USA no longer -The Land of Opportunity?

[david_dawei]

my job is secure and doing very well. And my politics almost nonexistent. So in my case, you'll have to find another basis for my 'observations' which you may take as a position.

[tsap seui]

.I certainly don't have any politics, hell, I don't even know if a Dem or Republican is in office, nor do I watch TV news, listen to talk radio, or read newspaters. But, I am alive, awake, and see what is going on around me.

 

And, I am no danged doomsayer about America, nor in praise of, or fearful of the Chinese.

 

I learned long ago there are TWO sides of an issue. The two sides I see here are....

 

1. This problem was made by Americans to Americans

2. It is up to us Americans to make it right for ourselves.

 

I detest pointing fingers at others when I either did something harmful to myself, or when we as a nation let our country do something harmful to ourselves.

 

About China, I look at what I see when I go to China, and hear from my wife.

 

What I see in China is quite simply their prices have gone completely thru the roof for EVERYTHING. Food, clothing, housing, you name it, it's freakin' expensive for the average Chinese, which is probably well over three quarters of the population (my estimated stats, not CNN's).

 

And I don't see any of the Chinese folks I know that have gotten rich overnight, or even had their salaries go up. All I see is every commodity or service they could hope to buy or use has gone up in price drastically.

 

As I said in my initial post, I am somewhere in the middle of not anti-America, nor pro Chinese. I didn't really see where anyone was claiming doom on America in this thread, but I did see people saying it was up to us to clean up our own house and get back on track.

 

I compare myself to Mongo in the movie Blazing Saddles when he said, "Mongo is but pawn in game of life." I can't change what has happened, or what will happen.

 

Oh yeah, I did get a $29,000 raise from Uncle Sam back in late 2008, and it's ongoing until the day I die, or he quits printing money....whichever one comes first.

 

I remain a patriotic American, but that don't mean my eyes is closed, and it certainly don't mean I am gonna hightail it to China for "economic" purposes. Shucks, I've been kickin' dirt clods long enough to know that what goes up, must come down. I may well wind up living in China because the American government forces my wife and son to live there, but I certainly won't be going over there with the thought that their bubble ain't gonna pop, either. There ain't no geographical cure in this mess.

 

No reason for any of us to point fingers at each other in this here thread, we're all brothers in the same boat...can someone please pass me a peanut butter and jelly sammich?

 

tsap seui

[shenzhen]

I will leave two observations/experiences:

 

1. Since coming back to the USA my wife has opened my eyes up to many things that I took for granted while I was here and in China. There are many positive reasons for living in this country. I expected her to only just "be ok" with living here and wanting to go back to China soon. Instead she has embraced the USA and all of it's freedoms.

 

2. Last Saturday afternoon while walking around New Orleans I went to rest by sitting on the steps of one of the Federal courthouse building in the downtown area. Much to my surprise I was told that I could not sit on said steps because they were federal property and I was trespassing. This "people exist to serve the govt thinking" scares me more than any loss of jobs to foreign countries, new health care plan, etc.

[amberjack1234]

Well I do agree with some of what you have said and do not agree with some.

 

1. Infant mortality rate. Does that include the number of fetuses aborted because they are girls or the ones that have been born and let die or killed. My mother-in-law was a doctor so I have been told about this practice many times. On a list of 195 countries the US places in at #33. Not exactly the highest infant mortality rate in the world. This was on Wikipedia and was referenced by 1. World Infant Mortality Rates in 2008 Population Reference Bureau 2. United Nations World Population Prospects: 2006 revision - Table A.18, A.19 3. CIA World Factbook.

 

 

2. Longevity: We place at 38 on Wikipedia¡¯s list. I suspect that number would be placed much higher on the list if we were not so prosperous and can the foods that are all bad for us such as Hardy¡¯s McDonalds and Burger King etc. We have become lazy as a result of this lifestyle too. Not enough exercise.

 

3. HIV: Wrong here. 88% of all the people living with AIDS live in Africa and 92% of the deaths from AIDS live in Africa. Google it.

 

4. Highest crime rate: It depends on which site you check. I got anywhere from #1 to #24 so who do you trust? I can¡¯t be sure but I¡¯ll bet the US is up there pretty high.

 

5. Economic, housing, and auto crisis: You are right about that one alright. Greedy big industry and banks are to blame here.

 

6. Our enemies around the world seem to increase: You are certainly right about this. I think that we all know the answer to this one. I don¡¯t even want to say the P word and anything about weapons of mass destruction here.

 

7. We want the lowest price and the highest profits: You are right on this one. Joe the plumber wants the lowest prices that he can get while Mr. big CEO wants the highest profits he can get so that his company will pay him 85 to 110 million a year like Mark Hurd and Larry Ellison.

 

8. Housing: People in America tend to want to out do the relatives, neighbors and friends so we have a tendency to purchase homes that we really can¡¯t afford and then later get into trouble if our income decreases. Say if both wife and husband buys a house and depend on each ones salary to pay the mortgage and one loses their job. Some just can not manage money either. I saw on national TV within the last year where a couple in North Carolina, not far from where I live, had a combined income of $114,000. They had two children, both teenagers. Their home mortgage was $1,400 per month and they could not make the payments and was scheduled to lose their home, Something wrong here?

 

9. We'll spend money even when we should not: You have got that right too. I use to fit into this category until I married a Chinese woman 10 years ago. Even I have money now.

 

10. China has been pursuing alternate energy for many years: True and I also think that the US has been pursuing this as well but the cost of producing alternative energy has always exceed the present method of producing energy. The key here is producing energy economically.

 

11. Our domestic and global focuses are different: You are right about that. Look at the health care bill that was just passed here. Whether you or I agree with it or not it does focus on providing quality health care for the one¡¯s that can not afford it. Even if at a greater cost to most of us working class folks. Like I said whether you or I agree or not. China¡¯s agenda is simply put become number one at all cost and no matter what we have to do to do it. Have you breathed any good ole Chinese air in Shanghai or Beijing lately or drunk any water without boiling it lately?

I am not saying that we are lily white here as we certainly have had our issue in this area as well but we have addressed them pretty well and cleaned thing up fairly well too. China on the other hand is full speed ahead and damn the pollution and it¡¯s citizens. At what cost to the citizen's health?

 

So you see I don't disagree with everything you said as you thought just some of it.

 

 

Larry

[amberjack1234]

.I certainly don't have any politics, hell, I don't even know if a Dem or Republican is in office, nor do I watch TV news, listen to talk radio, or read newspaters. But, I am alive, awake, and see what is going on around me.

 

And, I am no danged doomsayer about America, nor in praise of, or fearful of the Chinese.

 

I learned long ago there are TWO sides of an issue. The two sides I see here are....

 

1. This problem was made by Americans to Americans

2. It is up to us Americans to make it right for ourselves.

 

I detest pointing fingers at others when I either did something harmful to myself, or when we as a nation let our country do something harmful to ourselves.

 

About China, I look at what I see when I go to China, and hear from my wife.

 

What I see in China is quite simply their prices have gone completely thru the roof for EVERYTHING. Food, clothing, housing, you name it, it's freakin' expensive for the average Chinese, which is probably well over three quarters of the population (my estimated stats, not CNN's).

 

And I don't see any of the Chinese folks I know that have gotten rich overnight, or even had their salaries go up. All I see is every commodity or service they could hope to buy or use has gone up in price drastically.

 

As I said in my initial post, I am somewhere in the middle of not anti-America, nor pro Chinese. I didn't really see where anyone was claiming doom on America in this thread, but I did see people saying it was up to us to clean up our own house and get back on track.

 

I compare myself to Mongo in the movie Blazing Saddles when he said, "Mongo is but pawn in game of life." I can't change what has happened, or what will happen.

 

Oh yeah, I did get a $29,000 raise from Uncle Sam back in late 2008, and it's ongoing until the day I die, or he quits printing money....whichever one comes first.

 

I remain a patriotic American, but that don't mean my eyes is closed, and it certainly don't mean I am gonna hightail it to China for "economic" purposes. Shucks, I've been kickin' dirt clods long enough to know that what goes up, must come down. I may well wind up living in China because the American government forces my wife and son to live there, but I certainly won't be going over there with the thought that their bubble ain't gonna pop, either. There ain't no geographical cure in this mess.

 

No reason for any of us to point fingers at each other in this here thread, we're all brothers in the same boat...can someone please pass me a peanut butter and jelly sammich?

 

tsap seui

I can agree with that brother man. We got ourselves in it and we are and will get ourselves out of it too.

 

I still am puzzled by your plight with your wife. If there was something that I could do I would do it. Evidently somebody somewhere has something against you or your little lady. We may never know what it is.

 

Larry

Edited October 18, 2010 by amberjack1234 (see edit history)

[tsap seui]

I can agree with that brother man. We got ourselves in it and we are and will get ourselves out of it too.

 

I still am puzzled by your plight with your wife. If there was something that I could do I would do it. Evidently somebody somewhere has something against you or your little lady. We may never know what it is.

 

Larry

 

Yep, we'll dig ourselves out of this mess.

 

Larry, I thank you for your thoughts and offer of help.

 

I have to say, I honestly do not think anyone within the government has anything against lil' rabbit or I.

 

The USCIS reaffirmed her in record time (3 days from the time it got into their hands) so if there is a grudge against us, it certainly isn't within the USCIS,and they saw what the DOS had to say about us (whatever that was), yet they still reaffirmed us both.

 

I simply feel the ball got dropped by an insensitive uncaring government agency (the DOS), they delayed even sending our case back to America, and to me, it's just a matter of bad luck with a bunch of yahoos in Guangzhou. Nothing more.

 

I have no secrets, or worries about anything I've done in the past and if there were any issues with the little rabbit, the USCIS would have sent me a letter asking for me to rebut the DOS's charges.....they just reafirmed us without any letter sent to me other that the I-797 form telling us the case was being sent back to the consulate in Guangzhou.

 

I do appreaciate your concern and compassion. With luck I'll live out my days with my family in America, I'd rather be here at home with them working towards a better America, than there in China watching their bubble collapse, which it will one day. That's just how things work, even Mongo can't change how things work today, yesterday, and from the time man climbed down out of the trees and started a culture.

 

tsap seui

[Mike and Yan]

I will become somewhat personal here!In 3-4 months time I and my wife will move into a brand new apartment.1700 sqft.All paid for.Monthly footing will be approx 20 USD.50 yards from the Front Entrance of the building is a hospital.Behind that is wilderness.My Medical Insurance gives me access to all facilities!Cost of that?.2200USD a year!

 

Where is this possible???.Nanning,Guangxi,P R China!!!

 

Is this an Opportunity?.Of course it is since I'll retire in 2 years time!!

First ..my wife is from Nanning,Guangxi,P R China!!! and I agree...I met her there and left with a strong sense of opportunity but also a sense that there are serious problems there.

 

Second...Me too. retire in China. The buck goes a lot farther even at 5.5. And I can't exactly be sure why it has a retirement advantage.

 

Third...IMO I am tired of people saying America is going down hill. They have no vision. America has been going down hill since someone complained about the price of tea. yeah we are going down hill but it's nothing new, it's just new to the whiners. America is forever going to be a land of opportunity even if you can't stand the current administration.

 

So balance the good of China with one hand and the good of America on the other hand. Where would you like to raise your son/daughter? It's a close call, but I sense China on the horizon.

[warpedbored]

There are two parts to this. One is economic growth isn't as high as it was in 60s Back then it was a little over 4%, now it's something like 1.7%. These things are cyclical though and rise and fall. The other part is families want more now and it takes two wage earners to get it. Back then we didn't live in 2000 SF homes. Most homes in those days were 1200 SF or smaller. We also didn't have two or more cars. My mother drove my father to work and picked him up. We didn't take European vacations or stay in 5 star hotels. We drove everywhere we took a vacation and camping out was the preferred method of lodging. A lot of families could get by on a one earner household if they didn't want so much stuff. The divorce rate is higher now. Back then it was 1 in 5, now it's 1 in 2. A lot of that could be there isn't as much stigma tied to divorce as there was then. Also women would stay in abusive relationships because the men earned all the money. In many ways we are better off now. Women are accepted in the work place, we have better medical technology and more information readily available.

[knloregon]

"It has very little to do with the current administration and everything to do with American arrogance." which is what worries me the most, Don, because the facts, as many have shown here, are that Americans, with their entitlement mentality are unprepared to compete, eye to eye ---- as in the ever more pervasive global economy--- it will be for our children with our children's counterparts in China. We are already seeing the resentment of 'off shore' (ie., China) job loss play out in the political ads of both parties. I fear for the future of our Chinese families in America, as the skill and enterprise of the Chinese people becomes more pronounced, against the American entitlement mentality. Similar resentment was responsible for the first Chinese Exclusion Act in the 1880's --- and as then, the liberal press leads the way--- (NYT's Paul Klugman).

 

Tsap---- great example of Interstate highway 270 ~ ! For most of my teen years, up until I left Maryland for the west coast, (about 1964 -- 1976) 270 was under construction, Even when I returned to visit, (into the early 1990's) it was STILL under construction. Here in Oregon, we have a similar highway segment (going city center west) called the Sunset Highway. When I arrived in Portland in 1978, it was under construction, and remained so for the next 1/4 century. My wife just shakes her head.. even though China is in construction upheaval across the country, infrastructure projects get completed in months and years, not decades. Case in point: GZ subway (add your choice: BZ SH etc.) PLUS XC bullet trains....

[tsap seui]

"It has very little to do with the current administration and everything to do with American arrogance." which is what worries me the most, Don, because the facts, as many have shown here, are that Americans, with their entitlement mentality are unprepared to compete, eye to eye ---- as in the ever more pervasive global economy--- it will be for our children with our children's counterparts in China. We are already seeing the resentment of 'off shore' (ie., China) job loss play out in the political ads of both parties. I fear for the future of our Chinese families in America, as the skill and enterprise of the Chinese people becomes more pronounced, against the American entitlement mentality. Similar resentment was responsible for the first Chinese Exclusion Act in the 1880's --- and as then, the liberal press leads the way--- (NYT's Paul Klugman).

 

Tsap---- great example of Interstate highway 270 ~ ! For most of my teen years, up until I left Maryland for the west coast, (about 1964 -- 1976) 270 was under construction, Even when I returned to visit, (into the early 1990's) it was STILL under construction. Here in Oregon, we have a similar highway segment (going city center west) called the Sunset Highway. When I arrived in Portland in 1978, it was under construction, and remained so for the next 1/4 century. My wife just shakes her head.. even though China is in construction upheaval across the country, infrastructure projects get completed in months and years, not decades. Case in point: GZ subway (add your choice: BZ SH etc.) PLUS XC bullet trains....

 

Kim, back when I ran my carpet cleaning business out of Damascus, Merryland if the jobs were south towards Warshington or Northern Va, I would tell the crews, "sorry fellers, you are going to have to go sit in the long strings of snot (cars as I called them) on the parking lot known as I-270, so, you can get to the other parking lot know as "four ninety five".

 

Luckily that business made wheelbarrows of money cause I often paid my crews tons of money each week in overtime, just sitting....those two highways are what sent me up to live an hour and a half away in rural Pennsyltucky....what a crummy place to have to live and work. I can say that after 39 years of living in that rat's cage.

 

Money good

Quality of life.....ZERO

 

tsap seui

[MoonCarolCafe]

Anyone remember when mom stayed home and raised family and dad went to work - and there was money put into savings for a rainy day? One didn't need to count pennies or put off major purchases like a new pair of shoes for starting school?

 

While I wholeheartedly agree with your position that the current administration is not to blame for the peaking (all great civilizations eventually shuffle off the stage of history, don't blame a POTUS halfway through his first term for this) I'll argue that it's quite possible for a family to survive on one income provided they are willing to maintain the same standard of living experienced in the 50's/60's. A smallish home (1 bathroom, simple kitchen), no internet, no cellphones, single television (no cable!), wife spending the time to repair clothing instead of tossing socks that have holes, forgo exotic foods imported from far off places, etc.

[True Blue]

There are two parts to this. One is economic growth isn't as high as it was in 60s Back then it was a little over 4%, now it's something like 1.7%. These things are cyclical though and rise and fall. The other part is families want more now and it takes two wage earners to get it. Back then we didn't live in 2000 SF homes. Most homes in those days were 1200 SF or smaller. We also didn't have two or more cars. My mother drove my father to work and picked him up. We didn't take European vacations or stay in 5 star hotels. We drove everywhere we took a vacation and camping out was the preferred method of lodging. A lot of families could get by on a one earner household if they didn't want so much stuff. The divorce rate is higher now. Back then it was 1 in 5, now it's 1 in 2. A lot of that could be there isn't as much stigma tied to divorce as there was then. Also women would stay in abusive relationships because the men earned all the money. In many ways we are better off now. Women are accepted in the work place, we have better medical technology and more information readily available.

 

You make a great point. I grew up as the only child in an 800 sq ft house with 1 car shared by my Mom and Dad. If she wanted to use the car, Mom drove Dad to work and picked him up later. In times in my life I have owned a home as large as 3,200 sq ft plus owned 3 cars at one time. I have now "downsized" to a 1900 sq ft home half of which sits empty but it was the smallest home available in the area I wanted t live in. My car is 10 years old and I planned to buy a second car once Lao Po learns to drive but there really is no reason we could not share it. I pay $90 a month for cable tv and internet but surely could accomplish this more inexpensively. Perhaps a bit off topic here so look for my post in the appropriate forum here but has anyone ditched cable for Net flicks or some computer TV?

 

You make a good point - we could and should tighten our belts more. A simpler life is also generally a less stressful life.

[amberjack1234]

I think that you guys have finally got it. A lot of our problems have nothing to do with politics what so ever although many will lay the blame there as a scapegoat.

 

Americans have just got to downsize their standard of loving somewhat. I have a friend that lives in a 3500 sq ft home. Just he and his wife. I want to ask him so bad what it cost to heat and cool that elephant.

 

Larry

[chilton747]

I think that you guys have finally got it. A lot of our problems have nothing to do with politics what so ever although many will lay the blame there as a scapegoat.

 

Americans have just got to downsize their standard of loving somewhat. I have a friend that lives in a 3500 sq ft home. Just he and his wife. I want to ask him so bad what it cost to heat and cool that elephant.

 

Larry

 

Yeah I thought about downsizing my cost of loving too..........certainly it would be cheaper.

[amberjack1234]

I think that you guys have finally got it. A lot of our problems have nothing to do with politics what so ever although many will lay the blame there as a scapegoat.

 

Americans have just got to downsize their standard of loving somewhat. I have a friend that lives in a 3500 sq ft home. Just he and his wife. I want to ask him so bad what it cost to heat and cool that elephant.

 

Larry

 

Yeah I thought about downsizing my cost of loving too..........certainly it would be cheaper.

:lol: That too Charles. That might be the hardest part.

 

Larry