CR1 Visa Denied - No Second Chance - What To Do?

[Palladin]

3. Strong evidences to directly debunk the non-bona fide relationship finding. Specifically excertion from

our long internet chat logs where my wife showed a hesitation to move to the USA, and I was the one persuading her everything will be OK and she will like the life in the USA. At a point I emailed the entire log of 1000+ pages and I am not sure if they get it. But it demonstrate the point that the logs are original, not faked. I have no reason to fake it myself

And here is the problem, IMO: You submitted evidence to support their point of view; that she is hesitant and doesn't want to move to the US is damaging to the relationship and the intent of immigration. Her last Q&A answer was "I am willing to marry him"... That is enough in most VO's eyes to see the relationship as YOUR attempt to get a lady to the US. She appears to have little interest by her answer and then you submitted chat logs proving it for the VO... You said translation is not 100% but this is YOUR own words explaining your wife's answer.

 

You took it a wrong way. A girl married a guy for a variety of reasons. Uncle Sam is not in a position to judge constitute true love and what is not true love in a romantic relationship, with one exception that is is the green card the main drive behind the relationship. If the green card is not the main motivation, then for the purpose of immigration law the relationship is bona fide, visa versa. For example if a young foreign man marries an old and ugly rich American woman for her money, people may find the relationship disturbing but Uncle Sam would not jump in to try to make a morale judgment, as long as the green card was not the main motive. Once again they are not try to make a morale judgment, but just try to make sure people don't try to circumvent the immigration process.

 

Whether the two parties in a relationship knows every detail of each other may help to determine whether the relationship is bona fide. But it is not completely reliable. A girl in pursuit of a green card would be so highly motivated that she make sure that she memorizes everything like a computer and pass the most scrutinizing interview questioning, but yet it should still be a sham marriage. On the other side, two people who truely fall in love at first sight, and they barely stayed together for a few weeks, why would she know the name of a formal classmate of mine that I have not meet for 30 years, like say. It would be ridiculous. The whole interview is a joke. If you hope to expose some doubt through 10 minutes of questioning, maybe that will work. But if you hope to make a final determination whether a relationship is bona fide or not, in a mere 10 minutes of questioning, that is simply not possible and ridiculous. Not even God can do that.

 

The issue is not that they make mistakes. The issue is they give virtualy no opportunity for the petitioner/applicant to clear away the doubts and make their cases, before sending the documents back to the USCIS, at least typically. I hope that is not the case for us.

 

The Consulate did respond much more positively once they acknowledged having received my appeal documents. That is a positive thing. They normally would not even take so much as a small piece of paper into the files, once a white slip denial is issued. Let's see what happens next.

Edited December 5, 2011 by Palladin (see edit history)

[david_dawei]

You took it a wrong way. A girl married a guy for a variety of reasons. Uncle Sam is not in a position to judge constitute true love and what is not true love in a romantic relationship, with one exception that is is the green card the main drive behind the relationship. If the green card is not the main motivation, then for the purpose of immigration law the relationship is bona fide, visa versa. For example if a young foreign man marries an old and ugly rich American woman for her money, people may find the relationship disturbing but Uncle Sam would not jump in to try to make a morale judgment, as long as the green card was not the main motive. Once again they are not try to make a morale judgment, but just try to make sure people don't try to circumvent the immigration process.

I am talking about how a VO interprets what they see and HEAR in front of them. If one were able to track how a particular consulate reacts to certain situations, patterns, and outcomes, you would then be able to have a glimpse into how this plays out. That is what CFL does by focusing on GUZ; it tracks the GUZ interviews with some detail over many years.

 

They don't care if you marry and cannot stop that. They can only decide on issuing a visa for entry to the US. We all file for a visa and have the burden of proof to show why they should issue it. I can see why a VO would take exception to what they saw and heard. If you cannot then that is ok; but there are MANY factors in your interview which point to trouble. You have been able to identify some of them but are not seeing some others.

 

 

Whether the two parties in a relationship knows every detail of each other may help to determine whether the relationship is bona fide. But it is not completely reliable. A girl in pursuit of a green card would be so highly motivated that she make sure that she memorizes everything like a computer and pass the most scrutinizing interview questioning, but yet it should still be a sham marriage. On the other side, two people who truely fall in love at first sight, and they barely stayed together for a few weeks, why would she know the name of a formal classmate of mine that I have not meet for 30 years, like say. It would be ridiculous. The whole interview is a joke. If you hope to expose some doubt through 10 minutes of questioning, maybe that will work. But if you hope to make a final determination whether a relationship is bona fide or not, in a mere 10 minutes of questioning, that is simply not possible and ridiculous. Not even God can do that.

I don't disgree with what your essentially saying; we have all said this for years... but the bottom line is that a VO MUST use some means of questioning to assist in their determination. Based on the NOIR letters I have seen their is a very specific pattern of proof they used to say why they issued a 'white'. In every case it was because she could not answer questions concerning their relationship. I take this as therefore one of the most important tools they use, whether I agree with it or not.

 

The issue is not that they make mistakes. The issue is they give virtualy no opportunity for the petitioner/applicant to clear away the doubts and make their cases, before sending the documents back to the USCIS, at least typically. I hope that is not the case for us.

Again... this is what they do and have done for the many years I have been on CFL... So one has to work with the known parameters.

 

 

The Consulate did respond much more positively once they acknowledged having received my appeal documents. That is a positive thing. They normally would not even take so much as a small piece of paper into the files, once a white slip denial is issued. Let's see what happens next. -- Quote

 

That all sounds good but I have no idea which person response to what emails on any given day. You get the same range of treatment at DOS. It is always a better feeling to get a nicer, more positive response; it can help take the edge off. If they realized this they would employ it more for this reason alone. Yes, let's see what happens and maybe see they keep the case at GUZ for further processing and review.

Edited December 5, 2011 by david_dawei (see edit history)

[foobaz123]

The issue is not that they make mistakes. The issue is they give virtualy no opportunity for the petitioner/applicant to clear away the doubts and make their cases, before sending the documents back to the USCIS, at least typically. I hope that is not the case for us.

 

This right here is probably the single greatest frustration for everyone going through this process. One minor to medium mistake in the interview, or a document or something, and you're looking at months to years of delays all for something that probably could be straightened out in 10 minutes or less if they would just talk to the petitioner.

 

I'd love to see the refusal rates for countries where they have both the beneficiary and the petitioner in the interview and compare them against GUZ's.

 

That said, despite any statements about them improving the process, this isn't going to change and they're going to keep doing things the way they always have because there is nothing to make them change.

[Palladin]

The issue is not that they make mistakes. The issue is they give virtualy no opportunity for the petitioner/applicant to clear away the doubts and make their cases, before sending the documents back to the USCIS, at least typically. I hope that is not the case for us.

 

This right here is probably the single greatest frustration for everyone going through this process. One minor to medium mistake in the interview, or a document or something, and you're looking at months to years of delays all for something that probably could be straightened out in 10 minutes or less if they would just talk to the petitioner.

 

Exactly! One random visa officer rushed to one mistaken decision after 5 minutes of lousy interview questioning, and then they hang you up for one or two years to correct one simple and clear mistake made in 5 minutes, without giving you much opportunity to clarify thing, and they take many officers at many different department reviewing your files for many months at a time, all just because one damn wrong judgment by one visa officer at an odd minute?

 

Mean while the real sham marriages get to walk free because they have one lucky minute where the officer never asked more than 3 trivial questions. The system is just so terribly broken.

 

Unfortunately that's what is happening every day at US overseas Consulates.

[Palladin]

Latest email inquiry to Guangzhou IV (using their web interface) got very prompt response in a few hours. They did not say much but that my wife's case is still under AP and they will notify her using EMS once the AP is done.

 

That sounds very encouraging. They wouldn't be using EMS to notify the applicant if at the end of AP they are to send the case back to USCIS. I think they probably would use plain postal letter to notify you of any case return, if they bother at all. Most likely there will be no communication till US petitioner receive a letter from USCIS.

 

I don't think I can get a more explicit response confirming that "no we don't send your wife's case back to USCIS", and "yes your wife will get a new interview and we will grant her a visa". They can't do it. They can't explicitly promise an AP outcome, before it is even finished. In principle they need to leave all possible AP outcome open. Telling me they will use an EMS mail, is about as explicit as they could get, in providing a specific response.

[tsap seui]

Latest email inquiry to Guangzhou IV (using their web interface) got very prompt response in a few hours. They did not say much but that my wife's case is still under AP and they will notify her using EMS once the AP is done.

 

That sounds very encouraging. They wouldn't be using EMS to notify the applicant if at the end of AP they are to send the case back to USCIS. I think they probably would use plain postal letter to notify you of any case return, if they bother at all. Most likely there will be no communication till US petitioner receive a letter from USCIS.

 

I don't think I can get a more explicit response confirming that "no we don't send your wife's case back to USCIS", and "yes your wife will get a new interview and we will grant her a visa". They can't do it. They can't explicitly promise an AP outcome, before it is even finished. In principle they need to leave all possible AP outcome open. Telling me they will use an EMS mail, is about as explicit as they could get, in providing a specific response.

From what you're saying they are telling you, it's apparent that the case has gone from "denied" to "AP processing", which would have been a blue slip at the interview.

 

I'm hopeful you guys make it through this mess and get approved. Sounds like you woke someone up on what was a flimsy case against your wife and they stopped the denial and said, lets look at this case some more. That is rare as hell with Guangzhou but you did it. Good luck to you both.

 

tsap seui