The Odyssey - Democracy in Hong Kong

[Randy W]

Although dressed in rhetoric, this seems to me to state that China UNDERSTANDS the importance to both China AND the U.S. that Hong Kong's autonomy MUST be preserved. From the Global Times

 

US cannot cut off HK from the world

 

The calmness comes from Chinese people's clear understanding of Hong Kong's history and future and the great strength of China, making it impossible for Hong Kong to be a pawn of the US or the West. If some US politicians insist on walking toward a dead end, they will ruin US interests in the city. Although this may bring some trouble to China's development, it can never prevent China from rising.

The "one country, two systems" principle is not only in line with the interests of the mainland and Hong Kong, but also connects China with the West and with the world. It was an exploration and effort of all parties to reach a win-win situation under the mainland's relatively isolated condition at that time. Judging from Hong Kong's development and its current global status, the effort has been successful. The interaction between the mainland and Hong Kong is closer, and their connection with the world is wider. Development of global finance, economy and trade needs such connection.

 

[Randy W]

 

from the NY Times

 

 

 

Would-Be Chinese Defector Details Covert Campaigns in Hong Kong and Taiwan

 

 

The claims by an asylum seeker in Australia couldn’t be independently verified, but Western officials are treating them seriously.

 

 

“I do not want to see Taiwan becoming a second Hong Kong,” he wrote. “And I would not become an accomplice in the conspiracy of turning an originally democratic and free land into autocratic land.”

 

. . .

 

In his account, Mr. Wang said he was involved with the apprehension by Chinese agents in 2015 of five booksellers in Hong Kong, an incident often cited by demonstrators. He said he received orders “to pay close attention” to one of them, Lee Bo, for his involvement in publishing a gossipy book called “Xi Jinping and His Six Women” that purported to delve into the personal life of China’s top leader.

 

. . .

 

Mr. Wang’s allegations seem certain to reverberate widely in Taiwan, in Hong Kong and on the mainland. Although China’s intelligence operations in Taiwan and Hong Kong have long been presumed to be robust, the statement provided an extraordinary amount of detail.

 

 

 

 

from the SCMP

 

Explosive claims of ‘Chinese spy’ Wang Liqiang seem more fiction than fact

• The facts do not add up with the self-professed Chinese spy Wang Liqiang
• There’s a growing consensus he’s either a low-level operative grossly overstating his role or a scam artist

Self-confessed former Chinese spy Wang Liqiang speaks to Australian media, revealing the secret operations he was allegedly involved in. Photo: theage.com.au

 

But instead of putting Wang Liqiang in a secure location for a thorough debriefing which could take months, the Australian Security Intelligence Organisation apparently took a back seat and allowed some enthusiastic journalists to lead the investigation on what has been billed as the most significant spy defection since 1954, when a Russian KGB officer sought political asylum in Australia.

After just a few weeks, some Australian media outlets started to splash stories on the so-called “explosive” allegations of Chinese espionage in Australia and Beijing’s meddling in the pro-democracy movement in Hong Kong and elections in Taiwan.

However, significant doubts have since been cast on most of Wang’s sensational claims, including by a former senior intelligence official in Taiwan, prominent people named in the reports, and China’s state media, which started to dig into his background.

 

 

[Randy W]

This is from a pro-Beijing columnist for the SCMP

 

Time to concede to save Hong Kong

• It’s clear the government will have to meet at least a few of the protesters’ demands if its allies are not to be decimated in the coming Legislative Council election, and to return the city to normality

 

 

In the end, violence pays. The landslide victory for the anti-government camps in the district council elections shows Hong Kong people hate their government more than they love their city.

 

. . .

 

How? Well, government heads will have to roll. Beijing has made a serious mistake in keeping Chief Executive Carrie Lam Cheng Yuet-ngor. Along with secretaries for justice and security Teresa Cheng Yeuk-wah and John Lee Ka-chiu, Lam should be allowed to resign.

 

It’s clear the trio are too toxic for the current government to continue. Their presence will damage the pro-establishment parties for years to come, starting with the next Legco election. They should apologise to the public and thank the police for doing the job of an absentee government in the past six months.

Next, set up a special court to process speedily those caught during the riots and protests since June, with the understanding that prosecutors will exercise discretion under existing guidelines to treat those accused of non-violent or victimless crimes leniently. Community service without a criminal record should be the default penalty in such cases.

Set up a commission of inquiry looking into the causes of the unrest, including examining police conduct with a view to improvement, but without a mandate to punish or point fingers. Otherwise, Hong Kong can go bust.

 

[Greg.D.]

I like that: investigate the protestors and let the prosecutors be lenient; also investigate the police but, prior to even beginning such an investigation, lets all agree that their shall be no blame assigned to them or even finger pointing.

 

Also, pro-beijing dude from the pro-beijing SCMP: you can protest against the government (it's not THEIR government: it was installed by the Communist Party) BECAUSE you LOVE your city.

 

It sure gets awkward constantly finding words for why "it was good for us to have a revolution but it's not good for you to try it"

[Randy W]

I thought this was a good response in Quora, especially what he says about the Chief Executive under "two systems" - https://qr.ae/Te5jC6

Why was Hong Kong better off with British than with China? It wasn't having many protests back then.


12 Answers


Ben Olmsted, worked at Hong Kong
Answered Oct 8

I have lived in Hong Kong since before the handover.

These answers are completely ridiculous. No, the British led police would not kill you for protesting. That’s simply asinine. In political terms, 1967 had nothing to do with the boom period of the 80’s and 90’s.

The real difference is that under the British, we had leaders who actually led with the best interests of Hong Kong people in mind. Under the last governor, Chris Patten, who was broadly loved throughout the territory, Hong Kong made massive advances in our political rights, human rights, safety, historical conservation, anti-corruption, and standard of living.

Meanwhile, under Chinese rule, there is a real and credible feeling that the government is not leading with the best interests of the Hong Kong people in mind.

They have propped up the housing market to make developers and landlords rich while doing absolutely nothing to help the working class. They have built massive white elephant infrastructure projects to launder our money to Mainland China, against the wishes of the majority of Hong Kong people. They have ripped away our guaranteed right to self-rule until 2047, and tore away the promise of free elections. They have pushed for legislation that makes it easier for the Beijing government to punish political dissidents and tear away our constitutional right to free speech and assembly.

 

And now they have decided that the police force is a tool for enforcing violent authority, and not a benevolent, disciplined entity that keeps us safe.

Something that flew under many people’s radar was the utter disdain for the two systems concept admitted by Carrie Lam when she lamented that she “served two masters”. To me personally, this was one of the most offensive things she has ever said.

There is no legal foundation for the notion that our “two systems” CE answers to anyone except the people of Hong Kong. Our political autonomy is the very essence of what “two systems” represents.

Yes. We are much angrier under a totalitarian master who doesn’t have our best interests in mind than we were under a benevolent leadership who did.

That should make sense to anyone who believes in the betterment of society through freedom and universal empathy, and not rule by force.

 

[Randy W]

and from an "anti-beijing dude from the pro-beijing SCMP" . . .

 

 

"Michael Chugani is a Hong Kong journalist and TV show host"

 

Election landslide a protest vote against Beijing. But the violence will return if leaders don’t understand that

 

• By kicking out the loyalists and voting for the resistance, Hongkongers have shown they are not afraid to stand up to Beijing’s heavy hand. But the central government still claims foreign forces are somehow responsible for the election humiliation

Did you feel that fresh breeze sweeping across our city in the early hours of Monday? I did. To steal a phrase from the late United States president Ronald Reagan’s re-election campaign, it felt like “morning again” in Hong Kong after months of darkness.

 

. . .

 

Only a government devoid of all compassion would feel no guilt about trapping teenagers inside a rotting campus, starving them out, thereby forcing many to crawl through toxic sewers. Our undemocratically-elected leader Carrie Lam Cheng Yuet-ngor called it law enforcement.

Law enforcement? If she cares so much about the rule of law, why did she stay mute when senior mainland officials demanded that our judges curb the violence? Why did she not rebuke her security secretary John Lee Ka-chiu for essentially telling judges how to rule to end the unrest?

Let me remind Lam that our independent judiciary rules according to the law, not to the dictates of Beijing. Hong Kong’s electorate reminded her of more than that on Sunday by raising a middle finger for the world to see. And what a defiant finger it was, pointed at both Lam and Beijing.

 

. . .

 

About 60 per cent of voters – 1.6 million people – backed the resistance. She asked voters to say no to violence. Voters said no to her.

 

[Greg.D.]

China Has Lost Taiwan, and It Knows It

So it is attacking democracy on the island from within.

 

By Natasha Kassam

Ms. Kassam is a former Australian diplomat.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/01/opinion/china-taiwan-election.html?searchResultPosition=1

 

“Not a chance,” the president’s tweet said, in Chinese characters. That was the message from Tsai Ing-wen, the leader of Taiwan, on Nov. 5, after the Chinese government announced a string of initiatives to lure Taiwanese companies and residents to the mainland.

 

“Beijing’s new 26 measures are part of a greater effort to force a ‘one country, two systems’ model on #Taiwan,” Ms. Tsai’s tweet said, referring to the principle according to which Hong Kong — another territory Beijing eventually hopes to fully control — is supposed to be governed for now and its semiautonomy from Beijing guaranteed. “I want to be very clear: China’s attempts to influence our elections & push us to accept ‘one country, two systems’ will never succeed.” The protesters who have mobilized in Hong Kong for months say, in effect, that the principle is a lie.

 

In Taiwan, the Chinese government’s objective has long been what it calls “peaceful reunification” — “reunification” even though Taiwan has never been under the jurisdiction or control of the People’s Republic of China or the Chinese Communist Party. To achieve that goal, Beijing has for years tried to simultaneously coax and coerce Taiwan’s adhesion with both the promise of economic benefits and military threats. Early this year, President Xi Jinping of China reiterated that “complete reunification” was a “historic task.” “We make no promise to renounce the use of force and reserve the option of taking all necessary means,” he added.

 

Taiwan is gearing up for a presidential election in January. On Nov. 17, Ms. Tsai announced that the pro-independence William Lai Ching-te, a former prime minister, would be her running mate. On the same day, China sent an aircraft carrier through the Taiwan Strait. (In July, China had released its defense white paper, and it stated, “By sailing ships and flying aircraft around Taiwan, the armed forces send a stern warning to the ‘Taiwan independence’ separatist forces.”) Joseph Wu, Taiwan’s foreign minister, reacted by tweeting: “#PRC intends to intervene in #Taiwan’s elections. Voters won’t be intimidated! They’ll say NO to #China at the ballot box.”

 

........

 

Beijing, by flexing its muscle, seems to have succeeded only in pushing the Taiwanese away. A series of missile tests by the People’s Liberation Army in the lead-up to Taiwan’s March 1996 presidential election was designed to intimidate voters and turn them away from re-electing the nationalist Lee Teng-hui. One of his opponents, Chen Li-an, warned, “If you vote for Lee Teng-hui, you are choosing war.” Mr. Lee won comfortably over three other candidates, with 54 percent of the popular vote.

[Randy W]

Beijing is used to DEFINING the narrative that everyone discusses.

 

In Hong Kong, they don't get to do that.

 

Did Beijing’s echo chamber render it deaf to Hong Kong’s distress?

• Beijing’s shocked silence at Hong Kong’s election results suggests that it had succumbed to an echo chamber of its own making and completely misread the situation. The question is: is Beijing asking itself how it got it so wrong?

In the run-up to the election, People’s Daily ran a series of articles with titles such as “Hong Kong citizens’ view: ‘District councillors should serve the people more, not just shout political slogans’”, “Hong Kong's political circles say: Community livelihoods the focus of district elections, votes should be used to say no to violence and rioters”, “Hong Kong communities want district elections to focus on improving people’s livelihood”.

 

. . .

 

China’s state media have downplayed the election results. They have failed to acknowledge that, contrary to their prediction, political identity, rather than livelihoods, determined the outcome.

 

[Randy W]

a little bit of Hong Kong politics - from the SCMP

 

Hong Kong’s pro-government camp put in impossible situation by opposition’s futile bid to unseat city leader Carrie Lam

• Frustrated pro-establishment camp vexed by chief executive’s aloof manner and inability to curb roiling protests that have lasted almost six months
• But leader of largest pro-Beijing party Starry Lee admits unseating Lam would only create more chaos, instability and a power vacuum

 

 

 

Pro-Beijing lawmakers in Hong Kong have slammed the city’s leader as “aloof” and unable to curb months of social unrest, but they still blocked a motion from the opposition aiming to unseat her.

A motion to remove Chief Executive Carrie Lam Cheng Yuet-ngor from office, launched under Article 73 of the Basic Law, the city’s mini-constitution, failed to pass through the Legislative Council on Thursday. It received 16 votes for and 14 against in the geographical constituency and 10 votes for and 22 against in the functional constituency. The motion needed a majority in both constituencies to pass.

. . .

Had the impeachment motion passed, it would have triggered an inquiry headed by the city’s top judge. If such an inquiry found sufficient evidence to impeach the chief executive and the motion was passed by a two-thirds legislative majority, Beijing would have had to decide whether to unseat Lam.

 

 

[Randy W]

Does ANYONE like Carrie Lam? Is there another jurisdiction ANYWHERE in the world that would keep her in power?

 

How much damage has Carrie Lam done to Hong Kong politics since 2016? Beijing must keep count

• The chief executive has apologised to the political casualties of her extradition bill, but seems incapable of changing her ways. When Beijing evaluates her work during her duty visit, will it tally all the arrogant mistakes she has made?

​​

 

Most in Hong Kong thought the chaos and violence would end, after the beating the pro-establishment took at the polls. It didn’t. Lam has offloaded her work onto the police. She has done nothing to curb the violence. The government has only issued statement after statement after statement condemning violence and placed public service advertisements. Surely, the months of mayhem require a stronger solution than what Lam and her team have been willing to give.

 

. . .

 

Back then, Lam said the secrecy was necessary because she wanted to avoid an “embarrassing” situation where the Hong Kong public would have a chance to oppose the museum project. As chief executive, she has now put Beijing in an even more embarrassing situation.

This is how things are done the Carrie Lam way: amid fire and fury, she has wrecked the future of “one country, two systems” and of Hong Kong.

 

 

 

 

Chinese President Xi Jinping praises Hong Kong leader Carrie Lam’s ‘courage and commitment in unusual times’, as he reiterates support for police

• President says chief executive has stood firm on principle of ‘one country, two systems’
• Premier Li Keqiang earlier says city’s chief executive has Beijing’s backing, but warns she must tackle ‘deep-rooted conflicts and problems’

[Randy W]

I am still under the assumption that Hong Kong can afford to repair the physical damage that's been done to their city. but this article is more forward looking to the long lasting effects it might have.

 

Have anti-government protests cooked Hong Kong’s financial goose?

• Half a year has passed since the turmoil began, bringing disruptions to business, a retail sales slump and a recession in the third quarter
• In the second part in a series on the road ahead for Hong Kong, we look at the city’s special role as a gateway into mainland China

Unrest has brought disruptions to business, a retail sales slump and a recession in the third quarter. Illustration: Lau Ka-kuen

 

“New customers have halved in recent weeks – from meeting seven to eight potential customers to three or four, resulting in a 30 to 40 per cent drop in salary,” said Lau, who requested that his first name not be used.

“Some potential customers who cancelled said they have no interest in this kind of future financial planning right now,” said Lau, who is in his mid-30s and has a commission-based salary.

Lau’s problems are an example of how businesspeople in Hong Kong – one of the world’s premier financial centres and a funnel for hundreds of billions of dollars in investment in and out of China – have faced disruptions caused by the protests and rallies.

Tear gas and Molotov cocktails do nothing to help the city’s image, but at the grass-roots level the chaos in transport networks, such as the firebombing of subways and tunnel tollbooths, means businesses can’t function. Lau said many of his meetings were cancelled because people just couldn’t get around.

 

. . .

 

Hong Kong’s value

It’s “meaningless” to judge Hong Kong’s economic importance to China by the size of its GDP, Huang said at a Nankai University forum in southern Guangdong province on September 10. Shanghai, Shenzhen and other cities may grow much larger in economic terms over the next 20 years, but Hong Kong’s position would be irreplaceable, because of the “one country, two systems” structure, he said.

Huang was the mayor of Chongqing from 2010 to 2016 and took credit for turning it into the biggest economic driver in southwest China. “One country, two systems is good for the development of Hong Kong and especially good for the development of China,” he said.

“The value of Hong Kong lies exactly in being a financial, economic, trade and logistics hub under a capitalist system,” said Huang, who is now a vice-chairman at the state-backed public policy think tank China Centre for International Economic Exchanges.

The “proportion of foreign investment through Hong Kong into China has remained more than 50 per cent [of the total] throughout the last 40 years despite the great changes in China’s economy”, he said.

. . .

The free movement of capital to both onshore and offshore markets has also made the city the largest offshore yuan trading centre, a key role as Beijing pursues efforts to internationalise China’s currency. Hong Kong also offers special access to China’s equity and fixed income markets through the Stock and Bond Connect systems to capital markets on the mainland.

. . .

“Hong Kong’s economic foundations are based on free capital movement while mainland China still maintains a relatively closed capital account,” said Alicia Garcia Herrero, Asia-Pacific chief economist at Natixis in Hong Kong. “This means Hong Kong can facilitate China’s access to foreign capital.”

But Thilo Hanemann, a partner at research house Rhodium Group, said the protests and the response to them had only had “a minor impact” on investment flows into China as of now, but that could change.

“We haven’t reached that point yet, where the perception of Hong Kong as an investment destination is irreparably damaged,” he said when speaking to diplomats and bankers in Hong Kong in late November.

“But there are looming longer-term concerns about the situation potentially escalating, and undermining the rule of law and institutional set-up that have made Hong Kong such a special place for international investors,” he said.

 

Edited December 23, 2019 by Randy W (see edit history)

[Randy W]

First mention of what happens after 2047?

https://www.facebook.com/355665009819/posts/10157927602354820/

Edited June 25, 2021 by Randy W (see edit history)

[Randy W]

 

 

China's explanation?

 

from the China Law Blog

 

China Imposes Blackout on Hong Kong Bookseller’s Revelations

 

the Global Times editorial followed a predictable line — at least initially. It warned that although Hong Kong is governed by different laws from the rest of China, “all different forces in Hong Kong must respect the political system in China. It’s not right to take actions which may harm the state security and the political stability in mainland China.”

 

. . .

 

But by later on Friday morning, the link to the Global Times article had been severed.

 

 

 

 

And again ?? from the SCMP

 

Taiwanese man missing after entering Hong Kong ‘being investigated by mainland’

• Mainland authorities say they are investigating Lee Meng-chu for ‘activities that endanger state security’

 

Chinese military vehicles parked by Shenzhen Bay Stadium on August 16. Photo: AP

 

Lee entered Hong Kong on August 18, Taiwan’s government-run Central News Agency reported. He apparently sent photos to his brother and to a Taiwanese township chief showing the paramilitary troops and equipment on the Hong Kong border with mainland China, the agency said.

 

 

 

 

 

 

UPDATE Feb 25, 2020 from the HKFP

Bookseller Gui Minhai jailed for 10 years in China for ‘illegally providing intelligence’ to overseas parties

https://www.hongkongfp.com/2020/02/25/bookseller-gui-minhai-jailed-10-years-china-illegally-providing-intelligence-overseas-parties/

 

Detained bookseller Gui Minhai was sentenced to 10 years in jail in China on Monday after being found guilty of “illegally providing intelligence” to overseas parties.

 

 

. . . or the SCMP article

 

https://amp.scmp.com/news/china/politics/article/3052197/china-jails-hong-kong-bookseller-gui-minhai-10-years

 

 

Gui, a Swedish national, ran Causeway Bay Books in Hong Kong – an outlet known for selling gossipy titles about Chinese Communist Pary officials. He was one of five booksellers who disappeared in 2015. The Monday court statement also said Gui “agreed to restore his Chinese citizenship” in 2018, a move which Beijing could use to deny him consular assistance from European diplomats.

[Randy W]

The looming 2047 expiration of the Basic Law has to weigh in heavily on this.

 

$8HKD ~ $1USD

 

Hongkongers are selling their homes at huge losses to flee the city as coronavirus weighs on Economy

 

 

 

Homeowners are dumping their properties in Hong Kong for as much as HK$11.6 million in losses to pack up their bags and escape the city’s social and economic gloom.

 

 

 

[Randy W]

Joshua Wong infiltrates Animal Crossing.

 

from Abacus

 

Animal Crossing removed in China amid flood of Hong Kong protest art

 

 

Familiar slogans from the Hong Kong protests that started last summer began popping up in Animal Crossing. (Picture: Joshua Wong/Twitter)

The hit Nintendo Switch game Animal Crossing: New Horizons has become a virtual meeting space for Hong Kong protesters

 

Why? No official reason was given. But Chinese Animal Crossing fans are blaming one person in particular for the takedown: Hong Kong activist Joshua Wong.

 

It turns out that the game’s customizable islands have become rife with political decor, both in mainland China and Hong Kong. And on Thursday, Wong tweeted in support of Hong Kong protesters creating protest art inside the game. The game has recently become a virtual space for Hong Kong protesters to meet without breaking the city’s social distancing rules during the Covid-19 pandemic.

 

Screenshots of customized virtual islands that take aim at Chinese President Xi Jinping and Hong Kong Chief Executive Carrie Lam have gone viral on Twitter.