Travel Document

[Bert]

Hello, Everyone! It's been a long time.

 

Has anyone had to apply for a travel document to enter China from the US?

 

I was under the impression that once one had a US passport all one had to do is apply for a visa. That is not the case for my Chinese-born son. The same applies to children born in the US if at least one parent is Chinese and has not established residence. It's an effort to prevent dual citizenship. In the above case, the child is considered a Chinese citizen and therefore cannot be issued a visa. The child cannot be issued a Chinese passport because he has a US passport. The travel document gets around the dilemma.

 

The problem is that the family has to apply in person at the visa center, in our case, Washington, DC. In order to schedule an interview, an appointment has to be made online. It's all in Chinese. My wife has made three attempts, each time resulting in a three-day timeout. She's getting frustrated.

 

Is there anyone who has gone through the process who could describe it is such detail that I could use Google translate to get through it?

 

Thanks in advance.

[Randy W]

You had to have applied for an Exit Visa Travel Document so that he could leave China. Check that documentation to see if it didn't include a renunciation of his Chinese citizenship.

 

Who told you you need a Travel Document? You can try a different visa agency, or go the Consulate yourself. It may not be necessary, since your child has already traveled on his American passport.

 

If you don't have the citizenship renunciation, show the Exit Visa when applying for the visa.

 

 

You may still be required to use a Travel Document. If so, try to get out of that loop as soon as possible - must be done at your wife's PSB Entry & Exit Bureau

 

Applying to Renounce Chinese Citizenship

 

The child of one of our members was born in the United States BEFORE his (K-1) mother ever got her green card - they were put through the ringer over that - http://candleforlove.com/forums/topic/49552-newborn-son-needs-new-passport/?do=findComment&comment=638136

Edited December 8, 2018 by Randy W (see edit history)

[Bert]

Thanks for your response, Randy.

 

Entry/Exit permit doesn't provide any additional information.

 

"Who told you you need a Travel Document?"

 

Oasis Travel, which operates out of the same building as the Chinese Visa Center and is the preferred visa service, told me when I used them to acquire a visa. I confirmed it with the Visa Center and my wife has confirmed it with some of her friends. If you check the Chinese Embassy website, it says that it applies to children born in the US. But, if you read further, it says it applies to children born in China. It's true; no doubt.

 

"You can try a different visa agency, or go the Consulate yourself. It may not be necessary, since your child has already traveled on his American passport."

 

It's quite clear at this point. I have verified it with another visa service. The visa service had his passport as well as his Entry/Exit visa.

"If you don't have the citizenship renunciation, show the Exit Visa when applying for the visa."

I did. And once I have an appointment, I will have to show it to the Visa Center as well as his CRBA AND his Chinese birth certificate. My problem is making the appointment.

[Bert]

I would like to mention that there is another way. He can renounce his Chinese citizenship. A parent can do it for him. The only problem is that it can take months up to a year and it is not guaranteed to work.

[Randy W]

I would like to mention that there is another way. He can renounce his Chinese citizenship. A parent can do it for him. The only problem is that it can take months up to a year and it is not guaranteed to work.

 

 

must be done at his mother's PSB Entry & Exit Bureau in China

[Randy W]

The visa service had his passport as well as his Entry/Exit visa.

 

 

 

The Entry/Exit visa should allow return to China and apply to renounce citizenship.

 

Yes, they CAN put you through the wringer - try to get out of that loop as soon as you can.

[Bert]

 

I would like to mention that there is another way. He can renounce his Chinese citizenship. A parent can do it for him. The only problem is that it can take months up to a year and it is not guaranteed to work.

 

 

must be done at his mother's PSB Entry & Exit Bureau in China

 

My understanding is that it can be done in the US. It is just a matter of filing the paperwork. Perhaps we have to appear before the embassy or visa center.

 

That was part of the problem getting him out of Chinese. She had to go the PSB in her hometown and prove that he had lived there for two years, which he had not.

[Bert]

 

The visa service had his passport as well as his Entry/Exit visa.

 

 

 

The Entry/Exit visa should allow return to China and apply to renounce citizenship.

 

Yes, they CAN put you through the wringer - try to get out of that loop as soon as you can.

 

 

It's was only good for about three months. He's been here for a year.

[Randy W]

It seems like these requirements are changing VERY often.

 

Good luck - you might contact (PM) Greg.D., who went through all that fairly recently with his American born child.

 

The Travel Document Application pages on the Embassy's web site seem to translate VERY cleanly.

[Bert]

It seems like these requirements are changing VERY often.

 

Good luck - you might contact (PM) Greg.D., who went through all that fairly recently with his American born child.

 

The Travel Document Application pages on the Embassy's web site seem to translate VERY cleanly.

 

Thanks again, Randy.

 

Yeah. Looks like it is just one page. My wife should be able to fill it out. If not, I can do it with Google translate.

[Randy W]

My advice is to keep your possibilities open - my thought keeps falling back to two things:

 

1) They don't issue exit visas to Chinese citizens, except where they recognize the dual citizenship conflict. They are at least ACKNOWLEDGING his American citizenship.

2) The visa services tend to fall back to the 'worst cases' they've seen with other customers.

 

That is, when you speak to the consulate directly, they may be willing to issue a visa.

 

But then again, they HAVE been getting gradually stickier about the dual citizenship fiasco in recent years.

 

Basically, though, the issuance of a Travel Document indicates an acknowledgment on their part of the dual citizenship of a minor. Seems like they'd do better to allow you to renounce their citizenship, or to REQUIRE that you do so.

Edited December 9, 2018 by Randy W (see edit history)

[Randy W]

This won't apply to your case. but it might come in handy in case of disaster - remember that the American consulate can help, if need be.

This issue dates back at least 4 or 5 years - see Pro-Forma Visa to the US

 

- and -

 

***New policy for chinese born baby for exit***

The PSB's initially refused to issue exit visas to anyone they considered a Chinese citizen, even if they held an American passport.

The work around was to acquire a Chinese name and passport for the child. The American consulate would then issue a 'pro-forma' visa to the Chinese passport to allow the child to leave the country.

The solution was to apply for a Visitor's visa to be placed in the Chinese passport.

It is referred to as a 'pro-forma' visa because Visitor's visas are usually not issued to (nor are they needed) American citizens with American passports.

The problem, of course, is that the Chinese authorities are not recognizing her American citizenship, or the American passport and will not allow her to leave the country without a visa in her Chinese passport. The visa will not be needed to enter the U.S., but issued only for the purpose of allowing her to legally exit China.

The term pro forma (Latin for "as a matter of form" or "for the sake of form") is most often used to describe a practice or document that is provided as a courtesy and/or satisfies minimum requirements, conforms to a norm or doctrine, tends to be performed perfunctorily and/or is considered a formality.

 

This is how it's done for U.S. citizens - you may hear different stories from citizens of other countries, such as Great Britain.

 

The exit visas, like I've said, are an acknowledgment of the dual citizenship of the child.

Edited December 9, 2018 by Randy W (see edit history)

[Bert]

This won't apply to your case. but it might come in handy in case of disaster - remember that the American consulate can help, if need be.

This issue dates back at least 4 or 5 years - see Pro-Forma Visa to the US

 

- and -

 

***New policy for chinese born baby for exit***

 

The PSB's initially refused to issue exit visas to anyone they considered a Chinese citizen, even if they held an American passport.

 

The work around was to acquire a Chinese name and passport for the child. The American consulate would then issue a 'pro-forma' visa to the Chinese passport to allow the child to leave the country.

 

The solution was to apply for a Visitor's visa to be placed in the Chinese passport.

 

It is referred to as a 'pro-forma' visa because Visitor's visas are usually not issued to (nor are they needed) American citizens with American passports.

 

The problem, of course, is that the Chinese authorities are not recognizing her American citizenship, or the American passport and will not allow her to leave the country without a visa in her Chinese passport. The visa will not be needed to enter the U.S., but issued only for the purpose of allowing her to legally exit China.

 

The term pro forma (Latin for "as a matter of form" or "for the sake of form") is most often used to describe a practice or document that is provided as a courtesy and/or satisfies minimum requirements, conforms to a norm or doctrine, tends to be performed perfunctorily and/or is considered a formality.

 

This is how it's done for U.S. citizens - you may hear different stories from citizens of other countries, such as Great Britain.

 

The exit visas, like I've said, are an acknowledgment of the dual citizenship of the child.

 

Thanks for the follow-up. It might come in handy if we arrive in China and then try to leave again if they give us a problem.

 

The embassy seems a little pricky about calling it a visa. They don't issue visas to Chinese citizens. They corrected me telling that it is an Exit and Entry Permit. It is good for one exit and one entry within three months.

 

I watched the video again. They seemed to think that the Exit and Entry Permit was tantamount to renouncing their child's Chinese citizenship. That doesn't appear to be true. They were going back to China after a month. They wouldn't have seen a problem (unless they didn't bring the permit) because the permit is good for one entry. I wonder if they have tried to exit again. I also wonder if they were able to get a Chinese visa in her American passport. I'll research their videos.

 

Just to reiterate, it is a similar issue if the child is born in the US if the Chinese spouse doesn't have a green card at the time of birth. The child is considered Chinese by the Chinese government.

 

A friend told my wife that she got an "L" visa for her daughter three years ago and advised us to apply for an "L" visa. I looked on the embassy website. The conditions are the same; you must apply for a travel document. I did see where if your child renounces his citizenship, a sixty-day "L" visa is the only visa they will issue. I was originally trying to get a 180-day Q2 visa for both of us. I received a 90 day Q2 visa. From my point of view, it is no different than an "L" visa.

[Randy W]

 

 

Thanks for the follow-up. It might come in handy if we arrive in China and then try to leave again if they give us a problem.

 

The embassy seems a little pricky about calling it a visa. They don't issue visas to Chinese citizens. They corrected me telling that it is an Exit and Entry Permit. It is good for one exit and one entry within three months.

 

I watched the video again. They seemed to think that the Exit and Entry Permit was tantamount to renouncing their child's Chinese citizenship. That doesn't appear to be true. They were going back to China after a month. They wouldn't have seen a problem (unless they didn't bring the permit) because the permit is good for one entry. I wonder if they have tried to exit again. I also wonder if they were able to get a Chinese visa in her American passport. I'll research their videos.

 

Just to reiterate, it is a similar issue if the child is born in the US if the Chinese spouse doesn't have a green card at the time of birth. The child is considered Chinese by the Chinese government.

 

A friend told my wife that she got an "L" visa for her daughter three years ago and advised us to apply for an "L" visa. I looked on the embassy website. The conditions are the same; you must apply for a travel document. I did see where if your child renounces his citizenship, a sixty-day "L" visa is the only visa they will issue. I was originally trying to get a 180-day Q2 visa for both of us. I received a 90 day Q2 visa. From my point of view, it is no different than an "L" visa.

 

 

 

Yes - C-Milk and Vivi DID sign a citizenship renunciation form - that was the policy at the time in order to get an exit visa for the child She (Olivia) HAS left China and (I'm pretty sure) returned with a visa in her American passport with no problems. She IS an American citizen and recognized as such by the Chinese government. They are currently in the U.S., but I believe they visited China (mother and daughter, anyway) just last month.

 

I have ADVISED laowhy86 (C-Milk) both here and on VIsaJourney, but it was only about his wife's (Vivi's) I-130/green card application. They had no problems with exiting China, or getting a visa in Olivia's passport. Matt (C-Milk/laowhy86) is determined to have their 2nd child in the U.S., around the end of this month.

 

The only way OUT of the loop is to do what they did - renounce the child's citizenship at your earliest opportunity. Their paperwork for the exit visa DID include this renunciation.

 

Unfortunately, you have to do your own legwork, and jump through whatever hoops they present.

 

China's policy is inconsistent - they WANT to consider your child a Chinese citizen, but the American government will do what they can to get that child OUT of China, in spite of any regulations China has concerning its own citizens.

Edited December 9, 2018 by Randy W (see edit history)

[Randy W]

My suggestion stands - go to the mother's PSB in China and renounce the child's citizenship (I'm assuming they'll let you do that, of course).

 

Come to think of it, though - Baby Milk (Olivia) was left in New York when they traveled to Taiwan and Hong Kong recently. So she MAY not have applied for a Chinese visa in her American passport yet.

 

The video I posted earlier, though, is where he talks about renouncing her citizenship.

Edited December 9, 2018 by Randy W (see edit history)