Social Security Benefits

[Randy W]

The way I read that is that as long as your spouse lived in the U.S. for a 5 year, non-continuous period, she would be eligible to continue your benefits after your death and after the (her) age of 60.

[Randy W]

.

Compilation of the Social Security Laws

http://www.ssa.gov/O...itle02/0202.htm

(1)Notwithstanding any other provision of this title, no monthly benefits shall be paid under this section or under section 223 to any individual who is not a citizen or national of the United States for any month which is . . .

 

(4) Subject to paragraph (11), paragraph (1) shall not apply to any benefit for any month if—

(A) not less than forty of the quarters elapsing before such month are quarters of coverage for the individual on whose wages; and self-employment income such benefit is based,

(11)(A) Paragraph (2) and subparagraphs (A), ( b ), ( c ), and (E) of paragraph (4) shall apply with respect to an individual’s monthly benefits under subsection ( b ), ( c ), (d), (e), (f), (g), or (h) only if such individual meets the residency requirements of this paragraph with respect to those benefits.

( b ) An individual entitled to benefits under subsection ( b ), ( c ), (e), (f), or (g) meets the residency requirements of this paragraph with respect to those benefits only if such individual has resided in the United States, and while so residing bore a spousal relationship to the person on whose wages and self-employment income such entitlement is based, for a total period of not less than 5 years.

 

Subsection ( b ), ( c ), (d), (e), (f), (g), or (h) are wife's, husband's, children's, widow's, widower's, mother's and father's, and parent's benefits, respectively.

 

Section (1) tells you that no benefits are paid after the alien individual has been out of the country for six months

 

Section (4) tells you that Section (1) does not apply IF (A) the wage earner qualifies for SS benefits (40 work-quarters), AND ( B ) If the alien individual has lived in the U.S. for 5 years while married to or widowed from the wage earner.

 

This means, in particular, that Emma (if she's still in the U.S.) should qualify for Bobby's SS survivor's benefits after the age of 60 - even if she moves back to China, and that Jiaying would qualify for mine IF we spend 15 more months in the U.S.

I don't remember exactly when Emma came to the U.S., but it was roughly 5 or 6 years ago.

 

The 5-year residency must be a new feature - I see no mention of it here -

http://www.ssa.gov/O...dbook-1845.html

Edited January 5, 2013 by Randy W (see edit history)

[tsap seui]

Randy, it is easy to do when flipping back and forth for hours studying SSA and IRS code, but you are getting confused and chasing your tail....take a look at post #2.....and reread the link you posted a link to. I found it a few days ago and it is a great lil' SSA pamphlet. Concise and simple...made for anyone to read.

 

Your Payments While You Are Outside the US

 

It is on the SSA website and show you clearly what rules one needs to meet in situations like our wives could be in.

 

The 5 year residency rule is nothing new. You already posted the link to it.

 

I suggest anyone interested to download that Pamphlet. It is a very simple read and negates the need to verify it's words once again from reading hours of SSA code.

 

After meeting those two simple rules our widows would not even need to be greencard holders to get survivor benefits on us. If they let their greencards expire (or aren't US citizens) they would be called Non Resident Aliens by the IRS and would file IRS Form 1040NR with it's schedule NEC showing their tax on their SS survivors benes. And they should be getting SSA-1042S to show their benefit and withheld tax each year.

 

Actually, if they don't understand US tax code or can't find help in China to file taxes in the US they can take the easy way out and forfeit what SSA withholds and still get their benefits. Lose some money there, but if they don't have the knowledge or help they don't have to lose their benefits. Keep it simple......

 

There are 9 treaty countries with the US that our wives could be exempt or waive the tax on SS benefits but China is NOT one of them. They WILL pay some tax on their benefits. It may not be the full 30% but it ain't free. At least the SSA will send our widows SS bene's to them in China, and like I said, they don't even need to be greencard holders once they qualify with the two 5 year rules.

 

There is lots more but I am slowly putting it together using a Chinese woman living in China with no greecard as a specific example.

I'll get the example together and post it sometime later, by itself, so it doesn't get lost in the many postings of... research.

tsap seui

[tsap seui]

On page 11 of the above mentioned SSA pamphlet, YOUR PAYMENTS WHILE YOU ARE OUTSIDE THE us you will read the words....

 

If you are not a U.S. citizen, you must have lived in the United States for at least five years. During those five years, the family relationship on which benefits are based must have existed.

[Randy W]

On page 11 of the above mentioned SSA pamphlet, YOUR PAYMENTS WHILE YOU ARE OUTSIDE THE us you will read the words....

 

If you are not a U.S. citizen, you must have lived in the United States for at least five years. During those five years, the family relationship on which benefits are based must have existed.

 

What threw me off is that there are MANY places on the web where that little condition is left out, including many pages on the IRS site and the Payments Abroad Screening Tool, that all but flat-out say that a non-citizen CAN'T draw benefits after being out of the country for more than six months.

 

For all I knew until I found the example, that condition applied ONLY if you were ALREADY drawing benefits and wanted to CONTINUE.

 

So I went hunting for verification of what that was based on, and finally had to read through that Act Section 202.

 

I had assumed all along that Jiaying would be unable to draw my benefits after my death - I'm not looking forward to spending 15 months in the U.S. I'll still want to verify it when I go to the consulate to start up my own benefits at the end of this year.

[tsap seui]

On page 11 of the above mentioned SSA pamphlet, YOUR PAYMENTS WHILE YOU ARE OUTSIDE THE us you will read the words....

 

If you are not a U.S. citizen, you must have lived in the United States for at least five years. During those five years, the family relationship on which benefits are based must have existed.

 

What threw me off is that there are MANY places on the web where that little condition is left out, including many pages on the IRS site and the Payments Abroad Screening Tool, that all but flat-out say that a non-citizen CAN'T draw benefits after being out of the country for more than six months.

 

For all I knew until I found the example, that condition applied ONLY if you were ALREADY drawing benefits and wanted to CONTINUE.

 

So I went hunting for verification of what that was based on, and finally had to read through that Act Section 202.

 

I had assumed all along that Jiaying would be unable to draw my benefits after my death - I'm not looking forward to spending 15 months in the U.S. I'll still want to verify it when I go to the consulate to start up my own benefits at the end of this year.

 

Simple soluition for ya if you don't want to be in America for the 15 months. Send our wife over here. You would still be married, right. I won't tell if you don't. Or get a travel home and tour the country, or go sit on the beach in Hawaii and photograph the sun rising out of the water each morning.

 

After sitting up till 2am one morning chasing down one detail I became convinced, the writers of the tax and SS codes had all been part of an LSD experiment before they were told to write the code. At least SSA made pamphlets to help the average Joe understand what they are talking about while the IRS has all these means tests, schedules, publication 915's, etc that make you chase around for hours.

 

As far as a widow living in China and collecting survivor benes, I imagine they are gonna make them open an account they can direct deposit the payments to (instead of going to a consulate to get their money) as March, 1 2013 everybody in America is either going to have to have a bank account for direct deposit or they will get sent a credit card called Express Direct which will get reloaded on payday. No more nice looking US Treasury checks will be sent out from SS. Ol' grand ma isn't going to have her check stolen out of her mailbox anymore.

 

Good luck on the 15 months.t

 

sap seui

[Randy W]

Simple soluition for ya if you don't want to be in America for the 15 months. Send our wife over here. You would still be married, right. I won't tell if you don't. Or get a travel home and tour the country, or go sit on the beach in Hawaii and photograph the sun rising out of the water each morning.

 

After sitting up till 2am one morning chasing down one detail I became convinced, the writers of the tax and SS codes had all been part of an LSD experiment before they were told to write the code. At least SSA made pamphlets to help the average Joe understand what they are talking about while the IRS has all these means tests, schedules, publication 915's, etc that make you chase around for hours.

 

As far as a widow living in China and collecting survivor benes, I imagine they are gonna make them open an account they can direct deposit the payments to (instead of going to a consulate to get their money) as March, 1 2013 everybody in America is either going to have to have a bank account for direct deposit or they will get sent a credit card called Express Direct which will get reloaded on payday. No more nice looking US Treasury checks will be sent out from SS. Ol' grand ma isn't going to have her check stolen out of her mailbox anymore.

 

Good luck on the 15 months.t

 

sap seui

 

Yeah, I'm trying to think all that through. I have to think about my long term residence card, which I expect to get in about 2 years, too. The wife is telling me how cheap it's going to be - as long as we rent a cheap apartment in Chinatown, don't eat out, and don't travel. Fat chance. I'm trying to talk her into working while we're there (I'm not sure what kind of work I can get for 15 months beyond Walmart greeter) - and, of course, I WILL want to travel.

 

I basically don't care to be away from home for more than a few weeks.

 

Prescription drugs that aren't prescription in China, TV, coffee, car (should I BUY a car for a year and then re-sell it?).

 

A lot of stuff to think about, but at least a year or two before we would do anything.

 

We already have the U.S. bank account that we can draw from at the ATM - no problem there.

 

I don't really want to do it, but her benefit in one year (AFTER I'm gone) would justify the expense, especially if one of us can work.

Edited January 6, 2013 by Randy W (see edit history)

[tsap seui]

On page 11 of the above mentioned SSA pamphlet, YOUR PAYMENTS WHILE YOU ARE OUTSIDE THE us you will read the words....

 

If you are not a U.S. citizen, you must have lived in the United States for at least five years. During those five years, the family relationship on which benefits are based must have existed.

What threw me off is that there are MANY places on the web where that little condition is left out, including many pages on the IRS site and the Payments Abroad Screening Tool, that all but flat-out say that a non-citizen CAN'T draw benefits after being out of the country for more than six months.

 

For all I knew until I found the example, that condition applied ONLY if you were ALREADY drawing benefits and wanted to CONTINUE.

 

So I went hunting for verification of what that was based on, and finally had to read through that Act Section 202.

 

I had assumed all along that Jiaying would be unable to draw my benefits after my death - I'm not looking forward to spending 15 months in the U.S. I'll still want to verify it when I go to the consulate to start up my own benefits at the end of this year.

We are going to the local SSA office on Jan 31st for an appointment about starting SSDI benes (half of mine) for our son until his is 18. As well I have a list of questions about Wenyan getting survivor benefits. I will ask them about your situation and get an answer for you.

 

As well I will be asking how a Chinese woman living in China would get her survivor benefits, yes direct deposited, but any other lil' attachments they may throw in the mix with if/when they would even need to go to an American consulate for anything (my wife has already had her gut full of American officials, there is nothing she would like less than having to go talk to an American blowhard after I am dead).....I'm going to nail it down for fact and will post it

 

I'll get my "kicked the bucket" list together that I'm making up for Wenyan and post it in the future. As well as, an example Chinese woman recieving SS survivor benes here or there, and their tax consequences for anyone who is concerned. A ton of research and I have a life, besides studying for preparing for death, to attend to so it's gonna be a few months before it gets put together and posted.

 

tsap seui

[Randy W]

We are going to the local SSA office on Jan 31st for an appointment about starting SSDI benes (half of mine) for our son until his is 18. As well I have a list of questions about Wenyan getting survivor benefits. I will ask them about your situation and get an answer for you.

 

As well I will be asking how a Chinese woman living in China would get her survivor benefits, yes direct deposited, but any other lil' attachments they may throw in the mix with if/when they would even need to go to an American consulate for anything (my wife has already had her gut full of American officials, there is nothing she would like less than having to go talk to an American blowhard after I am dead).....I'm going to nail it down for fact and will post it

 

I'll get my "kicked the bucket" list together that I'm making up for Wenyan and post it in the future. As well as, an example Chinese woman recieving SS survivor benes here or there, and their tax consequences for anyone who is concerned. A ton of research and I have a life, besides studying for preparing for death, to attend to so it's gonna be a few months before it gets put together and posted.

 

tsap seui

 

 

Good job! I'd appreciate it!

 

[credzba]

On page 11 of the above mentioned SSA pamphlet, YOUR PAYMENTS WHILE YOU ARE OUTSIDE THE us you will read the words....

 

If you are not a U.S. citizen, you must have lived in the United States for at least five years. During those five years, the family relationship on which benefits are based must have existed.

What threw me off is that there are MANY places on the web where that little condition is left out, including many pages on the IRS site and the Payments Abroad Screening Tool, that all but flat-out say that a non-citizen CAN'T draw benefits after being out of the country for more than six months.

 

For all I knew until I found the example, that condition applied ONLY if you were ALREADY drawing benefits and wanted to CONTINUE.

 

So I went hunting for verification of what that was based on, and finally had to read through that Act Section 202.

 

I had assumed all along that Jiaying would be unable to draw my benefits after my death - I'm not looking forward to spending 15 months in the U.S. I'll still want to verify it when I go to the consulate to start up my own benefits at the end of this year.

We are going to the local SSA office on Jan 31st for an appointment about starting SSDI benes (half of mine) for our son until his is 18. As well I have a list of questions about Wenyan getting survivor benefits. I will ask them about your situation and get an answer for you.

 

As well I will be asking how a Chinese woman living in China would get her survivor benefits, yes direct deposited, but any other lil' attachments they may throw in the mix with if/when they would even need to go to an American consulate for anything (my wife has already had her gut full of American officials, there is nothing she would like less than having to go talk to an American blowhard after I am dead).....I'm going to nail it down for fact and will post it

 

I'll get my "kicked the bucket" list together that I'm making up for Wenyan and post it in the future. As well as, an example Chinese woman recieving SS survivor benes here or there, and their tax consequences for anyone who is concerned. A ton of research and I have a life, besides studying for preparing for death, to attend to so it's gonna be a few months before it gets put together and posted.

 

tsap seui

I am waiting too Tsap!

[Zeng]

If the Veteran is receiving benefits from the VA at 100% and dies. the spouse will recieve a "DIC" payment and CHAMPVA health insurance for life, even if the are separated at the time of death, and it is not the surviving spouse fault for the separation, still will recieve the VA benefits, surviving spouse only needs to be married to Veteran one year to qualifie.

Edited January 8, 2013 by Zeng (see edit history)

[tsap seui]

If the Veteran is receiving benefits from the VA at 100% and dies. the spouse will recieve a "DIC" payment and CHAMPVA health insurance for life, even if the are separated at the time of death, and it is not the surviving spouse fault for the separation, still will recieve the VA benefits, surviving spouse only needs to be married to Veteran one year to qualifie.

 

 

Thanks for posting Zeng. I research everything VA related on a great site called VBN (Veterans Benefits Network). It has different forums for everything....PTSD...AO...DIC and survivors benefits, SS for veterans, you name it it has got it, and is loaded with no nonsense vets and moderators.

 

DIC (Dipendency and Indemnity Compensation) can be paid to a variety of widows of vets. The vet didn't have to have 100% for his widow to get the monthly benefit of $1,195 but if he was rated 100%, died of one of his service connected ailments, was rated at 100% for 8 years as well as married to his wife those same 8 years then she can get an extra $254 per month (called accelerated DIC). As well, certain survivors will get a $2,000 burial allowance for the deceased.

 

I am rated 100% permanant and total and my wife already gets her CHAMPVA, as will our son in 2014, and he will take advantage of the free university benefits.

 

Thanks for bringing this up Zeng. I haven't gotten into the complete VA survivors benes yet but ever questions a veterans could ever ask is covered in one of the forums on VBN. It is mainly staffed by Vietnam era vets but it covers every vet. Nam era vets are the group coming inot retirement agea nd the typical death years so these subjects are very well covered. It's like a one stop shopping for anything connectedwith veterans benefits and their spouses.

 

It took me almost 5 years, same as with my wife's visa, of slogging my way through getting my proper service connected benefits. Then once I got rated at 100% P&T it took almost a year to find all the benefits I was entitled to. The benefits are there, but none of them are laid out easily found. VBN has been a Godsend for many many vets. They don't take any crap over there either, scammers get run off soundly and directly but if you are legitimate you'll never find a more loving brother and sisterhood.

 

Credzba, I'll do this as quickly as I can but I just don't have much time each day to sit in my computer chair. It is a priority to me though, and I will slog through the Dean Koontz type novels the SS jokers and IRS mother flockers wrote. ANyone who every tried to look into their laws and codes knows...it wasn't written for human beings to read. But all the answers are in there.....somewhere.

 

Randy... happy to help.

 

tsap seui

[Urkidding]

OK - Since the passing of one our own I decided to post for a limited time a "guide to estate planning".

 

I found this a very resourceful guide in organizing and helping me put together parts of the puzzle that you need in order to make things easier for your loved ones in case of your demise.

 

This is in PDF format and basically a "Letter of Instructions" to help you with giving your loved ones the proper information that is needed in detail. This is not to be confused with a will but as a guide to putting all your information together in one place

 

It also reads "Like all estate planning documents, it should be reviewed and updated periodically".

 

If you have any other questions, please consult an attorney who can better answer your questions on wills and insurance.

 

Letter of Instructions

[tsap seui]

GREAT!!!! That is just fantastic Andrew. A great guide and format to put so much important information in a logical order for our wives.

 

I quickly made 3 copies and will start to fill in many of the blanks. I can take it and tweek different parts to fit our individual needs.

 

I see I need prepare Wenyan and Fengqi for both life in America, as well, at least for Wenyan, the high probability that she would move back to China into our home over there once Fengqi finishes up his education.

 

I'm heading to the SSA office on the 31st to start my son's SSDI benefits until he is 18. As well I am putting together a list of questions I have about Wenyan getting my SS benefits once she lives in China. I have Randy's question and if anyone else has any suggestions or direct questions about SS and their wives in China, or America please post them. My questions may already overlap with some questions others may have but I'll be happy , and hope others have new questions tht oculd help themselves and the rest of us.....so tell me any questions.

 

I'll do the same thing with VA questions and benefits after I get the SSA information together.

 

Today we talked to a local Veterans Affairs officer about getting the free auto tag with the Disabled Veteran logo and the wheelchair on it....I mentioned trying to assemble VA benefits and a what to do list for my wife. He told me, anything happen to you, you make sure your wife has my contact info, I'll make sure she gets everything she is entitled to. Great!!! but I still am going to research and put that very VA list of "to do's" together for her too.

 

Again Andrew, thank you much for this list of instructions. I guess insurance company's or someone put this together for it's customers.. It's a very valuable guide for our wives, especailly at a time where they would be normally lost.

 

Fer a dadgummed sinner, you is a good man. It seems all my best friends is sinners....lol

 

tsap seui

[Mick]

That is without a doubt the most helpful document I have ever seen dealing with this subject. Thanks so much for posting this. I have most of this info, but it is not organized in such a logical and clear fashion. Again, I really appreciate you posting this, Andrew.

Edited January 19, 2013 by Mick (see edit history)