China on the South China Seas

[warpedbored]

I'm as much of an anti war over the hill hippy as there is but I also think China is continuing to be the neighborhood bully. If you look at the line China has drawn along the coasts of other countries in the South China Sea it's ridiculous. It would be like the US drawing a line 12 miles off the coast of Mexico, Central America and South America and claiming all the water outside that line as theirs. Who's going to stand up to China in the region and say enough is enough?

[Greg.D.]

It looks and feels like they continue to be the bully because they generally are (by modern standards) and that is basically how they do things. On the other hand, had they made any kind of offer to buy, lease, or negotiate a crag, island or port from any of their neighbors, it would forever concede that they don't believe they own all of it. So this way, ironically, was their best choice.

 

So, offer a trillion: then it appears they don't believe they already own it.

 

Build an island close to their coast (instead of go large) it appears they don't believe they own the whole sea.

 

It's possible the U.S. and China planned the whole sail-by from the other day just so they could each do their posturing. I think the U.S. really cares more about surface and underwater transit in that area.

 

Plus, if the constant wave motion doesn't erode those islands the next tsunami might re-arrange them. We have chided them to be more involved militarily in world events so we aren't really faulting them for projecting power and influence.

[tsap seui]

It looks like Russia had to do some posturing also. I heard yesterday they sent two war planes a little too close to our ships in the Sea of Japan, made the Navy scramble two war planes in response. Round and round we go, up and down we go....I wonder who the Russians borrow their money from?

 

You know, they try and say how important that area is for shipping, as it is claimed that it is the busiest area for shipping in the world. I reckon my feeble question is....so who do "they" think the Chinese will stop the shipping for? They gonna cut of their wallet by stopping manufacturing and exporting stuff for the world, stop importing goods to make all of that stuff for us and the rest of the world?

 

It's all about methane gas. Let the Chinese drill it, refine it, and maybe they'll sell some of it to our "allies" in that area. That way we can keep our supply for ourselves. What a novel idea....do something for ourselves?

 

Sniff, sniff...I'm so selfish sometimes...I really wish America could work to be friends with China. Lord knows, if a certain person is elected next year, me n' the rabbit want to go live in China in our home there. I don't want to have to move to some dern island down in the Mediterranean Ocean. And the Canadians shore don't want any American's moving up yonder with them. I think they'd move the whole country to another place if they could....taking Viagara Falls with them too.

Edited October 30, 2015 by tsap seui (see edit history)

[Greg.D.]

Hague court deals a blow to China on South China Sea claims

A decision by a court in The Hague to take immediate jurisdiction over seven out of 15 submissions by the Philippines against China regarding territorial disputes may encourage others to challenge Beijing's South China Sea claims.

...

The Permanent Court of Arbitration ruled on Thursday that it had jurisdiction over 15 submissions by Manila, including one that calls into question the validity of China's claims based on the nine-dash line under international maritime law as defined by the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), which China has ratified.

...

In rejecting the arbitration, Beijing said it would disregard any findings by the tribunal and that it had no jurisdiction over territorial sovereignty disputes.

...

The foreign ministry yesterday said China had made a declaration on optional exceptions under Article 298 of UNCLOS in 2006, which meant no country could unilaterally invoke compulsory procedures on territorial disputes without the consent of China.

 

However, refusing to appear in court would damage China's image and make it appear China was defying international rules and bullying smaller nations, said Zhang Mingliang, a researcher at Jinan University.

...

"China should take into consideration some interests and concerns of the Philippines, and let them see some hope through bilateral channels. This would help China establish itself as a friendly and responsible country, and would be a more pragmatic solution," he said.

 

A no-show by China could not affect further proceedings by the tribunal, according to UNCLOS. A binding ruling would probably be handed down in the first half of 2016, Storey said.

...

Beijing-based naval expert Li Jie said Wu and Richardson's video call indicated both sides were keen to stick to their crisis-control mechanism.

A US official said the naval chiefs had agreed to maintain dialogue and follow protocols.

 

Scheduled port visits by US and Chinese ships and planned visits to China by senior US Navy officers remained on track.

 

"None of that is in jeopardy. Nothing has been cancelled," said the official.

 

 

[Thomas Promise]

The US is sending 50 special troop advisers into Syria now. Soon more then likely it will 50,000 US troops there. Possible confrontation with Russia and Russia could seek an alliance with China. Not good. Plus the 1,000s of 5th columnists have been allowed to invade the US disguised as refugees. Lock and load ladies and gentleman.

[Randy W]

Reuters: 'Hope to see you again': China warship to U.S. destroyer after South China Sea patrol

 

"WHAT ARE YOU GUYS DOING THIS SATURDAY?"

 

The Chinese destroyer shadowed the Lassen for 10 days before and after its Oct. 27 patrol near the artificial islands, said Francis. The Lassen got to within six to seven nautical miles from the nearest Chinese land formation, he added.

 

But not all U.S.-Chinese naval interactions are tense, especially when things are slow on the high seas.

 

"A few weeks ago we were talking to one of the ships that was accompanying us, a Chinese vessel ... (We) picked up the phone and just talked to him like, 'Hey, what are you guys doing this Saturday? Oh, we got pizza and wings. What are you guys eating? Oh, we're doing this. Hey, we're planning for Halloween as well'." The intent, Francis said, is "to show them ... that we're normal sailors, just like them, have families, just like them."

 

The Chinese sailors, speaking in English, responded by talking about where they were from, their families and places they have visited, Francis said.

 

Eventually, the Chinese destroyer that had followed the Lassen on its mission past the artificial islands peeled away.

 

"They were very cordial the entire time ... even before and after the Spratly islands transit," Francis said.

 

"When they left us they said, 'Hey, we're not going to be with you anymore. Wish you a pleasant voyage. Hope to see you again'."

[Randy W]

Reuters:

 

U.S. bombers flew near China-built island in South China Sea: Pentagon

 

Two U.S. B52 strategic bombers flew near artificial Chinese-built islands in the South China Sea this week and were contacted by Chinese ground controllers but continued their mission undeterred, the Pentagon said on Thursday.

 

The latest U.S. patrol in the disputed South China Sea occurred in advance of President Barack Obama's visit to the region next week to attend Asia-Pacific summits where he is expected the reassert Washington's commitment to freedom of navigation and overflight in the area.

 

. . .

 

Chinese ground controllers contacted the bombers but the aircraft continued their mission unabated, Urban said.

 

"We conduct B-52 flights in international air space in that part of the world all the time," Pentagon spokesman Peter Cook told a news briefing earlier on Thursday.

 

[Thomas Promise]

Over 70% of the world's trade moves on water. They who can dominate the waterways can dominate other nation's economies. This was one of the secrets of the British Empire's dominance of trade for nearly 200 years. The US copied it and expanded it. The US has no intention of giving this up.

 

 

Edited November 22, 2015 by Thomas Promise (see edit history)

[Dennis143]

Over 70% of the world's trade moves on water. They who can dominate the waterways can dominate other nation's economies. This was one of the secrets of the British Empire's dominance of trade for nearly 200 years. The US copied it and expanded it. The US has no intention of giving this up.

 

 

Interesting stats. I served aboard the 80,000 tonne aircraft carrier the USS Ranger CVA61 1967-69. The Ranger had a crew of 5000 the Gerald Ford has 4500 which is what the modern, all-volunteer Navy strives for; a smaller crew to maintain operational and combat readiness. Gerald Ford has a speed of "over 30 knots" which is laughable, as over 30 knots was easily achievable by the steam driven Ranger. Speeds are classified, so they're not gonna tell us anyway; however, the Ranger's top speed was ~35 knots and I would venture to guess the Ford is over 40.

 

Some say these are giant targets. It certainly would seem that way, yet no ones even tried to sink one (as far as we know) since WWII. The Ranger was a Forestal class carrier that was replaced by the Nimitz class that is now being replaced by the Ford class carrier. Don't know what escort compliments Ford class carriers. We had a normal escort of 3 distroyers, a cruiser and probably one or two subs. Those ships were the protectors of the carrier. When a US carrier "steams" into any port anywhere in the world it's an awesome display of power.

 

I remember standing on the flight deck looking out over the ocean at Task Force 71:

 

1968-1969 WestPac Tour of Duty TASK FORCE 71 On 14 April 1969 North Korean aircraft shot down an unarmed EC-121 propeller-driven Constellation which was on a routine reconnaissance patrol over the Sea of Japan from its base at Atsugi, Japan. The entire 31-man crew was killed. U.S. response was to activate Task Force 71 to protect such flights over those international waters in the future. Initially, the Task Force consisted of the carrier's USS Enterprise, USS Ticonderoga, USS Ranger and USS Hornet with a screen of three cruisers and twenty-two destroyers, five submarines, two hundred planes, and the USS New Jersey, the worlds only operative battleship. Task Force 71 became America's strongest show of military might; since the Korean War and largest Task Force since World War II. President Nixon gave sailing orders to Task Force 71, a forty ship armada assigned the task of protecting future reconnaissance flight near North Korea. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSC-12

 

 

Now we were used to seeing our escorts, but this was different... much different. Here were 4 aircraft carriers steaming in a line with close to 40 other ships scattered for far as the eye could see. I noticed that the normally empty cruiser's missile pads were now armed with missiles ready to lauch... and then there was the battleship New Jersey... OMG there wasn't a country on this planet that could match this show of strength. The sight made the hair on the back of this 18 year old kid's neck stand up.

Edited November 22, 2015 by Dennis143 (see edit history)

[Randy W]

Something's missing here - there's no Global Times article that I've found, nor are there any links to it, broken or otherwise.

 

But ABC AU reported it (and quoted from it)!

 

'It would be shame if a plane fell from the sky': China's warning to RAAF over South China Sea flights

 

"Everyone has always been careful, but it would be a shame if one day a plane fell from the sky and it happened to be Australian."

 

A Chinese state-owned newspaper has issued a strongly worded warning to Australia about a Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) surveillance plane carrying out "freedom of navigation" exercises over the South China Sea.

 

The editorial in the Chinese language edition of The Global Times appears to warn Australia its planes could be shot down if such operations continue.

On Tuesday, the BBC broadcast audio of an Australian pilot alerting the Chinese Navy of its flight over the disputed Spratly Islands.

 

"China Navy, China Navy," the voice said.

 

"We are an Australian aircraft exercising international freedom of navigation rights, in international airspace in accordance with the international civil aviation convention, and the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea."

 

The BBC said it recorded the message from a RAAF AP-3C Orion surveillance aircraft in the early afternoon on November 25.

 

[Randy W]

from the People's Daily Facebook page and CCTV

 

Aerial view of southern China's Sansha city in South China Sea

 

 

https://www.facebook.com/188625661189259/videos/1067803359938147

Edited June 6, 2021 by Randy W (see edit history)

[Randy W]

in the Global Times

 

PLA reform highlights strong navy

By Kou Jie Source:Global Times Published: 2016-1-4 0:38:01

PLA to be more capable of defending sovereignty

 

China has shown great restraint in the South China Sea dispute, but in the face of provocation, the country is becoming more capable of defending its territorial integrity, analysts said as China announced major military reform plans that highlighted a strong navy.

The comments also came on the heels of a foreign ministry response to Vietnam's protest against China's test flight to a newly built airport on Yongshu Jiao of the Nansha Islands on Saturday.

 

. . .

 

China has always maintained that its construction on the islets in the South China Sea is for civil use.

Chinese President Xi Jinping clarified that relevant construction activities China is undertaking on the Nansha Islands do not target or impact any other country during his state visit to the US in October, the Xinhua News Agency reported.

Moreover, China does not intend to pursue militarization of the Nansha Islands in the South China Sea. All its military deployment is necessary, limited and defense-oriented, the report said.

The military reform will help China create a strong navy in keeping with its international status, Chen said.

According to Chen, the territorial disputes are merely a small part of China's maritime strategy. A strong navy will not only protect a country's territory, but also its maritime interests and international reputation.

 

[Randy W]

PLA garrison ‘warns off’ US Navy destroyer sailing close to island in disputed area of South China Sea

 

China’s defence ministry said on Saturday that a PLA garrison on an island in a disputed area of the South China Sea had taken action to warn off and repel a US Navy destroyer that had entered its territorial waters.

 

. . .

 

 

(Pentagon spokesman) Davis said no ships from China’s military were in the area when the US warship carried out its patrol in the Paracel islands on Saturday.

However, Yang said the PLA garrison on the island had given warnings and taken action to expel the US warship. He did not give details of what kind of action was taken.

. . .

Ni Lexiong, a Shanghai-based naval expert, said the US action was a show of force.

“The US wants to show other Asian countries that it has the power to challenge Chinese claims in the Paracel Islands,” he said.

 

[warpedbored]

I saw this on Google news today.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2016/01/30/u-s-missile-destroyer-sailed-close-to-island-claimed-by-china/

[Randy W]

from Fox News

 

Exclusive: China sends surface-to-air missiles to contested island in provocative move

 

It is the same island chain where a U.S. Navy destroyer sailed close to another contested island a few weeks ago. China at the time vowed “consequences” for the action.

Woody Island is also claimed by the Republic of China (Taiwan) and by Vietnam.

The missiles arrived over the past week. According to the images, a beach on the island was empty on Feb. 3, but the missiles were visible by Feb. 14.

. . .

The HQ-9 has a range of 125 miles, which would pose a threat to any airplanes, civilians or military, flying close by.