Yes or No, okay?

[tsap seui]

Do some Chinese women really answer questions like that....seriously? Shirley you jest?

 

If so, it looks like a George Burns and Gracie Allen skit.

 

I dunno, life is pretty short, that would be funny once or twice but If the woman I met in Beijing answered all my questions like that, and that was how I could see that I had to live my life with her....she'd have woken up in the hotel room all by herowndamnself. Bubba would have made an exit.....stage left.

Come to think of it, if I answered her questions like that, she'd have left me all by my lonesome Dove, too. I'd probably have woken up with a knot on my hed the size of the one in my bvd's and a fryin' pan layin' beside me in the bed wunderin'....did anybody git that 18 wheeler's tag number.

 

tsap seui

Edited February 24, 2013 by tsap seui (see edit history)

[david_dawei]

 

Well told story David that illustrates the many steps needed to get information. But, you know, I am wondering why you didn't ask your wife why her friend is dating a small penis?

 

 

 

2. PHONE CALLS:

Me: Who called?

Wife: A friend

Me: Does your friend have a name

Wife: Yes

...

{pause}

...

Me: What is her name

Wife: Xiao Mei Mei

...

...

{longer pause... taking a few breaths as I know this drill}

...

...

Me: Which Xiao Mei Mei. You have about 300 of them.

Wife: The one who is dating Xiao Di Di

{No Pause... I'm trying to pick up the pace}

Me: Which Xiao Di Di

Wife: The one who is dating Xiao Mei Mei

 

Yes... the irony in language euphemisms is interesting.

[david_dawei]

Do some Chinese women really answer questions like that....seriously? Shirley you jest?

 

If so, it looks like a George Burns and Gracie Allen skit.

 

I dunno, life is pretty short, that would be funny once or twice but If the woman I met in Beijing answered all my questions like that, and that was how I could see that I had to live my life with her....she'd have woken up in the hotel room all by herowndamnself. Bubba would have made an exit.....stage left.

Come to think of it, if I answered her questions like that, she'd have left me all by my lonesome Dove, too. I'd probably have woken up with a knot on my hed the size of the one in my bvd's and a fryin' pan layin' beside me in the bed wunderin'....did anybody git that 18 wheeler's tag number.

 

tsap seui

 

There is certainly entertainment value in some of my posts... and that is intended... but a person is not the sum of what they communicate. One has to get much deeper to know the person. So I don't judge books by their cover as many actually look very appealing but the read is not worth it.

 

The simple fact is... that is exactly how they will talk in their own culture and in most cases others understand who is meant... Context is everything. So the inability to communicate (on the receiving end) is with the American. And the feeling that we need to change their communication is sometimes a reflection of our inability to change ourselves.

 

I do wonder how much pressure the USC puts on the chinese to change when the change needs to be with ourselves...

[Guest ExChinaExpat]

 

Do some Chinese women really answer questions like that....seriously? Shirley you jest?

 

If so, it looks like a George Burns and Gracie Allen skit.

 

I dunno, life is pretty short, that would be funny once or twice but If the woman I met in Beijing answered all my questions like that, and that was how I could see that I had to live my life with her....she'd have woken up in the hotel room all by herowndamnself. Bubba would have made an exit.....stage left.

Come to think of it, if I answered her questions like that, she'd have left me all by my lonesome Dove, too. I'd probably have woken up with a knot on my hed the size of the one in my bvd's and a fryin' pan layin' beside me in the bed wunderin'....did anybody git that 18 wheeler's tag number.

 

tsap seui

 

There is certainly entertainment value in some of my posts... and that is intended... but a person is not the sum of what they communicate. One has to get much deeper to know the person. So I don't judge books by their cover as many actually look very appealing but the read is not worth it.

 

The simple fact is... that is exactly how they will talk in their own culture and in most cases others understand who is meant... Context is everything. So the inability to communicate (on the receiving end) is with the American. And the feeling that we need to change their communication is sometimes a reflection of our inability to change ourselves.

 

I do wonder how much pressure the USC puts on the chinese to change when the change needs to be with ourselves...

 

I agree that Chinese communicate in this manner with each other, but stop a little short of your suggestion that the full change needs to be within ourselves. I repeatedly experienced this behavior when I tried to clarify information I received from my Chinese colleagues in an email. I always knew I would have to walk to their desk or arrange a meeting to get to the bottom of what they were trying to communicate.

 

Communication and dialog is a two-way street. Is it reasonable to expect that all we will ever know from Chinese communication is what we learn from the first or second trip to the well? Americans, by culture are verbal. Chinese by culture have mysterious things going on that the people of China don't verbalize, but expect others to understand the details by osmosis. Further, if you're not a good sponge, you will be perceived as being stupid because it takes you so long to understand what they mean.

 

Chinese can make complex things unnecessarily simple, and simple things unnecessarily complex. There is an expectation that if they are not able to answer your question, that you will not push them to admit it, and go ask someone else, or figure it out on your own. It's reasonable to speak about this with a girlfriend, spouse, or Chinese friend. It's also reasonable to tell them how annoying and difficult these cultural behaviors are to Western people. It's okay to ask them to get a clue and learn how to communicate with Western people and for us as Westerners to take a pause, breath, and step back while they learn a new way.

Edited February 24, 2013 by JiangsuExpat (see edit history)

[david_dawei]

 

 

Do some Chinese women really answer questions like that....seriously? Shirley you jest?

 

If so, it looks like a George Burns and Gracie Allen skit.

 

I dunno, life is pretty short, that would be funny once or twice but If the woman I met in Beijing answered all my questions like that, and that was how I could see that I had to live my life with her....she'd have woken up in the hotel room all by herowndamnself. Bubba would have made an exit.....stage left.

Come to think of it, if I answered her questions like that, she'd have left me all by my lonesome Dove, too. I'd probably have woken up with a knot on my hed the size of the one in my bvd's and a fryin' pan layin' beside me in the bed wunderin'....did anybody git that 18 wheeler's tag number.

 

tsap seui

 

There is certainly entertainment value in some of my posts... and that is intended... but a person is not the sum of what they communicate. One has to get much deeper to know the person. So I don't judge books by their cover as many actually look very appealing but the read is not worth it.

 

The simple fact is... that is exactly how they will talk in their own culture and in most cases others understand who is meant... Context is everything. So the inability to communicate (on the receiving end) is with the American. And the feeling that we need to change their communication is sometimes a reflection of our inability to change ourselves.

 

I do wonder how much pressure the USC puts on the chinese to change when the change needs to be with ourselves...

 

I agree that Chinese communicate in this manner with each other, but stop a little short of your suggestion that the full change needs to be within ourselves.

Yes, communication is difficult even in english. I didn't say "full change". I only mentioned that when we put pressure on another, how often is it the case that we ourselves might need to change... so out of 100 pressures we put forth, how many should the USC own up to.

 

It is an introspective and rhetorical question and no magic number exists... It is a contemplative inquiry.

 

And I don't disagree with the points you share... but ultimately one cannot force another to change. At some point one is left with accepting what they can or eventually bailing out with the understanding they should not of gotten involved... which is a hard lesson learned. But this is not meant to be so negative as life's journey has lessons at every turn.

[Guest ExChinaExpat]

 

Yes, communication is difficult even in english. I didn't say "full change". I only mentioned that when we put pressure on another, how often is it the case that we ourselves might need to change... so out of 100 pressures we put forth, how many should the USC own up to.

It is an introspective and rhetorical question and no magic number exists... It is a contemplative inquiry.

And I don't disagree with the points you share... but ultimately one cannot force another to change. At some point one is left with accepting what they can or eventually bailing out with the understanding they should not of gotten involved... which is a hard lesson learned. But this is not meant to be so negative as life's journey has lessons at every turn.

Yes. I agree with your points. If the USC expects any success at all, they damn-well better be willing to take the time to learn.

[Fu Lai]

... It's okay to ask them to get a clue and learn how to communicate with Western people and for us as Westerners to take a pause, breath, and step back while they learn a new way.

 

I agree as long as we acknowledge that we reciprocate in the same way... get a clue and learn how to communicate with Chinese people and for them as Chinese to take a pause, breath, and step back while we learn a new way.

[tsap seui]

 

 

Maybe the CHinese talk to each other in riddles and circles

 

 

Do some Chinese women really answer questions like that....seriously? Shirley you jest?

 

If so, it looks like a George Burns and Gracie Allen skit.

 

I dunno, life is pretty short, that would be funny once or twice but If the woman I met in Beijing answered all my questions like that, and that was how I could see that I had to live my life with her....she'd have woken up in the hotel room all by herowndamnself. Bubba would have made an exit.....stage left.

Come to think of it, if I answered her questions like that, she'd have left me all by my lonesome Dove, too. I'd probably have woken up with a knot on my hed the size of the one in my bvd's and a fryin' pan layin' beside me in the bed wunderin'....did anybody git that 18 wheeler's tag number.

 

tsap seui

There is certainly entertainment value in some of my posts... and that is intended... but a person is not the sum of what they communicate. One has to get much deeper to know the person. So I don't judge books by their cover as many actually look very appealing but the read is not worth it.

 

The simple fact is... that is exactly how they will talk in their own culture and in most cases others understand who is meant... Context is everything. So the inability to communicate (on the receiving end) is with the American. And the feeling that we need to change their communication is sometimes a reflection of our inability to change ourselves.

 

I do wonder how much pressure the USC puts on the chinese to change when the change needs to be with ourselves...

 

Mmmmm, maybe the Chinese talk to each otther in riddles and circles. I've just never had my wife talk to me like that. She is direct and to the point...and demands that in return. As an American person who had been communicating in english on a computer I never saw that I needed to look deep wihtin myself to take up the Chinese language, especially when I had talked on a computer less than 3 months before jumping on a plane and flew over to Beijing. There was no time for one such as me to take a language course, much less to start learning the nuances of Chinese who talk in circles.

 

That first trip to China was to see if the woman who met me there, and I, even got along with each other well enough to forge ahead. The whole premise was that this woman wanted to immigrate to America. That first trip was only 3 1/2 weeks and we needed to spend our time trying to get to know each other as well as possible. If this woman I met had spent most of the time talking as if in some Burns and Allen riddle, well, we weren't going to get to know each other very well. Yeah, it's China, it's her country...and....she wanted to immigrate to America, with me, if she liked me. Luckily for us, she didn't waste one minute talking in circles, or expecting me to understand Chinese riddles.

 

After the first meeting and 2 1/2 months later on the second visit I asked my girlfriend to teach me some Chinese. Her answer was a flat "NO, I don't have time to teach you Chinese...I need you to teach me English." Okay, no pressure from this American to push her into english, she wanted to understand english and to understand everything about America that I could cram in, in our short next 3 1/2 weeks.

 

When in China we never took any trips to look at stuff, we spent the entire time in hotel rooms or walks in parks talking about our lives....actually trying our best to get to know each other, and by her will it was all in english. No pressure from the American. The American trying to learn english was a waste of time in her book.

 

And it went that way on the 3rd and 4 trips 2 1/2 months apart. Get to know each other, study english....in so many ways, she was the teacher....she knew what she wanted, and for the first time in her life she was getting it. No time was wasted on riddles and talking in circles.

 

Maybe that is just how the Chinese talk with someone that has something they want something from, and someone they want something with. I dunno.

 

 

Nowadays, she studys to better her english and fit in more seemlessly with this culture, the American culture. I've yet to hear the words, "Tarbaby, why don't you look within yourself to change and understand Chinese and the Chinese language language and culture." No, lil' brer rabbit still wants to learn english. If she has a want or need she asks me in a directly worded question, or we discuss it in a direct fashion. We still talk and get to know each other, in english, and she still doesn't want to teach me Chinese. She still says she doesn't have time to teach me Chinese. Who knows, maybe in all the time it took us to fight the State Department to get her here she forgot how to talk in circles and riddles.

 

 

Now, don't get me wrong, I greatly enjoyed Burns and Allen. I highly doubt lil' rabbit would enjoy them though. She's a much more direct person. And, I'll let you in on a secret, she hates talking to a Chinese person who talks in circles. She says they are trying to hide something. I ain't too smart, but anybody who's wife talks to them like that, may jes wanna invest in some Chinese language and culture lessons. I've got my doubts that too many guys out there are having

that trouble, though.

 

I feel sorry for any Chinese woman who's American husband is putting pressure on them to change. From what I've seen and lived, that would pretty much mean the damn guy forced her to immigrate to America in the first place.

 

tsap seui

Edited February 25, 2013 by tsap seui (see edit history)

[david_dawei]

 

I feel sorry for any Chinese woman who's American husband is putting pressure on them to change. From what I've seen and lived, that would pretty much mean the damn guy forced her to immigrate to America in the first place.

 

For a guy who has no experience with the issue, you have a lot to say and judge about it. I am not sure your point but it is an unfortunate manifesto of looking down on others who have not your blissful experience.

[Guest ExChinaExpat]

 

 

I feel sorry for any Chinese woman who's American husband is putting pressure on them to change. From what I've seen and lived, that would pretty much mean the damn guy forced her to immigrate to America in the first place.

 

For a guy who has no experience with the issue, you have a lot to say and judge about it. I am not sure your point but it is an unfortunate manifesto of looking down on others who have not your blissful experience.

 

Can you force a woman to immigrate to the USA? Not likely. It's their choice, and they may be happy with it, or they may not. Truth be told, people from Beijing are considered a different breed by their fellow Chinese. They are a lot more Westernized, better educated, more English speakers, more money, and they know it, and live like they know it.

 

It's a rare find in China to meet a competent English speaker. Even more rare to find someone who is familiar with Western English idioms, metaphors, and slang. If you're lucky enough to know a Chinese person who has actually traveled to the US before you meet them, then they have already seen and experienced with their own eyes the differences.

 

David, I know you've made several trips to China and traveled the country a lot. Some of it we shared together. You also have studied the culture a lot. I respect your experience and opinions here.

[david_dawei]

 

Can you force a woman to immigrate to the USA? Not likely. It's their choice, and they may be happy with it, or they may not. Truth be told, people from Beijing are considered a different breed by their fellow Chinese. They are a lot more Westernized, better educated, more English speakers, more money, and they know it, and live like they know it.

It's a rare find in China to meet a competent English speaker. Even more rare to find someone who is familiar with Western English idioms, metaphors, and slang. If you're lucky enough to know a Chinese person who has actually traveled to the US before you meet them, then they have already seen and experienced with their own eyes the differences.

David, I know you've made several trips to China and traveled the country a lot. Some of it we shared together. You also have studied the culture a lot. I respect your experience and opinions here.

You raise some interesting points about knowing a language as that does not mean one knows the culture. I've known guys fluent in chinese but they don't get the cultural issues. So the same will be with a woman who may know english. But in either case, when one is flexible and open then they may be a pleasant surprise.

 

I've lost count of my trips after 13... Some with you. The great thing is that we don't agree on everything but we do respect each others experience and opinions. Your time/life/work in China is a very positive contribute to CFL.

 

[Guest ExChinaExpat]

They do it just to keep everything calm and no problems. Kind of like keeping the music playing while the Titanic was sinking.

 

 

Maybe the CHinese talk to each other in riddles and circles...

 

 

Maybe that is just how the Chinese talk with someone that has something they want something from, and someone they want something with. I dunno.

tsap seui

[Dennis143]

 

 

 

I feel sorry for any Chinese woman who's American husband is putting pressure on them to change. From what I've seen and lived, that would pretty much mean the damn guy forced her to immigrate to America in the first place.

 

For a guy who has no experience with the issue, you have a lot to say and judge about it. I am not sure your point but it is an unfortunate manifesto of looking down on others who have not your blissful experience.

 

Can you force a woman to immigrate to the USA? Not likely. It's their choice, and they may be happy with it, or they may not. Truth be told, people from Beijing are considered a different breed by their fellow Chinese. They are a lot more Westernized, better educated, more English speakers, more money, and they know it, and live like they know it.

 

It's a rare find in China to meet a competent English speaker. Even more rare to find someone who is familiar with Western English idioms, metaphors, and slang. If you're lucky enough to know a Chinese person who has actually traveled to the US before you meet them, then they have already seen and experienced with their own eyes the differences.

 

David, I know you've made several trips to China and traveled the country a lot. Some of it we shared together. You also have studied the culture a lot. I respect your experience and opinions here.

Interesting perspective re. Beijing women whom I have met many. Yes, they seem to be more cosmopolitan than many of their fellow countrywomen. One woman in particular worked as an English translator in Beijing. I have been helping her with her transition her in the US... primarily in learning English idioms and cultural differences.

 

So much what has been written here of the Chinese way of verbal interaction has been very enlightening. It helps me understand how, when she will often express her appreciation of my directness... telling me that when she asks a question she can expect and will receive a clear and direct answer. The difference, I tell her, is that we try not to be so honest in that it could be cruel or hurtful, yet we'll try to convey an indirect way that hits to the truth where the person can often answer their own question.

 

Looking back and now becoming aware of this Chinese cultural way of verbal evasion and with my typical and normal western way of directly answering a question, I chuckle now and understand why the somewhat shocked looked that I often see in my conversations.

 

Oh, and thanks!

Edited February 25, 2013 by Dennis143 (see edit history)

[tsap seui]

Just to straighten out the erroneous record. I don't "look down" on anyone. I have this saying I found that I try and live my life by..."Never look down upon anyone, unless you are reaching down to help them up".

 

Bliss?

I worked my butt off every single step of the way to get to bliss, twice.. So did my wife, right along beside me....well, a few miles away and separated by the State Department.

 

My Fushun woman didn't know one word of english when I met her. I am not going to lie about how she talked to me in the beginning, and now, without the circles and riddles that others state they have seen.

 

Jesse lives in China, when he says Chinese folks talk in circles and others agree with him and say they talk in roundabout ways I do not doubt any of them. Even though their experience is not the same as mine I hope it is still okay that a guy can express his different experience?

 

I swear, as a USC, I have never put any pressure on my wife to change one thing about herself. I can only imagine how a Chinese woman would respond to pressure of any sort from her husband, especially pressure that she had to change herself. I wouldn't want to be the stupid idiot on the recieving end of that wrath.

 

I highly respect all the folks on Candle, and I try and help with words of encouragement to the new folks, and when they go to their interviews. All I seek is to be allowed to freely express the truth of my own personal experience....even if it differs with the experience of others. That does not in any way imply that I look down on others.

 

tsap seui

[Fu Lai]

I would suggest that Chinese women that are going to the USA might be more interested in learning English then teaching you Chinese or about China. Maybe they don't want to think another minute about China and have reasons to put it in their rear view mirror? Or maybe they just CAN'T teach you and want to prevent losing face? It is peculiar that someone coming from such a deep culture as China would avoid it so much.

 

My girl has no interest in EVER going to the USA except to meet my family, we deal with only Chinese people every day [besides me and my work]. So she always teaches me things about China and encourages me to learn more Chinese language. It is ESSENTIAL that we meet each others needs in changing our way of interacting so that we can function optimally. The changing we do for each other benefits every aspect of our relationship. There is no forced change in anything but us wanting to fit better together.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Fu Lai (see edit history)