Best way to learn Chinese?

[Mr. Don]

Hi all. My fiancee and I are at the 2 1/2 month point since we filed our I129f. I am going back to China in January to visit her and would like to begin learning Chinese for that visit and for the long-term since my bride to be is Chinese :-) You guys have so much knowledge and experience. Can anyone make a suggestion as to a good resource for learning Chinese? I've looked into Rosetta Stone and Rocket Chinese. They are pricey and I'm not sure how good they are. Any help would be appreciated.

 

thanks all :-)

[dan1984]

Maybe look into a local university and take a class? That would honestly probably be the most effective way, although probably not the most realistic of methods, with time conflicts from everything else in life.

 

I know in Milwaukee though, a couple universities, and also a number community groups and private companies/education centers, offer night and weekend classes. This could also be helpful as the classes would at the same time teach different Chinese customs, culture, history, etc......

[Beachey]

Rosetta Stone is pretty good though live lessons are much better.. I know a couple people who have used http://www.echineselearning.com/ but this is pricey as well though you can do lessons everyday if you want. You Skype with a teacher in Beijing. I never used them because I could not commit the time to make the cost worthwhile.

 

How good is your fiance's English.? Ask her to work with you

[Christian]

It's a combination of several things and you will need discipline. The best way is live classes with a good teacher. On the side you should immerse yourself as much with movies, songs, children books, etc. It's a daily commitment. It is a language that is so different that you need daily reinforcement. If you quit for a week you will see how easy is to forget.

 

Learning the pinyin system and proper sounds is useful to learn basic Chinese to get by but you will not be able to reach an intermediate/advance level. You will need to memorize the characters and this will take you very far, it is hard but worth it.

[TLB]

Look at chinesepod.com -- you can do this pretty cheaply (a few bucks a month) if you're disciplined enough to really work at it every day. You can also pay more and have a phone call lesson if you want. I've done both and they were worth it.

 

I second the idea of a structured class in person if you can find it, or a personal tutor, but the latter would probably be pricey. If you live anywhere near Chinese students, maybe offer to barter English lessons for Chinese.

[Kyle]

I went to a language school. That being said, the school taught grammar, sentence patterns, and vocab; none of it wouldn't of stuck though if I didn't just use it in every day life. Practice w/ your wife and those that you meet on the street. It's a great way to build confidence and solidify your foundation. Pimsleur, is a good way to learn basic vocab and sentence structure if you're flying solo (ie walking the streets of China by yourself).

 

http://www.pimsleur.com/Learn-Mandarin-Chinese

[credzba]

I went to a language school. That being said, the school taught grammar, sentence patterns, and vocab; none of it wouldn't of stuck though if I didn't just use it in every day life. Practice w/ your wife and those that you meet on the street. It's a great way to build confidence and solidify your foundation. Pimsleur, is a good way to learn basic vocab and sentence structure if you're flying solo (ie walking the streets of China by yourself).

 

http://www.pimsleur....andarin-Chinese

 

Given the short time frame, I'd recommend pimsleur.

You can buy their intro (5 cd set) very cheap, and it covers the basics. In one months time your not going to get much further than 5 cd's anyway.

The thing about Pimsleur is you HAVE to repeat the phrases, and actively speak to learn. If you want to learn at home or in the car it works good, but in the office it wouldn't work.

I used Pimsleur 5 cd set, then bought their 30 disk set, then changed to Chinesepod.

 

I like Chinesepod a lot, but it doesn't have the speaking portion that Pimsleur had. I can listen on my bicycle, in the office, or in the car, but to really benefit I have to sit down at home and focus on the material on the web site.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dnoblett]

Yep total immersion, moving where all that is spoken is Mandarin, and then intensively working on it.

[Mr. Don]

Thanks everyone! You are all so helpful - as always!My fiancee's English is good as she is an English teacher. She says when she moves here she wants to teach me and my daughter Chinese but I would like to learn some before that. Thank you all for the suggestions. I will look into everything you have suggested and find what works best for me. Thanks again everyone!!

[Bigguy_33]

When I was living in China, I was having dinner with an exceptionally beautiful woman and another woman, both who were professional and spoke English. Well, the beautiful woman asked if I was learning Chinese since I was there for more then a year. I replied NO and she then said I was a usual lazy American. I don¡¯t know if she was being rude because she was use to getting her way because of her beauty or it was just the normal Chinese¡¯ way of being rude, which I observed numerous times everyday while living in China. In any case, I was insulted and embarrassed by her boorish public comment. It was the straw that broke the camel¡¯s back. I then decided to learn Chinese.

 

I started with a simple traveler¡¯s book ¡°15 Minutes Chinese¡± and ¡°Living Language Chinese¡±. These two books are worthless especially the ¡°Living Language¡± book since it doesn¡¯t have an index in the back for quick word lookup.

 

I then moved on to both Pimsleur and Rosetta Stone. Again, these non Chinese companies, which are trying to teach you Chinese are hopelessly inadequate and a waste of money. Pimsleur and Stone have slick, crafty and clever advertising campaigns but lack any real substance on the language.

 

I then took 2 college semesters of Mandarin which used the ¡°Integrated Chinese¡± textbook series and audio CD¡¯s. This is a great book and audio CD and gets into the nuts and bolts of the Chinese language. If you go this route, I must warn you, it requires a significant time commitment. There were a couple of US men there taking the course since they had found Chinese wives online. They were hopelessly lost after a few weeks. I would say 30 hours per week is needed.

 

I then moved on too having a private tutor who was from Taiwan. Wow she is great and smart and very different then Mainland Chinese women. I then started to gain a better understand and amazement on just how inadequate the Pimsleur and Stone courses are. I also start working nights and weekends at a local Chinese restaurant just to be around people who spoke Chinese. I also teach the owner's two small kids who just started learning English and they teach me Chinese.

 

My favor place for learning Chinese is at the CCTV website. There are several Chinese language series available there. The important difference between the CCTV series and Pimsleur and Stone is that CCTV series are designed and taught by Chinese, not a western company such as Pimsleur and Stone. The old saying ¡°you don¡¯t know what you don¡¯t know¡± is very true in learning and teaching Chinese. One additional point in CCTV language series favor over Pimsleur and Stone is CCTV is FREE !

 

My favor language series at CCTV are:

1 Growing up with Chinese ¨C 100 episode each 15 minutes long videos with lessons scripts in Mandarin, Pinyin and English. All are downloadable.

2) CRI Studio (China Radio International) - Over 300 audio lessons on numerous subjects about 5 minutes long each with scripts. The Chinese woman, Yajie, who is the main teacher, has the sexist radio voice I have ever heard. I just love this series.

 

I also use Audacity to play all my lessons. Audacity is a free audio player and editor. It shows you the voice print just like Stone, but has many more features like slow play back and repeat segment playing.

 

Another Chinese language series is on YouTube is ¡°PeggyTeachesChinese¡±. Peggy is a very engaging young girl from Taiwan and a great teacher. You need to start at the beginning for her series or else you will be lost. She is a sweetheart !

 

Finally, over the years I have seen a number of guys here, go out and buy the Pimsleur and Stone series thinking they will learn Chinese. Then within a few months, they give up and then ask if anyone wants to buy the CD¡¯s from them. It always surprises me how many men go out and find a Chinese wife, then expect her to learn English, while they don¡¯t make any attempt or just a feeble attempt at learning a little Chinese.

 

I don¡¯t have a Chinese wife or girlfriend and don¡¯t have any plans for one in the future. But I study Chinese 2 or 3 hours daily. I am at the library now downloading some additional lessons from CCTV. To learn Chinese takes a substantial amount of effort. The older you are the more you have to study and practice. It¡¯s impossible to explain to you why it is so difficult. After all of this, I am only at the intermediate level now. But it gives me a sense of accomplishment that I never had before when I lived in China. Now, I love the language. I can¡¯t wait until I see that beautiful woman again, so I can tell her off in Chinese.

 

Men in your situation should just learn a few expressions, from CCTV, and let it go at that. Don¡¯t waste your money on those fancy CD¡¯s courses.

[Mr. Don]

This is great information. Mu fiancee is an English teacher so her English is pretty good. Out of respect for her and her culture I want to learn as much Chinese as I can as we eventually plan to move back to China and live there. Thanks again for this info. I will check out the sites you recommend.

 

When I was living in China, I was having dinner with an exceptionally beautiful woman and another woman, both who were professional and spoke English. Well, the beautiful woman asked if I was learning Chinese since I was there for more then a year. I replied NO and she then said I was a usual lazy American. I don¡¯t know if she was being rude because she was use to getting her way because of her beauty or it was just the normal Chinese¡¯ way of being rude, which I observed numerous times everyday while living in China. In any case, I was insulted and embarrassed by her boorish public comment. It was the straw that broke the camel¡¯s back. I then decided to learn Chinese.

 

I started with a simple traveler¡¯s book ¡°15 Minutes Chinese¡± and ¡°Living Language Chinese¡±. These two books are worthless especially the ¡°Living Language¡± book since it doesn¡¯t have an index in the back for quick word lookup.

 

I then moved on to both Pimsleur and Rosetta Stone. Again, these non Chinese companies, which are trying to teach you Chinese are hopelessly inadequate and a waste of money. Pimsleur and Stone have slick, crafty and clever advertising campaigns but lack any real substance on the language.

 

I then took 2 college semesters of Mandarin which used the ¡°Integrated Chinese¡± textbook series and audio CD¡¯s. This is a great book and audio CD and gets into the nuts and bolts of the Chinese language. If you go this route, I must warn you, it requires a significant time commitment. There were a couple of US men there taking the course since they had found Chinese wives online. They were hopelessly lost after a few weeks. I would say 30 hours per week is needed.

 

I then moved on too having a private tutor who was from Taiwan. Wow she is great and smart and very different then Mainland Chinese women. I then started to gain a better understand and amazement on just how inadequate the Pimsleur and Stone courses are. I also start working nights and weekends at a local Chinese restaurant just to be around people who spoke Chinese. I also teach the owner's two small kids who just started learning English and they teach me Chinese.

 

My favor place for learning Chinese is at the CCTV website. There are several Chinese language series available there. The important difference between the CCTV series and Pimsleur and Stone is that CCTV series are designed and taught by Chinese, not a western company such as Pimsleur and Stone. The old saying ¡°you don¡¯t know what you don¡¯t know¡± is very true in learning and teaching Chinese. One additional point in CCTV language series favor over Pimsleur and Stone is CCTV is FREE !

 

My favor language series at CCTV are:

1 Growing up with Chinese ¨C 100 episode each 15 minutes long videos with lessons scripts in Mandarin, Pinyin and English. All are downloadable.

2) CRI Studio (China Radio International) - Over 300 audio lessons on numerous subjects about 5 minutes long each with scripts. The Chinese woman, Yajie, who is the main teacher, has the sexist radio voice I have ever heard. I just love this series.

 

I also use Audacity to play all my lessons. Audacity is a free audio player and editor. It shows you the voice print just like Stone, but has many more features like slow play back and repeat segment playing.

 

Another Chinese language series is on YouTube is ¡°PeggyTeachesChinese¡±. Peggy is a very engaging young girl from Taiwan and a great teacher. You need to start at the beginning for her series or else you will be lost. She is a sweetheart !

 

Finally, over the years I have seen a number of guys here, go out and buy the Pimsleur and Stone series thinking they will learn Chinese. Then within a few months, they give up and then ask if anyone wants to buy the CD¡¯s from them. It always surprises me how many men go out and find a Chinese wife, then expect her to learn English, while they don¡¯t make any attempt or just a feeble attempt at learning a little Chinese.

 

I don¡¯t have a Chinese wife or girlfriend and don¡¯t have any plans for one in the future. But I study Chinese 2 or 3 hours daily. I am at the library now downloading some additional lessons from CCTV. To learn Chinese takes a substantial amount of effort. The older you are the more you have to study and practice. It¡¯s impossible to explain to you why it is so difficult. After all of this, I am only at the intermediate level now. But it gives me a sense of accomplishment that I never had before when I lived in China. Now, I love the language. I can¡¯t wait until I see that beautiful woman again, so I can tell her off in Chinese.

 

Men in your situation should just learn a few expressions, from CCTV, and let it go at that. Don¡¯t waste your money on those fancy CD¡¯s courses.

[NewDay2006]

When I was living in China, I was having dinner with an exceptionally beautiful woman and another woman, both who were professional and spoke English. Well, the beautiful woman asked if I was learning Chinese since I was there for more then a year. I replied NO and she then said I was a usual lazy American. I don¡¯t know if she was being rude because she was use to getting her way because of her beauty or it was just the normal Chinese¡¯ way of being rude, which I observed numerous times everyday while living in China. In any case, I was insulted and embarrassed by her boorish public comment. It was the straw that broke the camel¡¯s back. I then decided to learn Chinese.

 

I started with a simple traveler¡¯s book ¡°15 Minutes Chinese¡± and ¡°Living Language Chinese¡±. These two books are worthless especially the ¡°Living Language¡± book since it doesn¡¯t have an index in the back for quick word lookup.

 

I then moved on to both Pimsleur and Rosetta Stone. Again, these non Chinese companies, which are trying to teach you Chinese are hopelessly inadequate and a waste of money. Pimsleur and Stone have slick, crafty and clever advertising campaigns but lack any real substance on the language.

 

I then took 2 college semesters of Mandarin which used the ¡°Integrated Chinese¡± textbook series and audio CD¡¯s. This is a great book and audio CD and gets into the nuts and bolts of the Chinese language. If you go this route, I must warn you, it requires a significant time commitment. There were a couple of US men there taking the course since they had found Chinese wives online. They were hopelessly lost after a few weeks. I would say 30 hours per week is needed.

 

I then moved on too having a private tutor who was from Taiwan. Wow she is great and smart and very different then Mainland Chinese women. I then started to gain a better understand and amazement on just how inadequate the Pimsleur and Stone courses are. I also start working nights and weekends at a local Chinese restaurant just to be around people who spoke Chinese. I also teach the owner's two small kids who just started learning English and they teach me Chinese.

 

My favor place for learning Chinese is at the CCTV website. There are several Chinese language series available there. The important difference between the CCTV series and Pimsleur and Stone is that CCTV series are designed and taught by Chinese, not a western company such as Pimsleur and Stone. The old saying ¡°you don¡¯t know what you don¡¯t know¡± is very true in learning and teaching Chinese. One additional point in CCTV language series favor over Pimsleur and Stone is CCTV is FREE !

 

My favor language series at CCTV are:

1 Growing up with Chinese ¨C 100 episode each 15 minutes long videos with lessons scripts in Mandarin, Pinyin and English. All are downloadable.

2) CRI Studio (China Radio International) - Over 300 audio lessons on numerous subjects about 5 minutes long each with scripts. The Chinese woman, Yajie, who is the main teacher, has the sexist radio voice I have ever heard. I just love this series.

 

I also use Audacity to play all my lessons. Audacity is a free audio player and editor. It shows you the voice print just like Stone, but has many more features like slow play back and repeat segment playing.

 

Another Chinese language series is on YouTube is ¡°PeggyTeachesChinese¡±. Peggy is a very engaging young girl from Taiwan and a great teacher. You need to start at the beginning for her series or else you will be lost. She is a sweetheart !

 

Finally, over the years I have seen a number of guys here, go out and buy the Pimsleur and Stone series thinking they will learn Chinese. Then within a few months, they give up and then ask if anyone wants to buy the CD¡¯s from them. It always surprises me how many men go out and find a Chinese wife, then expect her to learn English, while they don¡¯t make any attempt or just a feeble attempt at learning a little Chinese.

 

I don¡¯t have a Chinese wife or girlfriend and don¡¯t have any plans for one in the future. But I study Chinese 2 or 3 hours daily. I am at the library now downloading some additional lessons from CCTV. To learn Chinese takes a substantial amount of effort. The older you are the more you have to study and practice. It¡¯s impossible to explain to you why it is so difficult. After all of this, I am only at the intermediate level now. But it gives me a sense of accomplishment that I never had before when I lived in China. Now, I love the language. I can¡¯t wait until I see that beautiful woman again, so I can tell her off in Chinese.

 

Men in your situation should just learn a few expressions, from CCTV, and let it go at that. Don¡¯t waste your money on those fancy CD¡¯s courses.

Very good post Bigguy. I was going to suggest the Pimsluer cd... I don't know a lot of Chinese... mostly just enough to be act like a cute monkey when I speak to a Chinese person. They are impressed but I'm very insecure knowing I can't understand anything they say when in china. You post made me think. Iam a lazy American, maybe that beautiful woman shouldn't have been so bluntm but as some american peope are very blunt so were she, seemingly she was right and it motivated you to an impressive ablility. I won't go on record to say I will commit myself to learn now, but it maybe come a NEw Years Resolution... Thanks for all the information. I'm curious, why were you in China for so long, for work?

[A Mafan]

It's a combination of several things and you will need discipline. The best way is live classes with a good teacher. On the side you should immerse yourself as much with movies, songs, children books, etc. It's a daily commitment. It is a language that is so different that you need daily reinforcement. If you quit for a week you will see how easy is to forget.

 

Learning the pinyin system and proper sounds is useful to learn basic Chinese to get by but you will not be able to reach an intermediate/advance level. You will need to memorize the characters and this will take you very far, it is hard but worth it.

I second this. 100% correct.

 

You need to practice daily.

 

I'm personally convinced that the program you use (pimsleur, rosetta stone, chinese pod) doesn't matter. What you need to do can be described as:

 

Step 1: learn some extremely basic grammar vocabulary so that what you learn makes at least a little sense, i.e., there is a framework for your brain to associate new vocabulary and grammar

 

Step 2a: load up your brain with as much raw material as you can

 

Step 2b: review that raw material as much as possible

 

Step 3: use what you have learned/memorized as much as possible, on a daily basis, in a natural language environment

 

 

I think you satisfy step 1 after you can have an extremely basic conversation for 2 minutes (*not* memorized phrases, and not just "Hello, how are you?"/"I am fine, how are you?")

Simultaneously, you need to work on:

-understanding the basic pinyin system (so you immediately know how to pronounce zi, xi, and zhi, for example, and can hear the difference between ma1 ma2 ma3 and ma4)

-understand the stroke order system so you can pick out a radical from an entire character and look it up in a dictionary (this is less important now with online dictionaries and especially optical character recognition capabilities of smart phones)

But you don't have to master these two things to move to step 2

 

Step 2 is best done by daily drills.

Make flash cards to review when you are stuck waiting in line, on the metro to work, or stuck in non-moving traffic, waiting in line at the bank/DMV/Apple store waiting for the new Apple product.

Your flash cards should be developed according to character frequency, i.e., study the ones you are most likely to encounter first/most. You can find lists of the most common characters here:

 

This site is great:

http://www.yellowbridge.com/chinese/topchars.php

First, they offer some hope that if you just fully learn 250 characters, you will recognize 57%-64% of what you encounter in any situation.

Just 250 characters!!!!

But second, they have a great flashcard/matching game that lets you choose character sets according to their frequency:

http://www.yellowbridge.com/chinese/chinese-memory.php

You need to play a certain character set in pairs: once to learn the pronunciation, once to learn the definition. That's kind of a pain, but it works.

I've never used them, but here is the websites online flashcards:

http://www.yellowbridge.com/chinese/flashcards.php

 

 

Step 3 still requires daily practice!

My favorite way to do it is to listen to Chinese music. You get to hear the words pronounced correctly, in context. I have learned a huge amount of usable vocabulary (especially for relationship issues) from Chinese songs. *

 

But here's the overall problem:

You will gravitate to the language that you have the best communication. You may try to deliberately speak Chinese, but the first time you struggle with a word and slip into English to get your point across, or she slips into English to help you understand her point, you will make it easier to slip into English the next time.

 

So discipline is very, very important. If you decide to communicate only in Chinese on Tuesdays, say, then you must both be disciplined enough to make that stick.

 

And when you can, immerse yourself in a Chinese environment. When you travel to China with her, get out and talk to street vendors on your own...or at the very least, have her let you take the lead in some communications, like ordering food or haggling a price.

 

Fluency is difficult, and takes effort...but is well worth it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*two other helpful methods include watching television serials and reading Chinese novels.

Both require determination and discipline.

Even being fully fluent, I struggle with the first few pages of a book, or the first few episodes of a serial, because I haven't developed the context enough. By the time you are several pages into a book, you tend to encounter key vocabulary several times...it becomes almost a specific jargon that you can get the gist of. By the time you are several episodes into a serial, you get where the story is going and can predict better what they might say or do...plus you get used to that actors speaking style.

 

So don't get discouraged if you start out taking several hours to read one paragraph because you are stopping to look up characters so much. And don't get discouraged if you take multiple hours to watch one episode of a serial because you have to pause and replay so many times to get what they are saying. The efforts will build on themselves and the speed will pick up. Plus, you will learn quite a bit about Chinese culture from television serials. Many of the best attempt to explain/explore issues facing a specific socio-economic group, like the upper-middle-class college graduates born between 1980-1990, or the same but those born between 1970-1980 (from the two you learn that like the US' Baby Boomers, Generation X, Generation Y, etc, China has the 70s kids, 80s kids, 90s kids: they separate them by decade, and there are specific societal reasons for that, and different life expectations and problems for each decade), or the problems of finding housing in the city during the housing boom.

No doubt there will soon be a serial out explaining/exploring the bursting of the housing bubble.

[Guest ExChinaExpat]

It's damned hard learning Chinese. That's a simple fact. If you're over 40, it's going to be even harder. I've been living and working in China for over 3 1/2 years now, and for the last two years I've been taking Chinese classes on Monday, and Thursday every week. My Chinese teacher is working on her Masters degree at a local university, and her major is teaching Chinese to foreigners. Her English is pretty good and we both learn from each other during class. Classes are two hours, and she comes directly to my office. There are two other foreigners in my office who meet with her after my class. They are both younger than me, and doing much better than I at learning the language. I am learning though despite my frustration.

 

As far as immersion goes, it would be difficult to be more immersed than I. I work in a company with over 500 people and only three foreigners; two from America, and one from Pakistan. I've been through all the basics, but after two years, I would probably be considered an advanced beginner. Sometimes I just want to quit the class because it feels like I forget more than I remember, but I keep going because I really do want to learn how to speak a conversation.

 

I tried learning Chinese characters for a few months, and filled two small practice books. You just have to write them over, and over, and over again. I am told that if one can master 1200-1500 characters, they can read and understand about 80% of the average Chinese newspaper. I quit doing the characters though, because it was slowing down the process of learning how to speak and understand the language. I will go back to working with the characters again, but I know that process is a tough road to hoe.

 

Anyone who wants to learn Chinese needs to first decide what they want to learn. In reality, chances are very slim that anyone who starts will ever become proficient enough to carry on a conversation with another Chinese person. After my two year investment, I can order food in restaurants, take a taxi, buy tickets and food, but speaking to a non-English speaking Chinese person is choppy at best. So, if you want to learn, start slow. Learn the basics.

 

Because pronunciation is they absolute key to the language, you must work with someone who will correct your tones. I'm getting better with my pronunciation, but I still get puzzled looks from people, and must repeat words and phrases often to get them to understand. A book really won't help you much. In my opinion, if you really want to learn, then you should hire a teacher. I suggest you hire a professional rather than using a spouse.

 

You can also find Chinese teachers who will work with you online, via video. I've not tried it, but have looked at a few sites. There are some certified teachers who will provide custom classes for a very reasonable price. One site is:

 

http://www.italki.com/

 

Click the link for language teachers and look at the number of sessions they have completed. Also, look at the feedback from their students. To begin, you will need to register on the site. Payment is made to the teacher using what they call "ITC". That's just code for site, as you first pay the italki site, and then payment can be transferred to the teacher.

 

If you're truly serious about learning, I strongly suggest only working with a certified Chinese language teacher. The language is very complex, and must be properly taught so that you can learn effectively.

Edited December 31, 2011 by JiangsuExpat (see edit history)

[Guest ExChinaExpat]

You can also find Chinese teachers who will work with you online, via video. I've not tried it, but have looked at a few sites. There are some certified teachers who will provide custom classes for a very reasonable price. One site is:

 

http://www.italki.com/

 

Click the link for language teachers and look at the number of sessions they have completed. Also, look at the feedback from their students. To begin, you will need to register on the site. Payment is made to the teacher using what they call "ITC". That's just code for site, as you first pay the italki site, and then payment can be transferred to the teacher.

 

Here's a link to italki for professional online Chinese teachers:

 

http://www.italki.com/teachers/1-1-Chinese-English-CN-0-999999-0-0-1.htm

 

If you're truly serious about learning, I strongly suggest only working with a certified Chinese language teacher. The language is very complex, and must be properly taught so that you can learn effectively.