Traveling with two passports - Chinese

[sock]

Our daughter just got her US passport (she's been considered a Chinese citizen since birth, since she was born in China), and now we have to decide how to proceed.

I know that legally she can't keep both because the Chinese don't allow this. However, she lives in China and she goes to school in China, so giving it up would be a headache.

I know that many people keep both passports secretly, but I've been searching on how to do this. I know that it involves a trip to a third country when traveling between the US and China, but I don't understand the logistics.

For example, if I cross the border by land from Shenzhen to Hong Kong, how does this work? Does she need permission to travel to Hong Kong in her Chinese passport? Will it look strange because her US passport has absolutely nothing in it?

Another question... If we book flights to the US from the mainland, do we actually have to go through customs in the middle country to make this work? For example, can we fly from Beijing to Tokyo and then to the US without going through Japanese customs or do we have to go through customs to make this work.

If anyone has any experience with this, I would appreciate the help. I've tried searching the forum, but I can't find specifics.

Thanks,
Socks

[Randy W]

Her U.S. passport will get her into the U.S. When she tries to exit China with it, however, they may expect to see either an entrance stamp (when she entered the country) or an exit visa.

 

If she books a flight to the U.S., they will expect to see that she has documentation allowing her to enter, even with a layover in another country. This will require that she use her U.S. passport.

 

If she goes to Hong Kong, she will need a visa (a piece of paper NOT in her passport). If she returns the same way after having been to the U.S., the visa will (probably) show her as having been gone longer than allowed.

 

If she tries (while in the U.S.) to get a Chinese visa in her U.S. passport (showing a place of birth in China), they will expect her to submit her Chinese passport - it will be voided. If she tries to return using her Chinese passport, it will not have an exit stamp, unless she had acquired (and used) a U.S. visa.

 

A lot to juggle - if it's even possible.

[Beachey]

 

I know that legally she can't keep both because the Chinese don't allow this. However, she lives in China and she goes to school in China, so giving it up would be a headache.

 

 

Have you confirmed this with the Chinese authorities? Before I went to China, we had a bunch of Chinese nationals in the US training. More than a few ended up having a child while they were here so they are US citizens. In the one case I am most familiar with he was able to get an entrance document for his daughter to go back to China. I thought he told me that in cases of dual citizenship like this, the child doesn't have to decide until they are 18 what citizenship to accept; at least from a Chinese perspective - my understanding of US law is the child will always keep the citizenship unless they specifically renounce it.

 

I am no expert but I think there is an accommodation for this.

[credzba]

Depending on the age of your daughter in may not matter.

China lets you keep both citizenship until 18, and then you have tyo pick on or the other.

 

IF you decide to keep both, the only real risk is China finds out and takes one away, and should would become a "foreigner".

Foreign devils can only own 1 piece of property, and must get a visa to visit China.

 

The way (hypothetically speaking) keeping both citizenship works is you never enter or leave mainland china with a US passport, and you never enter or leave US without a US passport.

To achieve this you use your US passport to fly to a country that allows US citizens to visit easily (Hong Kong is good example).

Then you use your China passport to travel from that country to mainland China and back. In this case the "and back" is the challenge as the Chinese citizen needs to have permission to enter this country with their Chinese passport. Again, Hong Kong comes to mind as Chinese citizens can usually get a travel permit to Hong Kong easily.

 

In all cases you actually enter and leave each country so that you get in and out stamps on your passports.

 

Possible problems ?

1) Can't get Hong Kong permit, so can't get back out of China.

2) Hong Kong wonders why you overstayed your 90 day freebee visa from US to Hong Kong on exit.

3) A visa officer in China sees her US passport, and decides to destroy her China passport for her.

 

In every case, its not a HUGE deal so long as you dont own more property in China than a foreigner is allowed...

Your a US citizen, you use your US passport and fly to USA.

Really only China cares about it, and one day they wont I figure.

 

Taiwan recognizes dual citizenship, and actually stamps BOTH passports for Taiwan/US citizens. It will be GREAT when Taiwan and China have better travel.

 

That is all the rumor I know, good luck whatever you decide.

[sock]

Depending on the age of your daughter in may not matter.

China lets you keep both citizenship until 18, and then you have tyo pick on or the other.

 

I've never seen anything official saying that a child has until the age 18 to keep both passports. I've searched here and people say it, but I can't find any information. Our local PSB says this isn't the case, but they often don't know the law very well, either.

 

I'm confused on when to use each passport when traveling with two passports. This means that if flying through Japan, I have to leave enough time in the middle to clear Japanese customs? And when I enter Japan, I enter with my daughters US passport (and then leave with the same US passport)?

 

Has anyone ever traveled on two passports that can give me specific details?

 

Thanks again!

[Randy W]

China does NOT allow dual citizenship. Your daughter can claim SOLE Chinese citizenship up to the age of 18, at which time it becomes a little more complex.

 

You are looking to skirt the law. This is NOT a good place to be discussing that.

[tsap seui]

...... would become a "foreigner".

Foreign devils can only own 1 piece of property, and must get a visa to visit China.

 

 

 

Let me ask ya Credz....I know this moron whose Chinese wife has spent all of his money buying up properties in China, supposedly ( see, he hasn't been to China himself since Christ left Chicago so he really doesn't even know for sure what she has done with his money)....anyhow, his wife is going to take her citizenship test and if she can pass it.....what will be up with this new "foreign devil" and her "many properties" in China? That's if she really even bought all, or any of them. You forsee any problems?

 

tsap seui

 

Some guys really set themselves up for a great fall

[2mike&jin]

CHop SUEY....

 

Just a view from the CHEAP SEATS.....My JinLin just got her NEW US PASSPORT. I have worked on this issue for over 4 years and I am very uncomfortable trying to circumvent the intent and practice of the Crazy Chinese.

 

It's been posted here how to "almost" get around all the issues by skirting through Hong Kong or other third party places - but in short - each scheme has difficulties and having stood at the ShenZhen border, as well as Macau with my wife - they are very adept at ferreting out "overstays" and avoidance of strict compliance with travel visas, permits and restrictions. I personally won't take a chance on anything immoral, fattening, or against the law. (Sometimes hard to figure out the exact answer -but the avoidance scheme is clearly wrong)

 

I have worked through these issues to some degree - including visa's from the Chinese Consulate here in the US to visit - and it is my "opinion" that the thing you want to preserve is her Chinese ID card. As you know - they can't go to the bathroom or bank without showing the ID card. The passport is only a way to get out of the country - with the US Passport you can get in and out, without incidence - as evidenced by all of us coming and going like drunken soldiers! Again, having lived there (and yes I understand rules and requirements are ever changing) I never saw my wife asked for her passport unless we were traveling to another Country. HK and Macau only require a travel permit (Book looks like a mini passport ) which is completely different/separate from the passport. Both passports and travel permits require a valid ID. At no other time did I see my wife asked for a passport. The only time they asked for the GreenCard is at the Airport on the way out --- of course she doesn't have that any longer. A side note - I believe if one were to "LOSE" their Green Card prior to submitting the N400 for USC - and then after getting the new US passport - and then re-discovering where you lost your GreenCard - one might be able to make all the questionable schemes work -- but I wash't unwilling to hedge the bet - but I think it would work)

Edited September 3, 2012 by 2mike&jin (see edit history)

[tsap seui]

I've always enjoyed your posts Mike. A man of the world, in the true sense. And it's apparent you aren't any game player with the rules. When I read one of your posts I know your subject has been studied to it's limits, is full of interesting tidbits, and spot on with its content.

 

It's a few years too early in our game for my wife to ditch her red passport for a blue one, the time will come for sure what with my SSDI (in a few years to be SS) but I'm just not comfortable with her owning a couple of small homes over yonder and the blue passport stuff. I know your wife owns some large properties so I read with interest your posts on that subject, as well eagerly await this other fellows journey through the Red River Valley as two Americans Time will tell. At least I have a very studied mentor to ask questions of when the time comes for us.

 

I too look at that ID card as the holy grail and key to the doors, just too pre-occupied to think much about the ramifications upon us with it's legal demise (maybe there are none and I am too cautious....shrug). Other than going to see family I can't see lil' rabbit and I doing any traveling in China....although I used to think in those terms, even thought I was gonna be forced, by the Americans, to live over yonder in order to wake up to the wee one's face in the mornings, and was going to make the most of the situation by traveling over hill and dale to the far ends of Chiner. My how things change once the prison gate gets opened...lol

 

We've got an elderly ma and ba and an 11th grader who will one day be will ensconced in the university of his choice with good ol' Uncle footing the bill. Not too long now we'll think about that blue passport, get it in hand and celebrate with dolphins leading our ferry out of the port in Wellington as we head out to cross the Marlboro Sound to the magic of the south island down yonder in the land of the long white cloud. I seem to not have lost anything beyond my youth in yet, another rice patty, anywhere....give me a sheep station to drive through any ol' time as we head to the southern Alps and a final chopper ride up to the snow pack on top of the Able Tasman glacier.

 

Thanks buddy, I greatly enjoy your expertise.

 

tsap seui

[credzba]

CHop SUEY....

 

Just a view from the CHEAP SEATS.....My JinLin just got her NEW US PASSPORT. I have worked on this issue for over 4 years and I am very uncomfortable trying to circumvent the intent and practice of the Crazy Chinese.

 

It's been posted here how to "almost" get around all the issues by skirting through Hong Kong or other third party places - but in short - each scheme has difficulties and having stood at the ShenZhen border, as well as Macau with my wife - they are very adept at ferreting out "overstays" and avoidance of strict compliance with travel visas, permits and restrictions. I personally won't take a chance on anything immoral, fattening, or against the law. (Sometimes hard to figure out the exact answer -but the avoidance scheme is clearly wrong)

 

I have worked through these issues to some degree - including visa's from the Chinese Consulate here in the US to visit - and it is my "opinion" that the thing you want to preserve is her Chinese ID card. As you know - they can't go to the bathroom or bank without showing the ID card. The passport is only a way to get out of the country - with the US Passport you can get in and out, without incidence - as evidenced by all of us coming and going like drunken soldiers! Again, having lived there (and yes I understand rules and requirements are ever changing) I never saw my wife asked for her passport unless we were traveling to another Country. HK and Macau only require a travel permit (Book looks like a mini passport ) which is completely different/separate from the passport. Both passports and travel permits require a valid ID. At no other time did I see my wife asked for a passport. The only time they asked for the GreenCard is at the Airport on the way out --- of course she doesn't have that any longer. A side note - I believe if one were to "LOSE" their Green Card prior to submitting the N400 for USC - and then after getting the new US passport - and then re-discovering where you lost your GreenCard - one might be able to make all the questionable schemes work -- but I wash't unwilling to hedge the bet - but I think it would work)

 

Mike I like the idea that my wife could be a US citizen, and when we go home, still have her Chinese id card.

Is that a reasonable possibility?

 

US citizen with a Chinese id card would seem to be the perfect combination.

[warpedbored]

My wife is a US citizen but has managed to keep her Chinese ID card up to date. That is going to get more difficult as China's national database continues to improve. There may be any manner of schemes to travel on a Chinese passport but one thing overlooked is if you travel to China on a Chinese passport and get into a bind over your US status, the embassy / consulate can't help you.

[2mike&jin]

crdzba; - what warpedbored said......works now like a charm .....and if there are no changes in the future we can get by....but I think it will change, so perhaps conversion of "Tangible Assets" to more "liquid assets" are advisable. The new US IRS reporting requirements make that much harder....but physical gold and silver are still a viable play for a foreign country. (NICE BIG VAULT in Hong Kong). The other play is to get real-estate in Joint ownership if it's not too valuable and you can trust relatives. These are just idle thoughts.....it's a world gone mad...and it's not easy like it used to be.

 

One thing I like about my wife being a USC - besides (estate laws and being able to vote) is that we now have the freedom to go almost anywhere in the world. She "WHO would be Queen" has mentioned when we leave the Lake Tahoe/REno Mountains for winter in Hawaii she want's to route via Vancouver. - she is proud to be able to go places without a visa and restrictions and she informs me that there are actually Chinese people from Hong Kong there....who would've thunk it?

[Randy W]

My wife is a US citizen but has managed to keep her Chinese ID card up to date. That is going to get more difficult as China's national database continues to improve. There may be any manner of schemes to travel on a Chinese passport but one thing overlooked is if you travel to China on a Chinese passport and get into a bind over your US status, the embassy / consulate can't help you.

 

Carl - do you mean that your wife has actually renewed her Chinese ID since becoming an American citizen?

 

What has she done that's kept it "up to date"?