China on the South China Seas

[Allon]

I like the remark about Deng giving Vietnam a bloody nose in 1979. It was more the opposite. If Vietnam had had a more robust air resource, they would have kicked China's ass.

 

An important part of determining readiness is whether the troops have been "bloodied" as Stalin would say. Vietnam's troops were bloodied pretty well after our war with them. And China has been dealing mostly with internal policing and border protection.

 

So there is a lot of bluster but they had better have some socks with those shoes.

[Randy W]

 

 

the Global Times bad-mouths Australia over its position on the ruling

 

"Bad mouths"? That's just short of a declaration of war. And, given that it's in English, it's not for internal consumption.

 

How do they back down from that?

 

 

 

It's simply a Global Times editorial. One thing you'll find about Foreign Policy and Military matters is that they speak with a WIDE range of official voices, and not at all coordinated. It's probably their weakest area of coordination. That is, it probably IS from a point of view intended for internal consumption, but without supervision from the Military or Foreign Affairs ministries allowed to leak out in this way.

 

 

 

This is an interesting article about how the Global Times fits in with the other state-run newspapers - from China Digital Times

 

How Seriously Should You Take Global Times?

 

[…] Another reporter from one of the three major state-owned media outlets says editorials from The People’s Daily and Xinhua more or less represent the Chinese government’s official position. In contrast, while Global Times is in line with more hawkish elements within the party, its boisterous editorials don’t necessarily represent Beijing’s official line.

It is understood that the Chinese Foreign Ministry representatives made a similar point to their Korean counterparts in Seoul after the Global Times launched a series of tirade against South Koreans.

[…] We should object to insulting editorials from the Global Times. But we should also be aware that any discussion of editorial positions which, in the end, lack real substance and are not the voice of government, also plays into the hands of the newspaper which prides itself on its ability to rile foreigners. [Source]

. . .

 

Read more on Global Times’ role in Beijing’s broader media strategy, and an argument that its reputation for hardline nationalism is not entirely deserved, via CDT.

 

[Greg.D.]

I appreciate that you supplied this post for reference.

 

I still worry about China's increasingly alarming "outside the bounds" behavior in her interactions with the rest of the world.

[Randy W]

Yes - they are definitely getting more persistent with their "message". It's definitely affecting relations with Taiwan and Hong Kong, in addition to the rest of the world

[Randy W]

in the American Military News . . .

 

U.S. Reminds China Who’s In Charge With Historic Flight: Flies One of Each 3 Nuclear Bombers Over The South China Sea

 

 

Quote

The B-52 Stratofortress, B-1B Lancer, and the B-2 Spirit all participated in integrated bomber operation training. The display of American military superiority was meant to enforce U.S. Strategic Command’s (STRATCOM) goal of constantly stationing nuclear-capable aircraft in the region to prevent aggression in the Indo-Asia-Pacific region.

 

. . .

 

The Chinese government has not issued an official statement on the flight or training mission the planes engaged in.

 

Edited June 3, 2021 by Randy W (see edit history)

[Allon]

The interesting thing about this photograph is that they are all three together in a flight formation that would never happen in war.

 

I like whenever there is a "show of force" picture. They exclude the fact that there is a CAP flight of fighters to protect them, usually above or below the flight of any one cell of three when that cell is flying alone. A CAP protects the bombers from fighters.

 

On radar, I am sure it is an impressive sight.

[Greg.D.]

And, and ... all countries are capable of exploiting the power of a provocative photo for internal consumption. Meaning us.

 

I still say the worst and most likely outcome of a Chinese military interaction with another country that has a modern military would be the political fallout internally and possible social upheaval that might result.

 

If there was pushback against the party (after a humiliation), how could the party respond? Would it want to?

[Allon]

The question becomes moot if no one China knows about any incident. Right now, the Chinese people have a knee jerk reaction about the West because for a long long time China was not really China. Manchuria was Russian and then Japanese. The French and British in the south. American boats cruised the Yangtze River. And the propaganda Mao put in place is still evident in the teaching methods and curriculum. To this day, few students know about or recognize what happened June 4, 1989. We call it Tiananmen Square where upwards of 3,000 people were killed. (More in other cities.) The CCP calls it the June 4 Incident and 33 ruffians were taken care of when they attacked soldiers of the PLA.

 

What the people would do in the event of an incident that could not be hidden depends on how it is sold to the people. But also, just like America, when there is a troubling national crisis, the people fall in line generally supporting the president. I think the Chinese people will, for the most part, do the same.

 

But our approach should not matter. We have to establish full access to the high seas on the South China sea and frankly I am glad we are sending higher and faster weaponry to protect the skies there too. This show of force was to establish that the B-52's at Anderson are being replaced by B-1's and B-2's. That is a clear escalation in addition to the 3 carrier task groups we have placed there and the re-deployment of 5 bases in the Philippines.

 

But this whole mess is looking very similar to what happened in the Pacific and the Japanese. I am waiting for a Tojo to come to power. If that happens, saddle up and find a survival redoubt in Utah. I hope clear heads prevail in China -- and North Korea. The latter is looking like something out of our control already.

Edited August 22, 2016 by Allon (see edit history)

[Randy W]

A good article on the corner that China is in on both the South China Seas and Hong Kong in the SCMP

 

The lesson Hong Kong must learn from the South China Sea

If rocks, atolls and reefs are a “core interest” to the Communist Party, the city must be far more important – which is why it should be wary of provoking Beijing

 

 

In Southeast Asia sovereignties are still tender; historical enmities often still raw. If consensus is repeatedly abused, the consequences will be unpredictable. This is in no one’s interest. Do Asean and China realise this? I think so, at least minimally and, in China’s case, grudgingly.

 

. . .

 

In Vientiane, Wang was more conciliatory than in Kunming, where China overplayed its hand: all 10 Asean members resisted Beijing’s attempt to ram its own version of a South China Sea ‘consensus’ down Asean’s throat. China knows that of late its diplomacy on the South China Sea has been less than a dazzling success and has at least made tactical adjustments.

 

. . .

 

The Commander of the PLA Navy, Admiral Wu Shengli (吳勝利), recently told an American admiral that the South China Sea was a “core interest” for China on which the Communist Party’s governance depended.

If rocks, atolls and reefs in the South China Sea are a “core interest”, Hong Kong must be far more important to the party. For a hundred years, the legitimacy of every Chinese government has depended on its ability to protect China’s sovereignty. The party cannot compromise over Hong Kong.

China speaks threateningly, but knows that stopping the US Navy’s Seventh Fleet from operating in the South China Sea would be a casus belli. War with the United States can have only one outcome. Defeat would jeopardise party rule. Neither the US nor China will stop asserting their interests in the South China Sea. But they also deter each other from going too far. China does not want Asean to swing entirely to America, and so reluctantly accepts its minimal consensus.

 

[Randy W]

in the SCMP. Zhanjiang is on the coast, near Beihai



China and Russia to hold joint South China Sea naval drills as pressure rises from US

Eight days of exercises planned off Zhanjiang two months after international tribunal in The Hague dismissed China’s historical claims to most of the waters

Personnel from the Chinese and Russian navies will conduct defence, rescue, anti-submarine drills as well as exercises to take control of islands, Liang said.
The marine corps will also take part in live-fire drills, sea crossing and island landing operations, he said.
. . .
Retired PLA colonel Yue Gang said Beijing and Moscow had each confronted rising challenges from Washington – from the stand-off with China in the South China Sea to the sanctions imposed by the West over Russia after Moscow’s annexation of Crimea in 2014.
Yue said there was also the possibility of a US-Japan-South Korea military alliance after Seoul agreed to deploy a US advanced anti-missile system on the Korean peninsula. “[China and Russia] understand that they need to cooperate, not just in diplomacy and politics but also in the military as a way to respond to the challenge from the West,” he said. “This is most effective way at this point.”

[Allon]

Yes, it is September, 1941 all over again.

[tsap seui]

Jake, I kin see now, Unca Sam is gonna have to ask the Chinartuckians for a loan to buy bombs and fuel for the planes, and aircraft carriers, and jest start WWIII so we kin git rid of ALL them commie sumbitches oncet and for all !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I gotta wonder though....when China buys our phony baloney T bills, etc. or loans us money, do we have to give them a business plan on what we propose to do with the money, like my wife and I had to give our bank, last week, when we took out a loan to make some investments? I can only imagine the laundry list of what we'd need and plan to do with THEIR money should they give us a loan.

 

A) Two Billion Gallons of aircraft carrier fuel so we can roam the South China Sea freely to intercept any Chinese or Russian shipping at will

B) Aviation fuel and smart bombs for attack fighters

C) One trillion USD for PTSD treatment for any surviving US troops and civilians of nuclear holocost

...and the list goes on

[Randy W]

 

 

 

 

It's simply a Global Times editorial. One thing you'll find about Foreign Policy and Military matters is that they speak with a WIDE range of official voices, and not at all coordinated. It's probably their weakest area of coordination. That is, it probably IS from a point of view intended for internal consumption, but without supervision from the Military or Foreign Affairs ministries allowed to leak out in this way.

 

 

 

This is an interesting article about how the Global Times fits in with the other state-run newspapers - from China Digital Times

 

How Seriously Should You Take Global Times?

 

 

[…] Another reporter from one of the three major state-owned media outlets says editorials from The People’s Daily and Xinhua more or less represent the Chinese government’s official position. In contrast, while Global Times is in line with more hawkish elements within the party, its boisterous editorials don’t necessarily represent Beijing’s official line.

It is understood that the Chinese Foreign Ministry representatives made a similar point to their Korean counterparts in Seoul after the Global Times launched a series of tirade against South Koreans.

[…] We should object to insulting editorials from the Global Times. But we should also be aware that any discussion of editorial positions which, in the end, lack real substance and are not the voice of government, also plays into the hands of the newspaper which prides itself on its ability to rile foreigners. [Source]

. . .

 

Read more on Global Times’ role in Beijing’s broader media strategy, and an argument that its reputation for hardline nationalism is not entirely deserved, via CDT.

 

 

 

More on the role of the Global Times - this article centers around a recent row wit Singapore

 

HOW CHINA IS USING ITS GLOBAL TIMES ATTACK DOG TO INTIMIDATE SINGAPORE

 

Global Times may be the bad and hawkish cop, but its messages are a transmission from within the heart of CCP power, writes Peh Shing Huei.

 

. . .

 

The belligerent tone of the paper appeals to a growing home base of young nationalists, which are referred to as xiao fen hong or little pinks.

 

. . .

 

The Global Times is noticed around the world. While the paper is often lampooned overseas, foreign media pay close attention to its stories.

For the CCP, it is no use blasting other countries unless the recipient gets the message.

In that way, Global Times can be, in a sense, fair. It directs its vitriol at almost every country and territory. The top three are usually the United States, Japan and the pro-independence camp of Taiwan.

 

[Allon]

Well, something is up.

 

Over the weekend, a B-2 bomber dropped 2 B61 nuke dummies in the Nevada desert. They are testing bunker busting bombs.

 

The B-52 revamping project seems to be accelerating. An additional 52 was just reconstructed out of Davis Monthan's boneyard and assigned to Minot's Strat Wing. More to come.

 

I think we are preparing for another Cold War. I would not be surprised if we went to Chrome Dome again.

 

Russia has really stepped up its harassment of Estonia, Latvia, Finland, and Sweden. Su-27 fighters crossed their border right after they signed a closer NATO agreement.

 

In 2014, Krygyzstan kicked our Manas airbase out after a visit by the Russian foreign minister. It was the main staging area for Afghanistan. Manas is now the civilian airport for its capital, Bishkek. Russia was wary of a base being so close to the Russian border. So we moved everything to Constanta in Romania, which made it even closer to the Russian border; the Crimean is right across the bay in the Baltic Sea. And Romania is a very close NATO partner.

 

We are moving to the Cold War and possibly farther with China. We need a LeMay.

 

I am also wondering how long Duterte in the Philippines is going to last. I smell a coup. He is threatening the alliance against China's claim to the South China sea and the contented islands there.

 

Back to the old days.

[amberjack1234]

Well, something is up.

 

Over the weekend, a B-2 bomber dropped 2 B61 nuke dummies in the Nevada desert. They are testing bunker busting bombs.

 

The B-52 revamping project seems to be accelerating. An additional 52 was just reconstructed out of Davis Monthan's boneyard and assigned to Minot's Strat Wing. More to come.

 

I think we are preparing for another Cold War. I would not be surprised if we went to Chrome Dome again.

 

Russia has really stepped up its harassment of Estonia, Latvia, Finland, and Sweden. Su-27 fighters crossed their border right after they signed a closer NATO agreement.

 

In 2014, Krygyzstan kicked our Manas airbase out after a visit by the Russian foreign minister. It was the main staging area for Afghanistan. Manas is now the civilian airport for its capital, Bishkek. Russia was wary of a base being so close to the Russian border. So we moved everything to Constanta in Romania, which made it even closer to the Russian border; the Crimean is right across the bay in the Baltic Sea. And Romania is a very close NATO partner.

 

We are moving to the Cold War and possibly farther with China. We need a LeMay.

 

I am also wondering how long Duterte in the Philippines is going to last. I smell a coup. He is threatening the alliance against China's claim to the South China sea and the contented islands there.

 

Back to the old days.

Been telling the wife that for a long time now. No increase in activity here at Camp Lejeune lately though. Ole Winston may be looking for a new job back in South Africa sooner then he thinks.