Back in China

[david_dawei]

thanks for all the comments. It is truly interesting stuff and I know not without some risk but I've never been the shy type when it comes to trying something in china. And my back is getting worse every year but I am really resistant to surgery since it changes you inside and some things cannot be changed back.

 

It is Day 3 since he straightened my spine and it's feels a little better but still incredibly sore. Lulu checks it several times a day to see if there is any shift back or if the swelling is reducing, which it is.

 

We will go do an xray in about 2 days to see what it looks like. I will also see the man once more before we head on the train for GUZ. In GUZ, we will stay at the Yang's place so they can assist with getting us to where we need to go. I will give updates as I can.

 

Mick, you brought up an interesting point about Qigong. I thought at first that maybe this guy purposely does not talk in Qigong terms but I suspected he had this skill. He only talks in terms of the bone, blood, tendons and muscle and disavows anything in regards to Qigong. The one similarity that he does perform is that he will first scan a person with his hand. He says he is only 'reading' the blood flow and tendon positions. I do believe that this is his focus and not Qi, although I did get him to admit that on some level you can't separate the blood and Qi sensing. I was willing to drop the topic with this admission.

[david_dawei]

Nothing short of unbelievable so far. After my first adjustment I was bedridden a few days from swelling in the spinal areas he manipulated but we went to get xrays and the spinal surgeons at the hospital said this was not possible. One doctor refused to talk thinking we were trying to trick him. The 'head' of the department had seen me before so he could not argue about the fact that their hospital too xrays just 8 months ago and then just that day and the proof was in the picture. He said it is not possible to do but if it can be done, this is going in the right direction.

 

I will say that it was quite painful for a few days and the 'bone man' sensed that I could withstand a lot of pain and apparently went further the first day then maybe normally he would do. But he did not really alert us to what to expect; just experience whatever you feel but rest. He saw the xray results of his first treatment and looked like a toothless kid in a candy store... he was just beside himself at the results of a simple straightening; my L4-L5 even reduced their slippage and that is what caused the local hospital to disbelieve this.

 

On my second treatment I could tell he was going 'full monty'. He seems to calibrate himself to the patient's body; based on what he performs vs what the results are he know what he can achieve on the second time. He also did not tell us that the first treatment required him to get my bone to move back to a position the body really does not want... ergo, all the pain. But he now saw the promised land and decided to go 'all in' on the second treatment.

 

In fact, I only understood all this after the second treatment but when it started I felt he was applying more pressure than before. I knew he was going deeper and expecting more in return. The treatments go in rounds of applying and resting; applying and resting. At a certain point I said that I really had no pain. With one of the most endearing toothless grins I can never forget, his face beamed with a look like the birth of heaven and earth. There were no words needed; we had reached the promised land

 

He said that there is a place the bone really does not like to be at but it is unavoidable in the first treatment but if he can get past it in the next one then the pain will almost disappear. He told me to just lay for a while and later I was asked my feeling. In fact, he told my wife what I should expect but nobody told me. I told them the crown of my head was full of 'dancing needles'; not painful but like electric shocks... that toothless grin got even wider than ever. It was like he was saying, "welcome back"...

 

We walked to a restaurant that night and for the first time in 8 years my legs were not numb on walking. My back felt not just straight but truly different. I will say late at night I felt a small shift. I am not sure if I lost some of what he set or not but I am too swollen to get xrays and we need to go to GUZ tomorrow. So I'll wait about two weeks for our return to get xrays but most of today has been like a liberation.

 

Here is the moral of the story that I am never quite get over: To both doctors in the east and west this is not just beyond training, this is beyond any medical explanation; "It is not possible" , as the first spinal surgeon told us. Here is what I walked (literally) away with. Doctors tend to trust themselves in terms of what they can effect or accomplish but the overriding feeling I got from this 'bone man' was that he was trusting my body. He somehow knows how to calibrate to what each patient can tolerate, endure, and effect; and then he shows the body just what it can do given a second chance. While doctors will line up in the millions to disavow such practices, this toothless saint does this day-in and day-out like eating and sleeping... it is NATURAL.

[bergamot]

Thank you very much for writing it ,it is so wonderful in reading every word you wrote here

[Robert S.]

I'll be looking forward to hearing more about your awesome complete makeover.

[Dennis143]

David, quit efing around and come home and get your surgery. You're only prolonging the outcome. No hands-on healer's going to undo your spinal issue. Take care of yourself my friend.

[david_dawei]

It is not quite a hands-on healer like he simply "lays on hands and heals"; since those guys don't leave your body swollen from their treatment; the guy is part chiropractor and part healer in a way. It's just hard to explain it unless you see and experience it... but he is physically moving each vertebra; that is why there is swelling afterwards. The spine responds in this way and he leaves marks where he is working. My shoulder has a bit of a stuck movement to it and he wretched it around for a while digging deeper and deeper to get to the tendon he said is running a little off the path... my shoulder is yellow from the deep bruising.

 

I hope to try and upload a xray picture of my spine before and after later when I am back in Fushun and it will allow some to see for themselves what is going on. He wants my back to 'hold' for a month before he sees me again but then said I need a year to let my body re-adjust to the change.

 

I have really no reason to pursue surgery right now and this has shown me even more reason why.

 

For now, we made it through a 30 train ride to GUZ and staying at the Yang's. Got some advice here and preparing accordingly. Tomorrow is the medical exam; then tuesday is document turn-in; wednesday the interview.

 

I would say the only info which caught us off guard was the recommendation to have pictures of the applicant and the child as the child was growing up. Not only do we not have this but it seems my wife feels she never really had any taken anyways. We will hope that they don't raise any question of proving the relationship but if they do we're prepared to show:

1. Birth certificate shows her as mom

2. Divorce papers shows the court stated the mom will care for the child

3. ID cards both show same address

4. Pictures of my 8 trips showing us three together

 

If this is not enough then they need to start questioning every single applicant... I personally think it's part of the "cover every last angle" thinking which is good to have but you roll with what you have.

[amberjack1234]

It is not quite a hands-on healer like he simply "lays on hands and heals"; since those guys don't leave your body swollen from their treatment; the guy is part chiropractor and part healer in a way. It's just hard to explain it unless you see and experience it... but he is physically moving each vertebra; that is why there is swelling afterwards. The spine responds in this way and he leaves marks where he is working. My shoulder has a bit of a stuck movement to it and he wretched it around for a while digging deeper and deeper to get to the tendon he said is running a little off the path... my shoulder is yellow from the deep bruising.

 

I hope to try and upload a xray picture of my spine before and after later when I am back in Fushun and it will allow some to see for themselves what is going on. He wants my back to 'hold' for a month before he sees me again but then said I need a year to let my body re-adjust to the change.

 

I have really no reason to pursue surgery right now and this has shown me even more reason why.

 

For now, we made it through a 30 train ride to GUZ and staying at the Yang's. Got some advice here and preparing accordingly. Tomorrow is the medical exam; then tuesday is document turn-in; wednesday the interview.

 

I would say the only info which caught us off guard was the recommendation to have pictures of the applicant and the child as the child was growing up. Not only do we not have this but it seems my wife feels she never really had any taken anyways. We will hope that they don't raise any question of proving the relationship but if they do we're prepared to show:

1. Birth certificate shows her as mom

2. Divorce papers shows the court stated the mom will care for the child

3. ID cards both show same address

4. Pictures of my 8 trips showing us three together

 

If this is not enough then they need to start questioning every single applicant... I personally think it's part of the "cover every last angle" thinking which is good to have but you roll with what you have.

David I think I remember that several applicants were ask to provide DNA test for mother and child. I don't know if that was posted here or on another site.

 

Larry

[david_dawei]

David I think I remember that several applicants were ask to provide DNA test for mother and child. I don't know if that was posted here or on another site.

Yes, I recall requests for DNA tests but don't recall a pattern. There ought to be some basis for the suspicion like they could not provide an original birth certificate or could not show something which reflects they were together.

 

Questioning a daughter by blood vs questioning was someone was living with you over the years is different. Pictures are not really proof of much except one took pictures; anyone can take a picture at any time really. The daughter is 18 as well so who she was with in the past should not matter here... only if the mom is truly the mom. I think birth and court documents ought to be proof enough of a mother-daughter blood relationship, is my point. Thanks.

Edited October 16, 2011 by david_dawei (see edit history)

[amberjack1234]

David I think I remember that several applicants were ask to provide DNA test for mother and child. I don't know if that was posted here or on another site.

Yes, I recall requests for DNA tests but don't recall a pattern. There ought to be some basis for the suspicion like they could not provide an original birth certificate or could not show something which reflects they were together.

 

Questioning a daughter by blood vs questioning was someone was living with you over the years is different. Pictures are not really proof of much except one took pictures; anyone can take a picture at any time really. The daughter is 18 as well so who she was with in the past should not matter here... only if the mom is truly the mom. I think birth and court documents ought to be proof enough of a mother-daughter blood relationship, is my point. Thanks.

I agree David but it is something to keep in mind in case they set in on this issue. You and she could offer to do the DNA test if it does become an issue with them. That should certainly clear up any questions/concerns that they might have. Just a thought and another tool. I do wish you and the two of them the best.

 

Larry

[chilton747]

David I think I remember that several applicants were ask to provide DNA test for mother and child. I don't know if that was posted here or on another site.

Yes, I recall requests for DNA tests but don't recall a pattern. There ought to be some basis for the suspicion like they could not provide an original birth certificate or could not show something which reflects they were together.

 

Questioning a daughter by blood vs questioning was someone was living with you over the years is different. Pictures are not really proof of much except one took pictures; anyone can take a picture at any time really. The daughter is 18 as well so who she was with in the past should not matter here... only if the mom is truly the mom. I think birth and court documents ought to be proof enough of a mother-daughter blood relationship, is my point. Thanks.

IMO, I think it is only questioned if something else raises a red flag. I was thinking about this topic with Haihua's son coming up. Shouldn't be any red flags with them so we will see.

[dan1984]

Hey David,

 

Just wanted to check in and ask, how's the back been?

 

It is not quite a hands-on healer like he simply "lays on hands and heals"; since those guys don't leave your body swollen from their treatment; the guy is part chiropractor and part healer in a way. It's just hard to explain it unless you see and experience it... but he is physically moving each vertebra; that is why there is swelling afterwards. The spine responds in this way and he leaves marks where he is working. My shoulder has a bit of a stuck movement to it and he wretched it around for a while digging deeper and deeper to get to the tendon he said is running a little off the path... my shoulder is yellow from the deep bruising.

 

I hope to try and upload a xray picture of my spine before and after later when I am back in Fushun and it will allow some to see for themselves what is going on. He wants my back to 'hold' for a month before he sees me again but then said I need a year to let my body re-adjust to the change.

 

I have really no reason to pursue surgery right now and this has shown me even more reason why.

 

For now, we made it through a 30 train ride to GUZ and staying at the Yang's. Got some advice here and preparing accordingly. Tomorrow is the medical exam; then tuesday is document turn-in; wednesday the interview.

 

I would say the only info which caught us off guard was the recommendation to have pictures of the applicant and the child as the child was growing up. Not only do we not have this but it seems my wife feels she never really had any taken anyways. We will hope that they don't raise any question of proving the relationship but if they do we're prepared to show:

1. Birth certificate shows her as mom

2. Divorce papers shows the court stated the mom will care for the child

3. ID cards both show same address

4. Pictures of my 8 trips showing us three together

 

If this is not enough then they need to start questioning every single applicant... I personally think it's part of the "cover every last angle" thinking which is good to have but you roll with what you have.

[david_dawei]

Hey David,

 

Just wanted to check in and ask, how's the back been?

Hey Dan, thanks for asking.

 

IT's a tale of two issues:

1. Back dislocation

2. Tailbone twist

 

Everyone I have ever seen previously has focused on the prior issue since it is a well known condition. But through this experience I have found that the second issue seems to be the location of pain. What's unclear is whether #1 caused or contributes to #2. All I can say is that when he untwists the tailbone, my pain disappears. The problem is that it won't hold longer than 5 days.

 

He was able to effect some decompression and alignment to my back in general (confirmed with xrays) but the time I had available was not enough to explore further re-setting. I am not sure he can completely reset it after all since the #1 condition has an additional complication if the dislocation goes a certain point; the opposite side of the vertebrae which stabilizes the bones breaks. The last xrays show this break fairly clearly. Maybe if I had 6+ months in china we could explore how far we could move the dislocation back.

 

The spinal surgeons in Fushun reviewed the before and after and admitted there was reversal, but they would not buy into any idea of a twisted tailbone. They said there is no way to confirm that. We told them all they had to do was put their hand on my tailbone and you can feel it (even I can feel it with my hand) but they brushed it off. So I hope to follow up in the US to see if I can get someone to take #2 more seriously and explore it. Although my chiropractor has the SAME back condition, he also brushed off the tailbone idea. Seems nobody wants to talk about something they have no experience with. Strange that 'back' specialist don't want to explore such a thing...

[dan1984]

Hmmm, well, although you're still fighting the battle and have yet to find a long-term solution, I hope slowly but surely (and the quicker the better), answers will come.

 

Please also continue to share your battle, when appropriate, as it may open doors for others with similar problems as well.

 

Take care, and best of luck!

 

Hey David,

 

Just wanted to check in and ask, how's the back been?

Hey Dan, thanks for asking.

 

IT's a tale of two issues:

1. Back dislocation

2. Tailbone twist

 

Everyone I have ever seen previously has focused on the prior issue since it is a well known condition. But through this experience I have found that the second issue seems to be the location of pain. What's unclear is whether #1 caused or contributes to #2. All I can say is that when he untwists the tailbone, my pain disappears. The problem is that it won't hold longer than 5 days.

 

He was able to effect some decompression and alignment to my back in general (confirmed with xrays) but the time I had available was not enough to explore further re-setting. I am not sure he can completely reset it after all since the #1 condition has an additional complication if the dislocation goes a certain point; the opposite side of the vertebrae which stabilizes the bones breaks. The last xrays show this break fairly clearly. Maybe if I had 6+ months in china we could explore how far we could move the dislocation back.

 

The spinal surgeons in Fushun reviewed the before and after and admitted there was reversal, but they would not buy into any idea of a twisted tailbone. They said there is no way to confirm that. We told them all they had to do was put their hand on my tailbone and you can feel it (even I can feel it with my hand) but they brushed it off. So I hope to follow up in the US to see if I can get someone to take #2 more seriously and explore it. Although my chiropractor has the SAME back condition, he also brushed off the tailbone idea. Seems nobody wants to talk about something they have no experience with. Strange that 'back' specialist don't want to explore such a thing...

[Robert S.]

Have you had the hot mud treatment?