Frustration

[Wayne2010]

Hi Everyone,

 

I am very frustrated and wanted to post to see if anyone has had a similar experience. Hopefully someone can share information that would be useful in my future endeavors.

 

In Sept of 2008 I met a lady on the internet. After many months of correspondence we decided to meet, and if we felt we wanted to establish a long relationship we would wed.

 

History: First contact: Sept 2008

First trip to China: Mar 2009 A dream come true

Married: Mar 2009 Wonderful Lady

I130 Filed: Apr 2009

I129F Filed: May 2009

I129F Interview: Jan 2010 Denied, Not Bona Fide

I130 Interview: Feb 2010 Denied, same reason

2nd Trip to China: Feb 2010 Visited Guangzhou Consulate

USCIS NOA ` Apr 2010

Senator Cornyn Inquiry#1 Jul 2010

Senator Cornyn Inquiry #2 Oct 2010 30-45 days should receive response

3rd trip to China Nov 2010 Vacation to Sanya/Family dinner

Ombudsman Request Dec 2010

Senator Cornyn Response#3 Dec 2010 30-45 days should receive response

 

There are so many things I would like to discuss with anyone interested. I have an open heart yearning to learn and share. My objective, of course, is the same as so many I have read about on this forum. I want my wife to join me for the American Dream.

[Scott@Hong]

Welcome to CFL

 

There are far smarter people on this board then me so I am sure they will chime in with some suggestions.

 

I think the biggest thing you need to overcome as you progress through the appeals process is meeting and marrying on the first trip.

If you re-file or write appeal you will need to search everything about your case and try to determine as many red flags on your case as possible and then address each one.

 

Its a long long process with Guangzhou, and many here have taken years to complete, but don't give up eventually you will win through.

[tkgert]

Wayne, I also agree with Scott that getting married on your first trip and short relationship was your red flag.There are many guys here that have seen and heard it all, that will give you some help.Hang in there and you will get her here. Good Luck,, TK

[Wayne2010]

Thanks for taking the time to respond. Yes, I was very naive not to think past the paperwork. Hindsight has proven to be a dear teacher. Now I have retained an attorney to help with the NOIR once received. We both have taken several steps toward making the next interview be a positive experience. Unfortunately at the moment it seems the clock is ticking and our lives are wasting away in the wait for ¡°Uncle Sam¡±.

[chilton747]

Unfortunately at the moment it seems the clock is ticking and our lives are wasting away in the wait for ¡°Uncle Sam¡±.

 

There are others here that have waited and are still waiting. It took me 4 years. No need to think time is wasting away as there are many things you two can do to learn more about each other. I thought I knew my wife well but when she got here it was like starting all over again. I am sure others will chime in and tell you the same thing I am telling you.

 

Be patient and learn each other. You two have known each other such a short time.

 

Good luck!!!

[credzba]

You have learned the hard way that being naive is equivalent to not a bonafied relationship.

But really, lets look at this as an outsider.

You didn't put any of this in your post, but just for interest sake, lets see how close you fit the pattern?

 

1) You are between late 40s and early 60s.

2) Your wife is between 10 and 15 years younger than you.

3) She earns less than 5,000 yuan per month in China.

4) She has 1 child, and that child is a daughter.

5) She was divorced (before you married her).

6) You met on an internet site.

7) Her english is not very good, and perhaps your letters to her were translated by a third party (with or without your knowledge).

8) Your Chinese is not very good.

9) Your opinion is that even with the language issues, you communicate quite well over the internet using either machine translation or some other way.

10) You only traveled once to meet her and marry due to financial limits, yet you know you will have enough to support her and yourself when she gets here.

11) Oh, is she from Naning or Fujian region.

 

Whats the grade, do you fall into 50% or more of the "standard" scenarios?

Edited December 13, 2010 by credzba (see edit history)

[dnoblett]

You have learned the hard way that being naive is equivalent to not a bonafied relationship.

But really, lets look at this as an outsider.

You didn't put any of this in your post, but just for interest sake, lets see how close you fit the pattern?

 

1) You are between late 40s and early 60s.

2) Your wife is between 10 and 15 years younger than you.

3) She earns less than 5,000 yuan per month in China.

4) She has 1 child, and that child is a daughter.

5) She was divorced (before you married her).

6) You met on an internet site.

7) Her english is not very good, and perhaps your letters to her were translated by a third party (with or without your knowledge).

8) Your Chinese is not very good.

9) Your opinion is that even with the language issues, you communicate quite well over the internet using either machine translation or some other way.

10) You only traveled once to meet her and marry due to financial limits, yet you know you will have enough to support her and yourself when she gets here.

11) Oh, is she from Naning region.

 

Whats the grade, do you fall into 50% or more of the "standard" scenarios?

As for #11 How about Fujian. Naning is much less fraught with denials.

[credzba]

You have learned the hard way that being naive is equivalent to not a bonafied relationship.

But really, lets look at this as an outsider.

You didn't put any of this in your post, but just for interest sake, lets see how close you fit the pattern?

 

1) You are between late 40s and early 60s.

2) Your wife is between 10 and 15 years younger than you.

3) She earns less than 5,000 yuan per month in China.

4) She has 1 child, and that child is a daughter.

5) She was divorced (before you married her).

6) You met on an internet site.

7) Her english is not very good, and perhaps your letters to her were translated by a third party (with or without your knowledge).

8) Your Chinese is not very good.

9) Your opinion is that even with the language issues, you communicate quite well over the internet using either machine translation or some other way.

10) You only traveled once to meet her and marry due to financial limits, yet you know you will have enough to support her and yourself when she gets here.

11) Oh, is she from Naning region.

 

Whats the grade, do you fall into 50% or more of the "standard" scenarios?

As for #11 How about Fujian. Naning is much less fraught with denials.

 

I edited my post .. but really I wasn't trying to point to fraud, just to try to show how people on this forum generally DO fall into the "std" mold.

I may be totally wrong, and we will see, but from the 3 years I've hung out here, and a little on VJ, I see the trend, I am certain with what the VOs see, THEY see a trend, I just wish I could explain it to the new people as they start.

[Randy W]

You have learned the hard way that being naive is equivalent to not a bonafied relationship.

But really, lets look at this as an outsider.

You didn't put any of this in your post, but just for interest sake, lets see how close you fit the pattern?

 

1) You are between late 40s and early 60s.

2) Your wife is between 10 and 15 years younger than you.

3) She earns less than 5,000 yuan per month in China.

4) She has 1 child, and that child is a daughter.

5) She was divorced (before you married her).

6) You met on an internet site.

7) Her english is not very good, and perhaps your letters to her were translated by a third party (with or without your knowledge).

8) Your Chinese is not very good.

9) Your opinion is that even with the language issues, you communicate quite well over the internet using either machine translation or some other way.

10) You only traveled once to meet her and marry due to financial limits, yet you know you will have enough to support her and yourself when she gets here.

11) Oh, is she from Naning or Fujian region.

 

Whats the grade, do you fall into 50% or more of the "standard" scenarios?

 

Your list is too generic to really convey any meaning. For example, #3 would apply to just about everyone in China (my salary is only 4500 RMB per month). Ten years doesn't seem to be a real age difference at all - especially considering that some are 20 years and more.

 

If you're trying to develop a cross-sections of the typical Chinese/American immigrating relationship, that's fine - but almost every one of us would fit at least 50% of these.

[Wayne2010]

My many thanks to my ¡°new¡± friends here on CandleForLove. I am very happy tonight because I have just spent the last hour in IM chat with my wife from Chongqing. I even had a chance to say hello to her Father in Chinese.

 

There is so much to share, but first I must try to answer ¡°credzba¡±. I must admit you have many things correct. I am 62 years old, have been married before, and my new wife will turn 48 next month. She has a son who recently graduated from a college in Beijing. He seems to be a very intelligent and considerate person. I am proud he has accepted his mother marrying an American. His toast during the family dinner on my last visit to China was very moving, as well as that of my wife¡¯s father.

 

And, yes, we met on the internet. Yes, her friend¡¯s daughter is an English major who has been helping her and I through these times. Xiao Hua¡¯s English has improved drastically over the past two years and we are able to communicate (mostly) by ourselves, which was not the case when she took the interview.

 

During the past two years I have gone through doubtful times, however; I think the last visit with her was delightful and reassured my feelings. Although this is not my first rodeo, there is much to learn. As I am well aware, no marriage is perfect. It takes time to learn each other, and accept life as it is. The most important part is to share the desire to be together, and what life has to bring.

 

I do have one question for ¡°chilton747¡± which may be helpful. You said you have waited for 4 years. If you would, please explain why it took so long, and the sequence of events?

[chilton747]

 

 

I do have one question for ¡°chilton747¡± which may be helpful. You said you have waited for 4 years. If you would, please explain why it took so long, and the sequence of events?

 

Certainly.........you can look at my timeline in my signature...it pretty much lays it out. I met her and then a few short months we went for the K1. As you can see in my timeline, we were denied. Shortly after we were married but I took my time filing for the CR1. As luck would have it, the USCIS decided to make us wait even longer.

 

But it all worked out as my wife came to the USA with an IR-1 visa. No more Uncle Sam for us unless she wants to go for citizenship.

 

I thought I had the record here but my cuzin Tsap Seui has got me beat now.

[Wayne2010]

I guess tonight I seem to be long winded, but I have some additional comments/thoughts (opinions¡­.)

 

The forms filed with the USCIS never asked how many times we had met before marriage, or whether her English or my Chinese was adequate to communicate. The fact is that we met the criteria to marry, including my ability for financial support. She was divorced, did not have a criminal record, nor carry a communicable disease.

 

As for me, I think it irrelevant that she spoke little English, and I spoke little Chinese. From information I have gathered and read, it is not a requirement by law that your spouse be able to speak English for visa eligibility. The fact she was granted an interview (twice) means that the USCIS thought we both meet the requirements of the US laws.

 

Futhermore, if being able to vocally communicate in Chinese or English are requirements, why is it not located on an applicable form? What if she had ¡°no¡± tongue? And what if I were deaf? Could we not communicate by other methods? The American way is ¡°innocent¡± until proven guilty, however; by the rules of the American Consulate in Guangzhou you are guilty by default. How many people¡¯s lives have been affected by such irrational thinking? In all due respect, I feel the VO should furnish substance to decline a request after USCIS approval.

 

A few days ago I read on this site about one person¡¯s spouse who had been denied a visa. Later he found that 3 VO¡¯s had been dismissed for taking bribes in exchange for granting a visa. This is not merely a story, it happened to us. Again, being naive, I chose to ignore it as being ridiculous, but now, as another respondent admitted, I would gladly pay the $5000USD to have my wife in my arms.

 

So I ask, why is it that the system gives the ¡°absolute¡± authority to the VO to determine a valid relationship? Where is the oversight?

[chilton747]

The forms you filled out for the USCIS did ask you for proof of the relationship. If you did not have much then GUZ was largely responsible for determining if your relationship was real at the time of the interview. So many Chinese defraud the system with fake marriages and misrepresentation to their new spouse that GUZ has to be the judge. Apparently you did not send much relationship evidence with your I-130 and I-129F.

[Scott@Hong]

Wayne unfortunately the Department of States system is just very backwards when it comes to the Visa Officers at consulates around the world.

 

The problem is the hiring process for Foriegn Service Officers, as anyone can apply by taking the Foriegn Service Officer test, completing a medical exam some background checks etc.

Once you are hired to become a Foriegn Service Officer you are required regardless of the career path you have chosen be it diplomat or management to serve as a Visa adjucation officer for a period of time.

 

The problem is you have your most inexperienced employee making the ultimate decision on bonafide or non bonafide.

 

Any person who thinks about their own work place, and sits back for a moment and says, "Lets have the new people make that important decision" would laugh at the thought. I know in my business I would not allow someone who just got hired to make the decision on hiring and firing of other employees, life changing decisions. However, that is exactly what DOS does, they have brand new employees with little or no experience making life changing decisions and often times making the wrong decisions.

 

Keep fighting, you will be together with your wife, its just a matter of time, patience and persistance.

[Wayne2010]

Good Morning Scott, and thanks for the feedback. As a small business owner I totally agree with your assessment. And as big government would have it, once the decision is made it is nearly impossible to get it reversed.

 

I find it interesting that when I went to Guangzhou to try to have the case review before the return to USCIS I initially spoke with a VO. I looked at his badge, called him by name and demanded to speak to Karen, his supervisor. He turned around put his badge in his shirt pocket (as if I did not see) and told me that was my right. Of course it was all for naught, but at least they heard my plea. The point is that a person behaving in a professional manor making just decisions would not fear who they were or what they had done.

 

It is obvious there will be a long wait before my wife and I can be together. Although I am not a patient person, giving up is not an option.