Chinese Retirement Income

[Randy W]

 

Basically, that money comes from SOMEWHERE! It would be interesting to know what's behind it, what restrictions there are, who it's available to, how long the income is generated, etc.

 

Yes, it comes from taxes. Keep in mind that China is still classified as socialist so they spread the wealth around. Some Chinese people work and have funds withdrawn every pay period. These funds are deposited into their personal account. Retirement income is available to all Chinese citizens whether they received income or not. So, the money given to those who did not work comes from the Chinese citizens who do work. If you want to read more details, you can search for PDF documents in English that explain Chinese law relating to social insurance.

 

 

 

Yes, that's easy enough to do.

 

Retirement and Savings Plans in China

David Moo,

Hewitt

Associates

July 2009

http://www.actuaries.org/PBSS/Colloquia/Tokyo/MOO_DavidP.pdf

The current social insurance pension plan in China was established by State Council

Document No. 26, issued on July 1, 1997 and updated by Document No. 38 in 2005.

The plan is broadly consistent with World Bank recommendations

 

 

We are NOT talking about those plans here. We are talking about something else. My question is what.

[Guest ExChinaExpat]

Actually, this is a thread I started referring to income from work in China. I am not in any way whatsoever mentioning an investment with a banking outfit. I am talking only about income from the Chinese government, period. If you would like to hijack this thread and change it into an investment discussion, then please feel free to start your own thread.

[Randy W]

We are talking about a scheme where you can invest 3000 units of currency, and get back 3600 units within two years. And CONTINUE receiving payments. That's a 60% return on your investment every year.

 

That's unheard of

 

Even if the 3000 figure is USD, and the payments are in RMB, that's still a 10% annual return for life, on a simple investment. WHAT IS BEING INVESTED WHERE??

 

Read the pdf's - you'll see that one problem the Chinese Social Security pension system is facing is a LOW RATE OF RETURN, which may not provide an adequate income for its aging population.

[Dennis143]

Actually, this is a thread I started referring to income from work in China. I am not in any way whatsoever mentioning an investment with a banking outfit. I am talking only about income from the Chinese government, period. If you would like to hijack this thread and change it into an investment discussion, then please feel free to start your own thread.

Well then why in the hell do you jump into the discussion and then decide later that that's not what you want to discuss?

[Guest ExChinaExpat]

 

Actually, this is a thread I started referring to income from work in China. I am not in any way whatsoever mentioning an investment with a banking outfit. I am talking only about income from the Chinese government, period. If you would like to hijack this thread and change it into an investment discussion, then please feel free to start your own thread.

Well then why in the hell do you jump into the discussion and then decide later that that's not what you want to discuss?

 

 

Sorry for that. I did it because I was confused about how one initiates payments after retirement in China. When you and John brought up making an initial payment, I simply thought it was a government imposed fee. So, my bad on that.

 

Now, from the other side of the coin, all people who work in China are entitled to government money after retirement.

[Randy W]

Actually, this is a thread I started referring to income from work in China. I am not in any way whatsoever mentioning an investment with a banking outfit. I am talking only about income from the Chinese government, period. If you would like to hijack this thread and change it into an investment discussion, then please feel free to start your own thread.

 

I'll have to refer you to the original poster on that one - no mention is made of 'work' in either the title or the first post.

 

Is anyone familiar with Chinese retirement income? For example, the Chinese have a similar system as US Social Security. When a Chinese citizen retires they receive a monthly pension payment. However, when a Chinese citizen chooses to become a US citizen they must surrender their Chinese citizenship because China does not allow dual citizenship. If the Chinese citizen becomes a US citizen do they lose their right to collect their Chinese retirement pension?

 

 

 

But yes, we DO seem to be talking about two different systems - one for workers, which gives a MUCH lower rate of return and must be paid into over a period of time (15 years?), and another that can simply be BOUGHT with an almost immediate return on the investment.

[tsap seui]

My wife worked in China. The most she ever made a month as far as I know was 800 yuan a month. She had who knows what funds taken out and what was paid in by her employers. After I met her and we became a couple she stopped working and I helped her keep up her retirement account....$500usd payments twice and I think she paid out a final $2,000usd in May so she could pay off her retirement account. Just after she came home in September she started getting direct deposit's into her Chinese bank account of 1,400 yuan a month. Not that it matters a whit but what's 1,400 yuan... $233.33usd a month? At any rate, it'll just sit in her account, along with the converted $50,000usd I sent over each year since 2008, drawing whatever interest they give in China and it will be spent in China when she and I, or she goes back to live in China.

 

It's not much money as expensive as China is to live these days...but....it's just a piece of her retirement pie, and it's better than nothing being deposited into her account by the Chinese whomevers. Plus, she was given her doctors and hospital insurance plan, (over there), along with her retirement plan they gave her. Seems like she said they have different tiers of insurance and she took one of the top tiers.

 

Never been much of a financial advisor but if yore lady ain't becoming a US citizen in her lifetime or even if she does and can trust someone in China to send her her money, those Chinartuckian retirement plans....are better than not having one. I know I didn't give over $3,000usd on this one. Looks like it will take her 13 or 14 months to overcome what I paid in for her.

Edited November 20, 2013 by tsap seui (see edit history)

[Guest ExChinaExpat]

 

Actually, this is a thread I started referring to income from work in China. I am not in any way whatsoever mentioning an investment with a banking outfit. I am talking only about income from the Chinese government, period. If you would like to hijack this thread and change it into an investment discussion, then please feel free to start your own thread.

 

I'll have to refer you to the original poster on that one - no mention is made of 'work' in either the title or the first post.

 

Is anyone familiar with Chinese retirement income? For example, the Chinese have a similar system as US Social Security. When a Chinese citizen retires they receive a monthly pension payment. However, when a Chinese citizen chooses to become a US citizen they must surrender their Chinese citizenship because China does not allow dual citizenship. If the Chinese citizen becomes a US citizen do they lose their right to collect their Chinese retirement pension?

 

 

 

But yes, we DO seem to be talking about two different systems - one for workers, which gives a MUCH lower rate of return and must be paid into over a period of time (15 years?), and another that can simply be BOUGHT with an almost immediate return on the investment.

 

 

 

Yes, we are talking about two different things. I read English PDF documents several months back that detailed the retirement income for China workers. I don't recall how much a worker gets after retirement, but as I recall it's according to ones income. In other words, if you make a lot of money your retirement income will be higher than someone who makes less. Now surely, if there are additional investments one can make to subsidize that income, then that is just good planning for later years.

[Randy W]

from the Global Times

 

Raising retirement age an inevitable trend

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/826175.shtml?utm_content=buffer936b1&utm_source=buffer&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=Buffer#.UowYOdJ9efM

 

Delaying retirement is related to the interests of all workers. Topic of social security attracts the most attention on the Internet. China apparently faces stern challenges to proceed with the reform.

Some will be discontent with the reform. This requires the media and intellectuals to take great efforts to clarify for the public a real picture of the pension situation, instead of making use of the resentment in public opinion to score points of their own. The public must understand that raising the retirement age is the result of an increasing average lifespan for Chinese. It has nothing to do with politics or the interests of special groups.

Deferring retirement cannot be realized in a shower of applause. The government should be courageous enough to bear the opposition from the public in order to secure the long-term interests of the Chinese people and maintain China's global competitiveness. As long as the reform is finalized and eventually benefits the public, negative sentiments toward it in public opinion will vanish.

[Randy W]

 

 

 

But yes, we DO seem to be talking about two different systems - one for workers, which gives a MUCH lower rate of return and must be paid into over a period of time (15 years?), and another that can simply be BOUGHT with an almost immediate return on the investment.

 

 

 

Yes, we are talking about two different things. I read English PDF documents several months back that detailed the retirement income for China workers. I don't recall how much a worker gets after retirement, but as I recall it's according to ones income. In other words, if you make a lot of money your retirement income will be higher than someone who makes less. Now surely, if there are additional investments one can make to subsidize that income, then that is just good planning for later years.

 

 

 

Tsap gave a figure of ¥1400 for his wife.That's pretty much what the minimum wage is these days (the KFC was hiring at that figure not long ago), but also, to a large degree, a MAXIMUM wage for a lot of people. College graduates will often hire it at an even lower "training" wage.

 

I believe the insurance that Tsap mentioned is a required purchase by the retiree - we had to help Jiaying's mother out for a couple weeks once when her insurance payment came due before she was to receive the rental income that she lives on.

[Guest ExChinaExpat]

 

from the Global Times

 

Raising retirement age an inevitable trend

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/826175.shtml?utm_content=buffer936b1&utm_source=buffer&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=Buffer#.UowYOdJ9efM

 

Delaying retirement is related to the interests of all workers. Topic of social security attracts the most attention on the Internet. China apparently faces stern challenges to proceed with the reform.

 

Some will be discontent with the reform. This requires the media and intellectuals to take great efforts to clarify for the public a real picture of the pension situation, instead of making use of the resentment in public opinion to score points of their own. The public must understand that raising the retirement age is the result of an increasing average lifespan for Chinese. It has nothing to do with politics or the interests of special groups.

 

Deferring retirement cannot be realized in a shower of applause. The government should be courageous enough to bear the opposition from the public in order to secure the long-term interests of the Chinese people and maintain China's global competitiveness. As long as the reform is finalized and eventually benefits the public, negative sentiments toward it in public opinion will vanish.

 

Reading that makes me feel like I'm listening to a political spin-session. But then, I'm not one who typically believes when a government pees on my leg and tells me it's raining.

Edited November 20, 2013 by GuangDongExpat (see edit history)

[johnxiaoying]

 

A $3000 investment (whether RMB or USB) generating $150 every month - that's a 5% return every month, or 60% a year. Where's the money coming from?

 

On the other hand, of course, don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

 

But then a $3000USD investment (the amount Dennis handed his wife, if I read that right) generating ¥150 (taken in China) would be more like 1% a month, or 12% a year - still a VERY good return, especially considering that it began immediately (again assuming that I read THAT right).

 

What I read was for John it's now 3200 (unknown currency) investment. Not sure if that's RMB or USD. Then, she will receive 1200 RMB per month. None of these add up to the 50K USD that Dennis mentioned.

 

So, if one spends 3200, USD to initiate the monthly payments that according to John are 1200 RMB per month, which at current conversion rates about $197.00 USD. If were talking USD here, it would take a little more than 16 months to recoup the original 3200 USD investment. It's a bit confusing as both John and Dennis seem to be mixing currency calculations.

 

$3200 is dollars. Wife has a friend who retired from the China social security system that got her set up a-z today. As often turns out what we hear from our spouse's can turn out considerably different, this is the current situation . Her friend advised her to put in approx. 40,000 yuan for a monthly payout of 2,000 yuan. Something about the payout will change year to year. Whatever in the he'll that means which was in response to my trying to point out that 1200 for 20,000 was a better rate than 2,000 for 40,000. Then she said she didn't really understand it. I quit on that one.

 

Enough for now, pc is down and I'm about to toss this freaking kindle.

Edited November 20, 2013 by johnxiaoying (see edit history)

[tsap seui]

Hang in there John. let them Chinese wimmin take care of what goes on in Chinartucky...I never asked any questions, just said my usual "that's nice lil' rabbit" and let her drive the bus.

 

As far as that computer jazz...I love beating up computers. Send me any that are giving you a fit and I'll gladly send you a video of me unmercifully bashing it out of your misery, complete with lots of cussing, kicking, stomping, and even use of a baseball bat. That offer goes for the rest of the cast and crew of Candle, too.

 

tsap seui

[Trigg]

Would someone much smarter than me explain how to prove my wife is alive?

she has been a US citizen for 5 years. She has been getting her Chinese retirement money sent to a bank in China. Now the Chinese Gov wants proof she is alive. She's a bit slow sometimes but I'm pretty sure she's alive.

Are there forms or procedures other than going 700 miles to the Chinese embassy?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Randy W]

Would someone much smarter than me explain how to prove my wife is alive?

she has been a US citizen for 5 years. She has been getting her Chinese retirement money sent to a bank in China. Now the Chinese Gov wants proof she is alive. She's a bit slow sometimes but I'm pretty sure she's alive.

Are there forms or procedures other than going 700 miles to the Chinese embassy?

 

 

 

Why, Hello dere !!

 

Yes - from what I've heard, the procedure is that she will need to show up at the PSB. I'll see if I can't find anything out about that, though.