China on the South China Seas

[Greg.D.]

Well, something's gotta give. And, there might be some "face-loss". And, China is a signatory to "Unclos" - and its jurisdiction. I love China and I now have family there - and I know how proud they are of their president and their 50,000 years of history and being situated in the middle of the universe - but there will be a showdown. We don't talk politics so I don't know how they view the South China Seas issue.

 

 

The U.S. is heading toward a dangerous showdown with China

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/...

 

The confrontation has been building for the past three years, as China has constructed artificial islands off its southern coast and installed missiles and radar in disputed waters, despite U.S. warnings. It could come to a head this spring, when an arbitration panel in The Hague is expected to rule that China is making “excessive” claims about its maritime sovereignty.

 

One trigger for escalation could be China’s response to the forthcoming ruling by the arbitration panel in The Hague in a case brought by the Philippines in 2013. The Philippines argued that China was making an “excessive claim” to nearly all the South China Sea by asserting what it calls the “nine-dash line,” based on old maps and claims. The panel will probably issue its ruling in April or May, and Campbell and other knowledgeable experts predict that it will carefully validate the Philippine position.

 

What will China do next? .....

 

Edited March 16, 2016 by Greg.D. (see edit history)

[Randy W]

I think that the Chinese attitude (which the people subscribe to) about the South China Seas issue is a very simple one - they OWN the South China Seas in the same way that YOU own your back yard. They're not willing to submit that to arbitration any more than you would be willing to negotiate with a squatter who happened to set up a tent in a corner of your back yard. It will be interesting to see how it plays out

[warpedbored]

I don't think the rest of the world can stand by and let China have the whole 9 dash line. It violates several maritime treaties and would give them total control of one of the most important shipping lanes in the world. It's also an insult to the sovereignty of the Philippines, Vietnam Thailand and every other nation that sits on the South China sea.

[Randy W]

in the NYT

 

China’s Coast Guard Rams Fishing Boat to Free It From Indonesian Authorities

 

 

Quote

The high-seas confrontation also indicated that Indonesia might be toughening its stance toward China in the region.

 

. . .

 

Indonesian personnel boarded the Chinese boat, the Kway Fey; took its captain and eight-member crew into custody; and began towing the ship back to a base on the Natuna Islands, Mr. Arrmanatha said.

But around midnight, he said, a Chinese Coast Guard vessel, which had been following the Indonesian ship, approached it on or inside the 12-nautical-mile line marking Indonesia’s territorial waters.

The Chinese Coast Guard vessel rammed the fishing boat, apparently to compel the Indonesian authorities to release it, he said.

“To prevent anything else occurring, the Indonesian authorities let go of the Chinese boat and then left toward Natuna, still with eight fishermen and the captain on board,” Mr. Arrmanatha said, adding that the Indonesian crew was “only lightly armed.”

. . .

Later on Monday, a spokeswoman for the Chinese Foreign Ministry, Hua Chunying, called the area where the episode took place “traditional Chinese fishing grounds” and said the coast guard vessel had not entered Indonesian territorial waters.

 

The incident was apparently near Natuna at the southern tip of the "nine dash line"

 

Edited June 6, 2021 by Randy W (see edit history)

[Randy W]

After a build-up of tensions between approaching warships

 

 

Patrolling Disputed Waters, U.S. and China Jockey for Dominance

 

Still no response.

Captain Renshaw turned to Ensign Li. “You’re up,” he said. “They can’t pretend they don’t speak Chinese.”

“Chinese Warship 575, this is U.S. Warship 62,” Ensign Li said in Chinese. “Today is a sunny day for a sea voyage, over.”

More minutes ticked by. Ensign Anthony Giancana, the junior officer on deck for the morning, was getting antsy. “This is like Opening Day,” he said to no one in particular. “We’ve done spring training.”

Suddenly, the radio crackled again as the frigate responded in Chinese: “U.S. Warship 62, this is Chinese Warship 575. Today’s weather is great. It is a pleasure to meet you at sea.”

Ensign Li responded, also in Chinese: “This is U.S. Warship 62. The weather is indeed great. It is a pleasure to meet you, too, over.”

. . .

“U.S. Navy Warship 62, this is Chinese Navy Warship 575,” came a new message. “Do you continue to have long-term voyage at sea? Over.”

Another no-no. Telling the Chinese the intended duration of the trip could be an inherent acknowledgment that they had the right to know, Captain Renshaw said. And that is not considered freedom of navigation.

“This is U.S. Navy Warship 62,” Captain Renshaw responded. “Roger, all of our voyages are short because we enjoy our time at sea no matter how long we are away from home. Over.”

As it happened, the Chinese ship had a ready answer for that.

“U.S. Navy Warship 62, this is Chinese Navy Warship 575,” came the reply. “Copy that I will be staying along with you for the following days. Over.”

 

[Randy W]

On another level . . . in the Washington Post

 

Fishing amid territorial disputes in the South China Sea

 

 

At another level, they are cat-and-mouse chases between the coast guards of several countries and foreign fishermen, and among the fishing boats themselves.

 

Indonesia seized a Chinese fishing boat last month and arrested eight fishermen, only to have a Chinese coast guard vessel ram the fishing boat as it was being towed, allowing it to escape.

 

Vietnam’s coast guard chased away more than 100 Chinese boats over a two-week period, its state media reported this week, and made a rare seizure of a Chinese ship carrying 100,000 liters (26,400 gallons) of diesel oil, reportedly for sale to fishing boats in the area.

 

. . .

 

 

More than once, a small team of Chinese coast guardsmen on a rubber boat approached his boat and pointed their rifles at him, but he says he knew they would not fire and risk starting a war.

 

At other times, the Chinese will surge as if to hit his boat, but the 37-year-old fisherman uses his keen knowledge of Scarborough Shoal — where he has fished for Spanish mackerel, trevally and grouper since he was a teenager — to outmaneuver them.

 

Etac says he just wants to defend his livelihood in waters that used to be open to all. China took control of Scarborough Shoal in 2012 after a two-month standoff with Philippine government ships. It sits about 230 kilometers (145 miles) west of the Philippines, and 1,000 kilometers (620 miles) from the Chinese coast.

 

“It’s like quarreling, like playing games,” he says. “Yelling, dirty finger, everything’s there. Sometimes I use expletives in different dialects and I get to laugh when I see them, because they don’t understand what I’m saying.”

 

He enjoys what he calls the territorial “debates” in the high seas, though his earnings from a weeklong fishing expedition have dropped by more than half to 3,000 pesos ($63), because of both the Chinese disruptions and competition.

 

“He’s like the guardian of Scarborough, sir,” said Greggy Etac, a relative and a fellow fisherman. “I used to sail with him, but now, I’m scared.”

 

— Jim Gomez in Cato, Philippines.

 

Other stories follow in the article.

[Randy W]

Some advice for the next American president from the South China Morning Post

5 foreign policy pointers for the next US president

Victor must tackle terror, be tough on Putin and China, watch the rogue states, and rebuild army

● Stiff-arm China. Beijing’s leaders envision an Asia without America. Over the course of the next president’s term, they must become convinced that this dream is an illusion. China is not looking for a third world war. Its goal is to win without fighting, to convince the US to stand idly by while Beijing carves out an expansive sphere of influence.

To frustrate Beijing’s plan without escalating the competition to open conflict, the US must show it has the economic, diplomatic and military influence to flex its muscles from across the Indo-Pacific. The US will also have to demonstrate it is not acting alone. We need a concert of Asian powers, including South Korea, Japan, Australia and India, letting China know that Beijing must conform to international norms, not rewrite the rules for the Middle Kingdom’s benefit.

 

This article is attributed to this guy, but apparently published intact and without coment by the South China Morning Post

 

James Jay Carafano is the vice-president of the Davis Institute for National Security and Foreign Policy and the E. W. Richardson Fellow at The Heritage Foundation in Washington

 

Edited May 2, 2016 by Randy W (see edit history)

[Randy W]

This may stir things up a little . . .

 

Vietnam Arms Embargo to Be Fully Lifted, Obama Says in Hanoi

 

 

 

The United States is rescinding a decades-old ban on sales of lethal military equipment to Vietnam, President Obama announced at a news conference in Hanoi on Monday, ending one of the last legal vestiges of the Vietnam War.

 

The United States has long made lifting the embargo contingent on Vietnam’s improving its human rights record, and recently administration officials had hinted that the ban could be removed partly in response to China’s buildup in the South China Sea.

 

But Mr. Obama portrayed the decision as part of the long process of normalizing relations between the two countries after the Vietnam War.

 

. . . . “It was based on our desire to complete what has been a lengthy process of moving toward normalization with Vietnam.”

 

. . . . “But what we do not have is a ban that is based on an ideological division between our two sides.”

 

As for human rights, he said, “this is an area where we still have differences.”

 

. . .

 

 

“The arms embargo is a product of the Cold War and should never have existed,” Hua Chunying, a spokeswoman for the Foreign Ministry, said during a regular news briefing in Beijing. “We welcome normal relations between Vietnam and the United States.”

Edited May 23, 2016 by Randy W (see edit history)

[tsap seui]

I say sell the Vietnamese every weapon they will buy. Good Lord knows, we need the money to pay on our debt to China.

 

[Greg.D.]

South China Sea: 'We have no fear of trouble,' Chinese admiral warns

China has rebuffed US pressure to curb its activity in the South China Sea on Sunday, restating its sovereignty over most of the disputed territory and saying it “has no fear of trouble”.

 

On the last day of Asia’s biggest security summit in Singapore, Admiral Sun Jianguo said China will not be bullied, including over a pending international court ruling over its claims on the vital trade route.

 

“We do not make trouble, but we have no fear of trouble,” Sun told the Shangri-La Dialogue, where more than 600 security, military and government delegates had gathered over three days. ............

 

On the upcoming decision by the international tribunal in The Hague in the case brought by the Philippines to contest China’s claims in the territory, Sun reiterated Beijing does not recognise the court’s authority.

 

[danb]

A couple of days ago there was another article I saw on MSN that talked the South China Sea problem/conflict::

 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-vows-actions-if-china-builds-new-s-china-sea-structures/ar-BBtQD1r

 

In it it said that:

 

" Chinese construction on a South China Sea islet claimed by the Philippines would prompt "actions being taken" by the United States and other nations, US Defense Secretary Ashton Carter warned Saturday."

 

I wonder what kinda of "vow-actions" the US Defense Secretary Ashton Carter has in mind? It is a shame that a reasonable solution for all is not being sought. Instead it seems like they all of more interested in playing variations of "chicken and/or let's see who can puff up their bullying chest the most." They are dangerous games. I wish they would try seeking a more peaceful and reasonable and fair solution. Dan

[Greg.D.]

I think reasonable solutions would be rule of law, the permanent court of arbitration in The Hague, and adhering to The United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS). The US is one of the few non-parties to that convention, though China and all of Asia is.

 

I don't want war either, but what is the rest of the world to do when China wants separate or special rules for itself? In order to bring China into the rest of the world over the last 25 years or so, a lot has been forgiven or excused .... but for how much longer?

 

From The Guardian:

"We want to encourage China to be part of that rules-based world. We want to encourage everyone to abide by these adjudications. Im sure that will be something that will be discussed.

 

Camerons comments are expected to anger Beijing, which has refused to cooperate with the legal move and has accused the Philippines of using the court to undermine Chinese sovereignty in the region. China denounced the case as a blatant grab for territory and warned that it would not accept and would not engage in the move. The court does not have the authority to enforce its decision, and its rulings have been ignored before.:

Edited June 5, 2016 by Greg.D. (see edit history)

[Randy W]

Building of an International coalition? It's unclear when (other than "soon") a ruling is expected.

 

U.S. ‘hypocrisy’ and Chinese cash strengthen Beijing’s hand in South China Sea

 

The latest was Kenya. Before that: Lesotho, Vanuatu and Afghanistan.

 

The list of countries backing Beijing’s stance in the South China Sea just keeps growing — China’s Foreign Ministry boasted last week that nearly 60 had swung behind the country’s rejection of international arbitration in a case brought by the Philippines.

 

The numbers are questionable, and the idea of gaining the support of distant, landlocked Niger in a dispute about the South China Sea could seem faintly ludicrous.

Yet China’s frantic efforts to rally support ahead of a ruling from an international tribunal in The Hague may not be as meaningless as they might seem. Cold, hard Chinese cash and what many see as American double standards are undermining efforts to build a unified global response to Beijing’s land reclamation activities in the disputed waters and employ international law to help resolve the issue.

 

. . .

 

The 60-country claim is complete nonsense,” said Gregory Poling, head of the Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative at CSIS. “The vast majority have made very vague comments — in support of peaceful resolution or that negotiations are the best way to deal with conflict — and China takes that and says, ‘See, they side with us in the arbitration.’ ”

 

Nevertheless, China’s ability to get poorer countries on its side could be important if the issue ever comes up at the United Nations.

“China can also portray this as the West against the Third World, of the developed world bullying the developing world,” Xie said. “The narrative matters.”

 

 

 

In the Global Times

 

Denouncing UNCLOS remains option for China after tribunal ruling

By Stefan Talmon Source:Global Times Published: 2016-3-3 17:40:18

[Randy W]

A little propaganda from CCTV and the Global Times

 

Facebook link - https://www.facebook.com/globaltimesnews/videos/1115015908579308/

Quote

When did China begin exercising its jurisdiction in the South China Sea? And why is the South China Sea issue so hotly debated? Watch the video to discover the history and find out the answers.(Via CCTV news)

 

Edited June 6, 2021 by Randy W (see edit history)

[Randy W]

Multimedia special: 70 years of construction, conflict and combat on the South China Sea

Ahead of the Hague ruling on July 12, the SCMP explores what’s at stake in the disputed zone ... and who controls what

 

 

Conflict in the disputed zone is often depicted as a contest for resources, but amultimedia package prepared by the South China Morning Post shows the situation is more complex, with nationalism and militarism also playing roles.

The package details the different names used by the six claimants for the maritime features – islands, reefs and shoals – in the South China Sea and their current status, as well as detailing the scale of Beijing’s massive construction projects in the disputed waters and the sometimes bloody history of those disputes.

. . .

The court announced on Wednesday that it will hand down its rulings on July 12.