguisher and the nozzle fell off in my hand. I could go on and on but I won't. Products produced for domestic consumption in China are perhaps getting better, but by far, the best stuff still gets shipped overseas.Shantou!! Do not get me started with Shantou and Chaozhou!! Anyone have fiance's from there? I lost SOOOOOOOOO much from that town!! The first time I went to China to order vases the guy that was with me had more experience. I met a guy from Shantou and my friend left the guy's place. I ordered and he begged me not to. I said how can you judge a guy from his entire town! Well he cheated me sooooooooooo bad! I almost lost my business before I started! Then........I go back and find another guy from Chaozhou.....next to shantou.......and he was SOOOOOO nice. He cheated me BAD too. I realized maybe the majority of people from that area are hard to deal with! No offense if anyone's MM is from there. Link to comment
tonyontherock Posted June 11, 2004 Report Share Posted June 11, 2004 quality is a real problem. It is not a result of being made in China. It is really a cost issue. Most stuff that are cheap are of poor quality. At the low end products they have to cut cost.Quality control is a serious problem for importers and if you want to insure quality, buy the darn factory and control it yourself. That is exactly what most people do in the business. You can't trust their quality, buy out the factory and make sure the workers produce it exactly as you specify or fire them all. There is no communist union to go on strike or use baseball bats to settle potential labor disputes as you would find it here. Link to comment
Martytb Posted June 11, 2004 Report Share Posted June 11, 2004 quality is a real problem. It is not a result of being made in China. It is really a cost issue. Most stuff that are cheap are of poor quality. At the low end products they have to cut cost.Quality control is a serious problem for importers and if you want to insure quality, buy the darn factory and control it yourself. That is exactly what most people do in the business. You can't trust their quality, buy out the factory and make sure the workers produce it exactly as you specify or fire them all. There is no communist union to go on strike or use baseball bats to settle potential labor disputes as you would find it here.Tony,So nice to hear from you! Link to comment
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